UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

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I will look further into this ,it does mention a criminologist so prehaps I will search his name and see if I can find anything about his work . I apologise again and sincerely hope my post has not misled I was not aware of misinformation on Wikipedia and will know for further posts thank you
Found one article relating to suzys dna will look for sandra

Hopefully These links help and are an approved source WiseOwl


Criminologist speaks out on details linking Sutton Coldfield sex monster to murder of Suzy Lamplugh
This is Christopher Berry Dee, who claims Suzy's DNA was found in Cannan's car.
Berry Dee also wrote a book claiming Michael Sam's was Suzy's killer, so I think he may be a little confused. He also says that the SLP numberplate was on Cannan's Ford, when it was actually on Shirley Banks' Mini (which Cannan stole, repainted and like the genius he is, stored in his own garage).

That article also names JC as a suspect for Melanie Hall in 1996. He was actually questioned in regards to planning the perfect murder with his cellmate, the serial rapist Christopher Clark, who was released in 1996 (and attempted a rape in Bath, near where Melanie had vanished).
Cannan obviously couldn't have abducted Melanie as he was in prison in 1996.
He has also been mentioned for the murder of Shelley Morgan in 1984, even though he was in prison for that one too.
 
Here's the Sandra Court letter...

Postmarked in Southampton on 16 May 1987.
 
No, basically. Rapist, West Midlands, house = clearly Cannan. Except it wasn't. First, this criminal turned up at houses with a 'for sale' board outside and assaulted the owner if female. He didn't book appointments with an estate agent. Second, this criminal didn't kill anyone, so there are witnesses to his appearance, so a cursory check of his description would tell whether this was Cannan or not. You never hear of this being done. The West Midlands Police have never shown any interest in Cannan for this either. This case is frequently included in TV documentaries about SJL essentially to implicate Cannan in it by insinuation.

The Wikipedia article on this case is utter tripe BTW, and 100% worthless as a source.
I doubt if JC was the HFSR, but there are some general similarities in MO and appearance. The police don't seem to have done any ID parades with victims, or anything like that. There are never any appeals about the case. I wonder when it was last reviewed.

I suspect (although I may be wrong) that the evidence has been lost or thrown out.
If Cannan wasn't the rapist, then who was?

As for the wikipedia article, I completely agree...
 
I think it's fair to say then that all avenues and alibis were checked to eliminate AL.

Definitely. If the police had tried to charge someone with this, having not conclusively eliminated AL, the obvious line the defence would take is "it's always the boyfriend; the police never properly eliminated the boyfriend; therefore it might have been the boyfriend; therefore there's reasonable doubt that it was my client. Your Honour, please throw this case out." Even if the police didn't think for a nanosecond AL had anything to do with it, they'd still have to eliminate him beyond all argument - as they did.

The simpler explanation IMO of the various conflicting, and in some cases unlikely, accounts AL has given is empathy for DL in her loss. DL was comforting herself by managing SJL's posthumous reputation. She thought SJL's name would be besmirched by sensational disclosures about her personal life. She was quite successful in closing this down. All we know is AS' remark that some of the stuff dropped from his book was "News of the World material". It's a while since I read his book, but AS does indicate that at the time she disappeared, SJL was four-timing AL. Maybe the details are what he meant. DL would have regarded SJL not being a virgin when unmarried at 25 as completely disgraceful, so it's not hard to see why they fell out.

I think the police said he had to provide a witness who saw her go to the pub that day before they would act. It looks like his work will go to waste. I reread the Andrew Stephens book, and he points out the discrepancies in the relief landlords account from 1986 to 1987 assuring us its purely a mistake. Maybe he picked up on something ?

This has always struck me as pretty disingenuous by the police because literally from the get-go, they told the world that SJL went to 37SR and met a man there. They were informed of her disappearance at 6pm on Monday, and were going with this narrative by 2pm on Tuesday before they'd taken a single statement from anyone. This pretty much guaranteed that if anyone thought they'd seen her going into the PoW at 1pm they would not have come forward, because according to the police, that definitely wasn't her. It was nonsense to suggest that DV should now find a witness to this 35 years after the fact, when it was their own job to do so in 1986. Even if DV somehow did find such a witness, they'd dismiss it as not credible after so long.

I'm not Terry, but I think the DV/POW stuff is very unlikely.
I also haven't seen anything to suggest the landlord is dodgy.

For the CV/KH theory to stack up, the pub would have had to be closed and empty but for the landlord, who'd have to be a reflexive sex attacker. There's no evidence of this in the book, although DV may have more than he lets on.

At best, the only person saying she never turned up there is CV/KH - which, if he did it, he would say that, wouldn't he? Then again, he'd also say it if it were true, so it doesn't prove a lot. It's also inconceivable that she's under the pub floor because it was relaid in the mid 1990s and nothing was found, and if she had been found, the suspects list would have about one or two names on it.

If CV/KH/ A N Other did it she'd be on the railway embankment behind the pub, not under the floor inside it.

I doubt if JC was the HFSR, but there are some general similarities in MO and appearance. The police don't seem to have done any ID parades with victims, or anything like that.

The point, I guess, is that this attacker left a witness every time he offended, because he didn't kill any victim. It would therefore be trivial to establish whether this could have been Cannan. I suspect this was done and he was eliminated, because the HSFR was e.g. a 6-foot 20-stone Asian or something. But it doesn't support the narrative so it keeps coming up as part of the "case" against Cannan.

Cannan was not the only rapist in the country. In 1986 Birmingham had a population of 1 million which was about 2% of the national population. 4,000 rapists a year were convicted in the 1980s (and always jailed), so about a 80 year from Birmingham, pro-rata. Depending on how long a rapist is active for (10 years? 12 years?), there could easily have been 1,000 active or potential rapists in Birmingham. So with the HSFR case as with SJL, I always ask why it can't have been any of the others who did this sort of thing. If there were 1,000 active rapists in Birmingham who could have been the HSFR, have the other 999 been eliminated? How many rapists had been released from Brixton, Wandsworth and Wormwood Scrubs in the first half of 1986*, and why can't it be any of them, given that the two former prisons were nearer where SJL lived than WS was?


* by my calculation about 1 to 2 a week based on the population in these three prisons, so 50 to 100 by the end of July
 
You do have to seriously question his version of events, Suzy wasn't there to validate them .
Was the alibi that he was in his office on the Monday verified by other staff members? And if my information is incorrect who was his alibi and did anyone else confirm they had broken up on the Friday or were together in the POW .
Can anyone verify if they had an argument while in the PoW on the Friday or if there was tension
.How about restaurant staff ,where they had their meal was the food eaten or disregarded as a break up happened ? Did they appear as a loved up couple in the restaurant or distant and a lot of napkin wringing or slugging of alcohol (signs of a tense couple )
Unfortunately the investigation focused immediately on 37SR. Nobody paid any attention to the PoW until a year later when the temp landlord's account of events changed signficantly.
 
Who is Dr Pam? there was a message about looking this up and interesting info, i cant find anything
 
Unfortunately the investigation focused immediately on 37SR. Nobody paid any attention to the PoW until a year later when the temp landlord's account of events changed signficantly.
I hadnt heard of the POW element until Videcettes book was published. In the early years of this case all i read about was Mister kipper and Shorrolds Road
 
I was only 3 in 1986 so those of you older than me (or just smarter than me!) hopefully have better knowledge. Can someone help with these questions…

Would it be the norm for a woman to just take a purse and keys into work? Or would they be in a handbag? Like a bag with a strap that could be draped over your shoulder. Did Suzy take a handbag too? Just thinking if you have keys, purse, cheque book, diary that’s a lot to carry around. Especially as it was July so less likely to have coats with pockets to store things in. Also Suzy comes across as a fashionable lady and handbags are often a fashion trend. Where they in 1986?

If she was going to show a prospective buyer a property would it be the norm to take her purse with her? Surely she’d leave it in her desk? Unless she was going to buy lunch while she was out, maybe. Or were personal items not as safe as I’m imagining in 1986? For context I’ve worked in places with lockers (that you put your own padlock on) as well as places you’d leave your bag (with keys phone purse in) in the office which was only accessed by management but was never locked, though there was cctv!

How likely was it that people would leave their purse/wallet in a car in London? I suppose it was in the door pocket so not easy to see a small purse. I can’t imagine my parents doing this. I grew up in London (not Fulham but a ‘nice’ middle class area ) and my mum was always very protective of her purse and handbag, and would only have left it in the car by accident.

How is Kieper pronounced? Is it like kiper to rhyme with (window) wiper? If so it seems strange that Suzy would put 2 ‘p’s in but I did also read that she was dyslexic, so maybe that explains it. Or some people are just not good at spelling. Or does it sound like kipper to rhyme with flipper? Which would make more sense. Though I’m still leaning towards it being a fake appointment and the name was inspired by Mr Herring who lived on Shorrolds road.
SL only took her purse to the appointment she had to view 37 shorrolds rd. she left her handbag beside her desk in the office. this to me shows she did not plan on being gone for very long.
 
Suzy's dna and cannan's dna was found to be in the same car I always felt this was maybe because it was a loan car .suzy had her car repaired in a garage shortly before she went missing and cannan was friendly with a mechanic so maybe both used the car separately. I know cannan had MO and he has alluded to knowing something but a lot of killers when caught will boast or allude to having I higher body count for notoriety.


A cigarette butt was found in suzy's car .it could have been by a person working at the garage or not. Was it swabbed for dna and if not why not ? .Cigarette butts are very important evidence as they come into direct contact with saliva.I do know plenty of suzy's friends smoked but she disliked the smell so feel she would not have willing allowed someone to smoke in her car .

I feel the same as you if she was meeting someone for a house viewing. Why would it be secret .She would have had to bring a work diary and prehaps a calculator, even if just to jot down a few figures or next appointment date .I have read she didn't bring the keys for the house either . A house viewing no matter the year is quite formal and suzy was earning commission so would have wanted to keep a record of any meet ups she had with potential buyers . The sightings of suzy and a man outside property I feel was also a false lead a lot of women with blonde hair ( see paragraph below this) with similar haircuts and styling and similar heights and figure can look the same from behind (not generalising just observation over the years and mistaking strangers for known friends lol )


As regards the diamond dealer keiper who did own a BMW why was this not looked into further .suzy had mentioned she met a rich man . I feel suzy's liaisons with men inhibited the case as sometimes police forces or public will overlook other possibilities when it comes to less "virginal "women . Which is why her mum may have wanted her painted as one .


The diary going missing or prehaps intentional lifted from her handbag imo was taken by someone who knew she had it and knew she wrote personal things in there . If suzy was drunk as speculated she may not have noticed someone going through her handbag or as I have thought it to be a woman who took it for a read/ nosey prehaps asked for a loan of a hairbrush /lipstick/ makeup of some sort and suzy told them to get it themselves. I know I would allow a trusted friend go to my handbag to get something such as this . And after reading said diary discarded it in carpark /outside pub to make it look like suzy dropped it drunk .I always felt diary was taken for a snoop by whomever took it .cheque book just happened to be either stuck between the pages or beside it and taken quickly as a 'pair ' . As if chequebook was taken deliberately by a pickpocket it would have been used and not found .diary would have been discarded and no more of that .Was diary swabbed for fingerprints. Is it still in forensic storage or given back to family ?

In summary I believe suzy was murdered by someone who knew her and it was two people or more prehaps a couple one to dispose / hide the body one to drive suzy's car and park it offside I have never understood why the pub was not explored more . The sighting of a blonde woman and a man arguing/laughing in the car may not of been suzy but another woman .

it has been assumed suzy dyed her hair blonde from dye found in the bathroom but why ? when she had spent a lot in a hair salon to have it coloured brown with highlights only recently. Did her job verify if she had done this as she was in work the day she went missing or cctv footage otherwise it doesn't stand to fact . There is multiple shades of blonde and if someone has some highlights going through brown a lot of people will just say blonde imo .

There is a lot of evidence that day that point to suzy just popping out of the office for a quick excursion. I feel she would have wanted her extremely personal diary back ASAP and went to get that .Maybe as you say grab a quick bite to eat or glass of something at the pub .If she was meeting a new or old suitor she would have at least brought a lipstick to apply in car before or after to go back to office .she cared about her appearance and was obviously glamorous. She had the mind to take a purse so why not anything
 
HI SU5IE. they never found DNA belonging to suzy or cannan in her car, and the cig butt you mention is the claudia lawrence case. i think you have mixed up some details from the claudia lawrence case. iam not being cocky, just pointing certain details out.
 
HI SU5IE. they never found DNA belonging to suzy or cannan in her car, and the cig butt you mention is the claudia lawrence case. i think you have mixed up some details from the claudia lawrence case. iam not being cocky, just pointing certain details out.
Another poster highlighted this mix up by me .Further along in the thread
I've posted two articles in reply to WiseOwl regarding Dna .I will insert the quoted text here ,it states a red Ford Sierra cannan had access to at the time of Suzy’s disappearance and recovered from a scrap yard in a reopening of Suzy’s case found possible Dna of sandra court . It also states that dna possibly belonging to suzy lamplugh and cannan were found in the same car at least that is my understanding of the articles.

I am happy to recieve constructive criticism as it helps me learn so would never think a fellow poster was cocky or trying to show me up . Thank you Lee for highlighting though as the last thing I want to include in my posts is untrue or misleading posts

I will look further into this ,it does mention a criminologist so prehaps I will search his name and see if I can find anything about his work . I apologise again and sincerely hope my post has not misled I was not aware of misinformation on Wikipedia and will know for further posts thank you
Found one article relating to suzys dna will look for sandra

Hopefully These links help and are an approved source WiseOwl


Criminologist speaks out on details linking Sutton Coldfield sex monster to murder of Suzy Lamplugh
 
Can I ask? Is the general consensus among posters here, pointing to Cannan as the culprit ( There is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to him and if this type of evidence was accepted in courts He would be convicted imo )or alternatively another rapist/ murderer .And through researching you have exhausted any other Avenue or suspicion pointing in the direction of AL, KH ,work colleagues, friends, lovers or another person in suzy's usual circle .

I don't want to waste your time or my energy with speculative scenarios and assuming there could be a possibility that the likes of AL and KH were not put under enough scrutiny at the time and are prehaps guilty.

What I'm trying to say is .has questioning this been done to the max and would i be better putting my time into researching the Cannan link and known peeping tom's, rapists and other sexual predators In the wider locality at the time of Suzy’s disappearance

Very interesting post about the prisons in the wider area and possible suspects among released prisoners

Definitely. If the police had tried to charge someone with this, having not conclusively eliminated AL, the obvious line the defence would take is "it's always the boyfriend; the police never properly eliminated the boyfriend; therefore it might have been the boyfriend; therefore there's reasonable doubt that it was my client. Your Honour, please throw this case out." Even if the police didn't think for a nanosecond AL had anything to do with it, they'd still have to eliminate him beyond all argument - as they did.

The simpler explanation IMO of the various conflicting, and in some cases unlikely, accounts AL has given is empathy for DL in her loss. DL was comforting herself by managing SJL's posthumous reputation. She thought SJL's name would be besmirched by sensational disclosures about her personal life. She was quite successful in closing this down. All we know is AS' remark that some of the stuff dropped from his book was "News of the World material". It's a while since I read his book, but AS does indicate that at the time she disappeared, SJL was four-timing AL. Maybe the details are what he meant. DL would have regarded SJL not being a virgin when unmarried at 25 as completely disgraceful, so it's not hard to see why they fell out.



This has always struck me as pretty disingenuous by the police because literally from the get-go, they told the world that SJL went to 37SR and met a man there. They were informed of her disappearance at 6pm on Monday, and were going with this narrative by 2pm on Tuesday before they'd taken a single statement from anyone. This pretty much guaranteed that if anyone thought they'd seen her going into the PoW at 1pm they would not have come forward, because according to the police, that definitely wasn't her. It was nonsense to suggest that DV should now find a witness to this 35 years after the fact, when it was their own job to do so in 1986. Even if DV somehow did find such a witness, they'd dismiss it as not credible after so long.



For the CV/KH theory to stack up, the pub would have had to be closed and empty but for the landlord, who'd have to be a reflexive sex attacker. There's no evidence of this in the book, although DV may have more than he lets on.

At best, the only person saying she never turned up there is CV/KH - which, if he did it, he would say that, wouldn't he? Then again, he'd also say it if it were true, so it doesn't prove a lot. It's also inconceivable that she's under the pub floor because it was relaid in the mid 1990s and nothing was found, and if she had been found, the suspects list would have about one or two names on it.

If CV/KH/ A N Other did it she'd be on the railway embankment behind the pub, not under the floor inside it.



The point, I guess, is that this attacker left a witness every time he offended, because he didn't kill any victim. It would therefore be trivial to establish whether this could have been Cannan. I suspect this was done and he was eliminated, because the HSFR was e.g. a 6-foot 20-stone Asian or something. But it doesn't support the narrative so it keeps coming up as part of the "case" against Cannan.

Cannan was not the only rapist in the country. In 1986 Birmingham had a population of 1 million which was about 2% of the national population. 4,000 rapists a year were convicted in the 1980s (and always jailed), so about a 80 year from Birmingham, pro-rata. Depending on how long a rapist is active for (10 years? 12 years?), there could easily have been 1,000 active or potential rapists in Birmingham. So with the HSFR case as with SJL, I always ask why it can't have been any of the others who did this sort of thing. If there were 1,000 active rapists in Birmingham who could have been the HSFR, have the other 999 been eliminated? How many rapists had been released from Brixton, Wandsworth and Wormwood Scrubs in the first half of 1986*, and why can't it be any of them, given that the two former prisons were nearer where SJL lived than WS was?


* by my calculation about 1 to 2 a week based on the population in these three prisons, so 50 to 100 by the end of July
 
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