UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Terryb808]

If you do the arithmetic it's clear that while JC may be a plausible suspect (albeit recognised as such 14 years too late), he's only one of hundreds of similar local sex offenders.

We know that there are about 4,000 rape convictions a year, give or take. It goes up and down a bit, but it's roughly that. If we take the UK population in 1986 as being 56 million, with London's share as 8 million, then London had 1 in 7 of the populace. It follows that London probably had 1 in 7 of the 4,000 convicted for rape, as well. That's six hundred a year in London. If you conservatively assume that SJL's patch of London was only a third of it, that still means about two hundred men in her area being convicted of rape every year.

That's not the total number of dangerous men, however. The two hundred is just a minimum subset of the real number, whose size we don't know, of men local to SJL and capable of rape. The two hundred are just the individuals who got caught that year having done something so bad they were convicted. The figure leaves out all those caught but who got off, or where the charges were dropped, or who were never even reported, or who if they were, were not caught until years later - if then. It could be into the thousands.

The Scrubs itself holds about 1.25% of the UK prison population. If there are 4,000 rape convictions a year, then probably there are about the same number released every year (as otherwise the prisons would eventually fill up). 1.25% of 4,000 is 50 a year, i.e. at that time the Scrubs must have taken in and released about one such a week.

But Wandsworth and Brixton together hold twice as many lags as the Scrubs, and they are nearer to where SJL worked than the Scrubs. So they were presumably releasing another two a week between them. Between all three prisons, they must have released 100 rapists so far that year.

My question then is why SJL's killer can't have been any of those released from Brixton or Wandsworth. After JC was pointed out, his ex-con status was brought up, but there were 100 other ex-rapists released in the area and AFAIK nobody's eliminated any of them.

Great summary, on this basis (and I agree Wandsworth is a walk from the PoW) we should be looking at releases from Wandsworth (at least) in the run up to SJL’s disappearance.
Concentrate on those who remained in London or had links to the area.
There’s almost a myth surrounding JC and his ability to charm his way into a woman’s life.
Is this fact or just more of his buӣsh@t?
I’ve know people with this mythical ability and it just defies logic.
So, question, do we thing JC has this ability or not.
The dating video might help you all decide.

 

[RichardKimble]

I can't help but think the killer was known to SJL, there's a percentage (not sure of the figure) that murders are committed by a known assailant, the complete disappearance without a trace lends this to me at least.

 

[Terryb808]

I can't help but think the killer was known to SJL, there's a percentage (not sure of the figure) that murders are committed by a known assailant, the complete disappearance without a trace lends this to me at least.

With SJL there’s no shortage of people known to her who she may have been happily unaware of their true character.
This list doesn’t include close friends and those deemed to be within the Putney set.
If the perpetrator is within this later list then they’ve been hiding in plain sight for well over 30 years.

 

[RichardKimble]

With SJL there’s no shortage of people known to her who she may have been happily unaware of their true character.
This list doesn’t include close friends and those deemed to be within the Putney set.
If the perpetrator is within this later list then they’ve been hiding in plain sight for well over 30 years.

By accident or design the perp has managed to hide her remains, if locally then it would be local knowledge imo, one thing with the MET and JC they have never ventured to what happened to her remains yet seem convince he killed her.

 

[Terryb808]

By accident or design the perp has managed to hide her remains, if locally then it would be local knowledge imo, one thing with the MET and JC they have never ventured to what happened to her remains yet seem convince he killed her.

If you’ve read CBD’s book “Prime Suspect” he indicates by example that JC is drawn to water for disposal.
He disposed of the knife he used in the knitting shop rape in water (a small lake in the Sutton Park Nature Reserve) and of course SB body in Dead Women’s Ditch.
So if JC is responsible the Met should have started looking for water disposal site instead of digging up parts of the English countryside.
JC must have been in stitches reading about the police exploits.

 

[Salah11]

Do people believe she was buried out of London as hiding a body in London would be a lot more difficult with the amount of building works and so on that’s been done in the last 3 decades so you would of thought a body would of been found if that was the case?


If the sighting going towards Hammersmith is true then that could have been the perp already heading out toward the sticks.

 

[WestLondoner]

The upside of disposal in water is that it erases forensics quite fast, the downside is that bodies put into water tend not to stay undiscovered. If you tried to do it in London, you'd struggle to find an opportunity to do so unseen.

In DV's book he interviewed Jim Dickie, who said the original 1986 suspect matrix was people whose number SJL had in her diary and who were in Fulham that day. When JD reinvestigated he added JC, eliminated all the others again and was left with JC; so QED, JC dunnit. If that is literally what he did, then had he added any of the hundreds who shared JC's immediate personal back story to his list, they would have been suspects too.

 

[WestLondoner]

Do people think she was buried out of London as hiding a body in London would be a lot more difficult with the amount of building works and so on that’s been done in the last 3 decades?

I don't think hiding a body in London need be all that difficult. If you're in a Victorian or Edwardian terrace you just need to get under the floorboards of the ground floor. About two feet underneath these, there is just dirt. If you have access to a house for long enough to do that, that's where you put her. The site would not have been disturbed unless someone gets planning permission to rebuild the whole house, which is rare.

 

[Terryb808]

I don't think hiding a body in London need be all that difficult. If you're in a Victorian or Edwardian terrace you just need to get under the floorboards of the ground floor. About two feet underneath these, there is just dirt. If you have access to a house for long enough to do that, that's where you put her. The site would not have been disturbed unless someone gets planning permission to rebuild the whole house, which is rare.

Exactly right, isn’t it a coincidence that Shorrolds Road contains one of the Kipper brothers and that particular Kipper moved from Wardo to Shorrolds not long before SJL disappeared.
I’m sure the question had be asked before, but did this particular Kipper still have full access to his former property in Wardo?

 

[WestLondoner]

Exactly right, isn’t it a coincidence that Shorrolds Road contains one of the Kipper brothers and that particular Kipper moved from Wardo to Shorrolds not long before SJL disappeared.
I’m sure the question had be asked before, but did this particular Kipper still have full access to his former property in Wardo?

Well, you do wonder. In plain sight indeed.

 

[lee sumner]

By accident or design the perp has managed to hide her remains, if locally then it would be local knowledge imo, one thing with the MET and JC they have never ventured to what happened to her remains yet seem convince he killed her.

JC is from the midlands. he does not have a good geographic knowledge of the london area as far as i know. so how did he manage to hide SL remains so well for 38 yrs.

 

[RichardKimble]

JC is from the midlands. he does not have a good geographic knowledge of the london area as far as i know. so how did he manage to hide SL remains so well for 38 yrs.

That's my point, guess that's what they went digging in his mums garage .

 

[Terryb808]

That's my point, guess that's what they went digging in his mums garage .

As I said before, JC doesn’t like hard work, plus disposal in water is a natural cleaner of evidence.
If it’s JC water is where he will have disposed of SJL. Even as inept as he is he’s not going to put her in concrete in his moms garage.

 

[Terryb808]

As I said before, JC doesn’t like hard work, plus disposal in water is a natural cleaner of evidence.
If it’s JC water is where he will have disposed of SJL. Even as inept as he is he’s not going to put her in concrete in his mom’s garage.

Unfortunately there’s a lot of places between London and JC’s home in Sutton Coldfield. Even on his mom’s doorstep there’s (what is not Sutton Park Nature Reserve). Back then just plain old Sutton Park.
It contains seven pools all capable of being a deposit sight. However, over the year’s they’ve all been drained at some point except one.
Wyndley pool AFAIK has never been drained and coincidentally is the only one accessible 24/7 365 days of the year. Additionally, you can drive right up to within a metre with your car.
Add to this the fact that JC’s much hated school backs onto the same pool and you have another coincidence.
If SB’s disposal is anything to go by he’s likely to choose a sight 40 to 60 miles from London. This doesn’t narrow things down much.

 

[WestLondoner]

JC had shared use of a Ford Sierra in 1986, a car which had an enormous boot under a hatch with a parcel shelf. It would be a pretty good way to move a body around. But if Cannan did this and moved her, perhaps to a site such as Terry outlines, then he probably had both to kill SJL and get her body into this car out of anyone else's view. This may mean both happened inside the same lock-up garage.

His flat in Bristol, Foye House in Bridge Road, does have a layout similar to the block of flats in Sun Road where Taggart lives, with a number of garages on the ground floor.

 

[Terryb808]

JC had shared use of a Ford Sierra in 1986, a car which had an enormous boot under a hatch with a parcel shelf. It would be a pretty good way to move a body around. But if Cannan did this and moved her, perhaps to a site such as Terry outlines, then he probably had both to kill SJL and get her body into this car out of anyone else's view. This may mean both happened inside the same lock-up garage.

His flat in Bristol, Foye House in Bridge Road, does have a layout similar to the block of flats in Sun Road where Taggart lives, with a number of garages on the ground floor.

Agree that’s possible, what makes it difficult is that given the level of mobility SJL could be just about anywhere.
This also applies to DV’s theory and the PoW pub. If SJL isn’t in the cellar (and I don’t see she can be) and not on the railway embankment the same applies.
Once the perpetrator has the opportunity to move the body the whole of the UK is open to him.
With the PoW narrative moving a body out of the cellar via (and it’s just conjecture) via the access in the road wouldn’t attract too much attention.

 

[RichardKimble]

What's the movements of JC after the disappearance is it known, did he leave London altogether?

 

[WestLondoner]

They're disputed. He says he went back to Birmingham. This alibi was not checked when offered, and by the time anyone thought to do so, all involved had died.

He could have put in an appearance in Birmingham, and then driven to London and back, if he had a car. I was living in Moseley in south-east Birmingham in July 1986, having moved with work from north-west London. I still had a woman in London and driving to see her there from Moseley took me about 2, 2.5 hours. Moseley's about 12 miles north of Sutton, so further, but driving from there to London would then actually have been slightly quicker. It's the same route (M6, M1), but Sutton's nearer the M6. There was no M40 then, but the western section of the M25 was built and open from 1984 or 1985.

So had JC wanted to put himself about Brum a bit by day to establish an alibi, then drive back down to London to retrieve a body, he could have done this. If he did it overnight, even his mother wouldn't necessarily notice that he'd left the house.

 

[WestLondoner]

Wyndley pool AFAIK has never been drained and coincidentally is the only one accessible 24/7 365 days of the year. Additionally, you can drive right up to within a metre with your car.

That's actually really interesting. On Google Earth it looks perfect and it's 300 by 120-odd metres.

Wyndley Pool · The Royal Town of Sutton Coldfield, Birmingham, Sutton Coldfield, UK

★★★★☆ · Lake

www.google.com

So if someone ditched a body there off the road, the edge to search would be the north, I guess? Is it deep there?

Another good local-ish site would be Blithfield Reservoir. It's 20-odd miles from Sutton, has a road bridge right across the middle, there's a nice low parapet and it's very, very quiet:

Blithfield Reservoir · Rugeley, UK

âââââ · Reservoir

www.google.com

JC and people like him presumably scope these places out in advance.

 

[Knitty]

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