GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #1

[katydid23]

Why do you think that ?

Because statistically, when a child goes missing, the perp is usually a close family member or friend. And I think it was very dodgy that the grandma changed from leaving for work on Friday morning and then admitting she had not been there for the entire night.

I just find it too much of a coincidence that she could have walked out the door and run into trouble in a matter of minutes, jmo.

Sure, maybe she had it set up she was going to meet with someone, but her phone was dead. So how could she have done that? And she was not at her own home, so who would she know in the neighborhood?

It just seems that grandma's boyfriend had the perfect opportunity, more likely than a random abductor.

 

[soozieqtips]

Hi everyone , I am also new !

If he said good-bye to her , this is a very strange turn of phrase . He knows deep-down , not he knows for sure as that is what definitely happened ?!

Hi Raychel. Interesting point. Maybe he just didn't know how to express himself more articulately? For me, 'deep down' means a 'feeling', not a certainty. But for him it might have meant a certainty.

laserdisc10 - your post about what you took from the interview was very intriguing. I hadn't thought of him being worried about what gran thought of the housework. But maybe she made that a condition of him living there rent free? If he was living rent free, that is.

Crazy Mama You're right. I was well and truly put on the spot!

 

[katydid23]

Well, why not? Plenty of men do laundry, especially ones that are home most of the day. Why did it give you the creeps?


She was staying with her gran for the weekend.

I think the question of why he washed her clothes is a valid one. She just got there. How much laundry could she have had? She arrives on Thursday and he is doing her wash on Friday morning?

 

[laserdisc10]

"I know deep down she walked out of here. I know deep down she walked down that path. What happened after that I don't know."

If he said good-bye to her , this is a very strange turn of phrase . He knows deep-down , not he knows for sure as that is what definitely happened ?!


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Yes, I noted that. It was a strange turn of phrase

Only conclusion I could reach was that he was attempting to speak differently to usual on account of being on tv, possibly aligned with nerves, lack of sleep, pressure, etc. Because it sounded odd also when he said that after searching the fairground for Tia, they first returned to the grandmother's house after seeing the 130 bus - then they went to Tia's mother's house. At which point he said 'literally', as in: 'we literally went to Natalie's place' (how else would you go to someone's place - telepathically, lol). So again, odd, but maybe on account of trying to sound more polished, professional, etc. considering millions were watching him on tv

 

[katydid23]

What I took from the interview is this:

* guy who hasn't had many good breaks/opportunities in life

* probably in trouble and blamed for things from early childhood on

* inferiority complex and deprived upbringing and life

* has a record like many, most likely, from his environment

* desperately wants and needs a home life, aspires to a 'respectable' life and has attempted to create this with who knows how many women. What we have been told is that he was in a relationship with Tia's mother. Then, when that fell through, he probably turned to Tia's grandmother in order to cling to semblance of family and a roof over his head

* unemployed and close to emasculated. In the interview he recounts the purchase of sweets on Thursday afternoon with Tia. Tia ate 3 and wanted also to eat the last but he stopped her, explaining embarrassedly that if the grandmother returned from work and discovered the empty packet of sweets, she'd be angry. That speaks volumes right there - the grandmother, employed and source of money in the household, wears the britches and would be annoyed if there were no sweets left for her (as if she needs them)

* attempts to play the indulgent father role with Tia, explaining in the interview he'd given the child ten Pounds 'as a bit of pocket money' and to teach her things in life should be earned (pocket money in return for assistance around the house) although it's highly probable the money came out of a housekeeping allowance provided by the employed grandmother

* was focused on what he'd done that day because, imho, he is answerable to the employed grandmother and because he earns his keep, basically, by functioning as a house-husband. It's to be suspected, imo, that if the household tasks were not done, he'd be in trouble when the grandmother returned home, including by the sound of it, remonstrations about Tia's soiled clothing being in the laundry basket. To me, it sounds as if he lives on his nerves and washed Tia's clothes in order there be no reason for the grandmother to bawl him out

ALL of the above makes him seem like a very likely suspect in this case. JMO

 

[badhorsie]

Welcome Raychel :welcome:

 

[masekwm]

I think the question of why he washed her clothes is a valid one. She just got there. How much laundry could she have had? She arrives on Thursday and he is doing her wash on Friday morning?

She stayed there a lot, if the mum works full time she may stay at the weekend, during holidays, a lot. It is possible he meant he had washed her clothes that are kept there.

 

[soozieqtips]

I think the question of why he washed her clothes is a valid one. She just got there. How much laundry could she have had? She arrives on Thursday and he is doing her wash on Friday morning?

True. But I was thinking he was doing everyone's wash, not just hers, in which case it wouldn't be odd at all.

 

[laserdisc10]

Because statistically, when a child goes missing, the perp is usually a close family member or friend. And I think it was very dodgy that the grandma changed from leaving for work on Friday morning and then admitting she had not been there for the entire night.

I just find it too much of a coincidence that she could have walked out the door and run into trouble in a matter of minutes, jmo.

Sure, maybe she had it set up she was going to meet with someone, but her phone was dead. So how could she have done that? And she was not at her own home, so who would she know in the neighborhood?

It just seems that grandma's boyfriend had the perfect opportunity, more likely than a random abductor.

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Thanks. For me, there are no definites and I'm not prepared to discount anyone at this stage. Tia had an apparently extensive and rather complicated extended family, several of whom may well have had access to vehicles and who very probably knew where she was -- this includes friends of extended family members (many of whom are young males). It wouldn't surprise me to learn Tia was relaxed and confident in the company of males, considering she was surrounded by so many, most of whom appear quite devoted to her. Therefore, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility by any means that she may have been seen by someone associated with her family members in close proximity to her grandmother's house and offered a lift

Workmen too remain a possibility imo. If, as seems to have been the case, Tia was a frequent visitor and guest at her grandmother's house, she would have taken workmen for granted in the same way one or more workmen may have taken note of her. We don't know whether or not Tia was on speaking terms with any or was accustomed to waving as she passed. She is an attractive young girl - few workmen are oblivious to female attractiveness and in many instances, workmen seem to consider it part of their territory to make comments and wolf-whistle to passing females. Tia may have giggled in response - we don't know

Or, as has happened many times, a trusting young girl who's not particularly nervous of men could be persuaded to go take a look at abandoned kittens, or baby foxes, whatever, in a nearby park or woods - or even a man's van or car

I'm not forgetting either that early on, there were reports of a man in a white van or similar who'd been reported to police by nearby residents with regard to children in the area

 

[Crazy Mama]

I don't think it sounded right that he was washing her clothes. It is not right for her to have been alone with him all night. Her mother MUST explain herself now, for this is so wrong on many levels. How many men does Tia have who treat her as a daughter? Her mothers partner (DN) said that he was there from day dot and has bathed her etc etc. Why have so many men other than her biological father had access to her in a private way?
Tia must have been oh-so confused.

 

[Crazy Mama]

Did the police remove sheets in the bag?

If so, perhaps they want to ascertain that she slept there....or to prove where she slept...or

 

[TykeyTrouble]

I'm a little confused about the Grandmother's working hours. SH admits that the Grandmother wasn't at home when he allegedly fed Tia pizza and chips on Thursday evening and she didn't return until the following afternoon. That's a heck of a long time to be working.

 

[laserdisc10]

I don't think it sounded right that he was washing her clothes. It is not right for her to have been alone with him all night. Her mother MUST explain herself now, for this is so wrong on many levels. How many men does Tia have who treat her as a daughter? Her mothers partner (DN) said that he was there from day dot and has bathed her etc etc. Why have so many men other than her biological father had access to her in a private way?
Tia must have been oh-so confused.

The media has stated on more than one occasion that the step-father (Tia's mother's husband/partner) has been in her life since she was seven or so. According to (confusing) media reports, Tia's mother and partner have two sons together. In saying he's been in her life from 'day dot', the step-father may have meant 'for years' or 'since she was young'. I guess to a man still under 30, five years may well seem a long time, or 'since day dot', lol

Her biological father, according to the media, last interacted with Tia when she was around 7 years of age. And the man described as Tia's 'step grandad' has, according to the media, lived with Tia's grandmother for 4 years, if memory serves, although as it's also reported he was initially involved with Tia's mother, he may well have known Tia since she was quite young

Both Tia's step-father and 'step grandfather' seem to regard Tia in a paternal manner. What appears sadly missing in this tale is similar sentiment expressed by Tia's biological father

 

[Lottie]

* desperately wants and needs a home life, aspires to a 'respectable' life and has attempted to create this with who knows how many women. What we have been told is that he was in a relationship with Tia's mother. Then, when that fell through, he probably turned to Tia's grandmother in order to cling to semblance of family and a roof over his head

* unemployed and close to emasculated. In the interview he recounts the purchase of sweets on Thursday afternoon with Tia. Tia ate 3 and wanted also to eat the last but he stopped her, explaining embarrassedly that if the grandmother returned from work and discovered the empty packet of sweets, she'd be angry. That speaks volumes right there - the grandmother, employed and source of money in the household, wears the britches and would be annoyed if there were no sweets left for her (as if she needs them)

* was focused on what he'd done that day because, imho, he is answerable to the employed grandmother and because he earns his keep, basically, by functioning as a house-husband. It's to be suspected, imo, that if the household tasks were not done, he'd be in trouble when the grandmother returned home,...... To me, it sounds as if he lives on his nerves and washed Tia's clothes in order there be no reason for the grandmother to bawl him out

I thought exactly the same. If Christine was due home at around 1-2pm and it was nearly midday, he'd have been rushing around doing the chores before she got back.

Re getting a job, problem is nowadays, you have a record, it is very difficult to get a job. Just look at how the media is dragging up his past...even if you want to make a new life, it's very hard if you have a record as there will always be someone lurking ready to rub your nose in it. The only way out of the poverty trap for some is crime/drugs. Society has made these people unemployable with all the red tape.

 

[Saracen]

There is something about this case that makes me think it's a repeat of the Shannon Matthews "kidnapping"

Thats the one I was trying to think of earlier.. thank you

 

[Raychel]

I belong to a group on Facebook where people discuss body language . Here's the results so far :-

* He looks like he is making this scenario in his head! I may be wrong, I'm no expert....
about an hour ago via Mobile

*What's your thoughts??? Not too sure after seeing this?

*I think he is very concerned with telling very precise details, getting the order in which he did what bit of housework correctly etc. right. Also when he gets to the bit where he says at 7pm they were getting worried, again concerned with accounting for every minute. He said "I loved her" which sends major alarm bells ringing. At the end he tries but fails to cry. I do not believe this is to uphold a macho image, given the amount of housework he does ;-) another thing, he does the pointing in the direction of the hall way when he talks about e.g hoovering but I cannot determine whether the words & gestures are synchronised. Jury's still out for me but my gut feeling says he knows more!


I have just personally watched it back myself . I know you can account for some of it with nerves . But he does seem to shake his head "no" in places where he could be lying , and also in the bits where he could be lying his blink rate increases .

 

[laserdisc10]

In a well-known online forum they're discussing the swift and organised manner in which T-shirts and posters were arranged, attributable, it's said, to one or possibly more of Tia's young uncles, who're also manning the Facebook page apparently

It did seem to be a pretty rapid response

 

[Raychel]

In a well-known online forum they're discussing the swift and organised manner in which T-shirts and posters were arranged, attributable, it's said, to one or possibly more of Tia's young uncles, who're also manning the Facebook page apparently

It did seem to be a pretty rapid response

I am a member of the group . David Sharpe is running it . To be fair , thousands of people pulled together within hours of her missing , printing shops etc got in touch to offer their services . I don't think any foul play there

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

She stayed there a lot, if the mum works full time she may stay at the weekend, during holidays, a lot. It is possible he meant he had washed her clothes that are kept there.

The confusing (That word again) point about the clothes is this.

Apart from the hug boots, Tia was wearing the same clothes as seen in the CCTV the day before. Why would Tia put these same clothes back on if other (clean) clothes were available?

 

[laserdisc10]

I belong to a group on Facebook where people discuss body language . Here's the results so far :-

* He looks like he is making this scenario in his head! I may be wrong, I'm no expert....
about an hour ago via Mobile

*What's your thoughts??? Not too sure after seeing this?

*I think he is very concerned with telling very precise details, getting the order in which he did what bit of housework correctly etc. right. Also when he gets to the bit where he says at 7pm they were getting worried, again concerned with accounting for every minute. He said "I loved her" which sends major alarm bells ringing. At the end he tries but fails to cry. I do not believe this is to uphold a macho image, given the amount of housework he does ;-) another thing, he does the pointing in the direction of the hall way when he talks about e.g hoovering but I cannot determine whether the words & gestures are synchronised. Jury's still out for me but my gut feeling says he knows more!


I have just personally watched it back myself . I know you can account for some of it with nerves . But he does seem to shake his head "no" in places where he could be lying , and also in the bits where he could be lying his blink rate increases .

BBM
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We see what we want to, quite often. And obviously, he's made to measure for the role of perpetrator, so many will leap to conclusions based on other cases and simply on the way he presents himself and has been portrayed by the media

Time will tell. Hopefully Tia will emerge unscathed

But, with regard to his ensuring he get in all the details, this is textbook stuff as far as those who've been bullied and accused, or who've been low in the class at school, or whose families have been regarded as the scourge of the neighbourhood, etc.

In short, those who've been accused wrongly quite often, based on past misdeeds or simply as result of accusations, go to great lengths to provide every possible detail

At school, or in the playground, there are no lawyers, just self-made judges and juries. The young accused has nothing at his/her disposal other than their word. In the attempt to plead their case, they very often provide every possible detail. They over-explain. They've had to do it, quite often, in face of drunken parents holding a leather belt over their heads. It becomes their default mode to the point very often, an abused child (and later adult) will look and sound and FEEL guilty the moment something goes wrong, even if an outsider could tell them they were innocent and had nothing to do with it. It's one of the legacies of abused childhoods. Others go the other way and simply refuse to answer and accept all accusations and beatings, deserved or not

Not saying this is the case here, but it may well be, so I'm prepared to give benefit of the doubt at this point