GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #1

[laserdisc10]

The other thing I've noticed in cases like this is how families will do anything to cover up for each other, no matter how serious the crime. It's like their own little world where they can do whatever they like without fear of repercussion because they know no one will speak up. Misplaced loyalty. It happens in a lot of child abuse cases too. It's hard for me to conceive that Gran is involved too, mainly because Tia was her own flesh and blood. But it looks like she's been covering for Hazell since the start. He's obviously more important to her than her granddaughter was.

Well, at least SH's father (step-great-grandfather?) didn't bow to pressure and told it like it was despite being portrayed by his own son (SH) as someone who likes to drink and who wouldn't know his knee from his elbow. Well done old man, wherever you are

 

[badhorsie]

I'm new here.
I visited the gran's FB page, if somebody like her can be called a grandmother. Don't you find it interesting that she didn't update her FB since July 28th. I am certain that she was involved. I also think the uncle knew about this, too.

Sure her FB page depicted her as a thorough piece of work, and she worked as a carer :what: heaven help us

 

[wfgodot]

The great G.K. Chesterton (of the 'Father Brown' mystery stories and much else), from "The Oracle of the Dog":

I always like a dog, so long as he isn't spelt backwards.

 

[Louvie]

However, it's been said a few times in other fora that posters lived in that estate or those identical to it in the same area. What they've said is that the Lindens (grandmother's place) is 1960s/1970s build and non too substantial or well constructed. It may be they used pre-formed trusses for the roofs. If so, pre-formed trusses are not intended to support the old-style loft spaces. In fact, architect and renovation sites online warn about putting much weight at all in the roof-space, because pre-formed trusses are not designed to take much load. Attempts to use under-roof spaces which are built using pre-formed trusses can actually collapse the roof, apparently. People in such dwellings are warned not to attempt to use the under-roof area for attic-conversions, for example and councils would not give approval. People in such dwellings are warned that if they absolutely must store items in the roof-space, to ensure the items are light in weight

Based on the above, I doubt there would be many items in the grandmother's under-roof space, as tenants would doubtless be warned by council (the legal owners?) about the dangers and penalties

I know in my parents' house, the attic was solid as a rock and as in your case, held a variety of quite substantial and weighty items in addition to being floored throughout. But economies in construction have resulted in use of pre-formed roofing and with it, the lack of useable attic space, apart from insulation batts and maybe the odd box of Christmas trimmings

This is interesting, thanks for the information! I suppose I sort of assumed that all lofts are similar but of course you are correct that different construction means vastly different roof-space, and I admittedly have spent most of my time in very sturdy free-standing houses, and apartments with no lofts.

Having read the above from laserdisc my query may now be moot with regard to this case, but out of curiosity does anybody actually know the answer to my question about how close cadaver dogs need to get to be able to detect human remains? Can they scent through furniture/walls/a ceiling? From great distances? Does it depend greatly on the extent of decomposition, i.e. they would need to be very close if a person is very recently diseased, but can scent from further away after decomposition has progressed a little? Morbid curiosity...

 

[Destroyer]

The other thing I've noticed in cases like this is how families will do anything to cover up for each other, no matter how serious the crime. It's like their own little world where they can do whatever they like without fear of repercussion because they know no one will speak up. Misplaced loyalty. It happens in a lot of child abuse cases too. It's hard for me to conceive that Gran is involved too, mainly because Tia was her own flesh and blood. But it looks like she's been covering for Hazell since the start. He's obviously more important to her than her granddaughter was.

It is quite incredible how people cover up for others they have fallen for, no matter how sick the individual is they have fallen for in their hearts they can see no wrong in them - i know myself where in a family it has torn them apart where a relation has taken up with someone that the rest of the family do not trust to leave their children anywhere near, even though the person in question made sick remarks regarding their grand-daughter.

 

[laserdisc10]

Sure her FB page depicted her as a thorough piece of work, and she worked as a carer :what: heaven help us

Have heard her FB page doesn't present her well, though haven't seen it myself. As to carers -- so much truly ghastly information emerging about them that I've already made up my mind to euthanase myself rather than subject myself to their ministrations. Haven't worked out how to protect my children from them though, seeing I won't be here in person. And to be honest, that situation is causing me considerable anxiety

 

[nursebeeme]

But can the smell permeate heavy duty bin bags and duct tape? I wish cadaver dogs had been brought in right at the beginning, I also think that interjoinig attics hae been blocked off in most terrace houses now

from my understanding yes.

Especially if they used HRD dogs (they can smell things buried, wrapped, etc)...

I am glad they caught this guy!

 

[KR1]

It did cross my mind if possibly the body had been stored in a neighbours house that they may of been looking after a pet whilst away on their hols ?? Just speculating, but at this time of year its more than possible.

Good point, summer holidays here - do any of the immediate family live adjacent either side, not sure that's been asked yet?

 

[laserdisc10]

This is interesting, thanks for the information! I suppose I sort of assumed that all lofts are similar but of course you are correct that different construction means vastly different roof-space, and I admittedly have spent most of my time in very sturdy free-standing houses, and apartments with no lofts.

Having read the above from laserdisc my query may now be moot with regard to this case, but out of curiosity does anybody actually know the answer to my question about how close cadaver dogs need to get to be able to detect human remains? Can they scent through furniture/walls/a ceiling? From great distances? Does it depend greatly on the extent of decomposition, i.e. they would need to be very close if a person is very recently diseased, but can scent from further away after decomposition has progressed a little? Morbid curiosity...

Don't know how it works re: cadaver dogs proper and height above their heads, but earlier in the thread I think, someone posted about how cadaver dogs proved the ability to detect decomposition buried beneath metres of concrete despite decaying meat being placed in their path at ground level. If they're capable of that, it's to be suspected that cadaver dogs would easily detect decomp in a roof space

 

[Destroyer]

It did cross my mind if possibly the body had been stored in a neighbours house that they may of been looking after a pet whilst away on their hols ?? Just speculating, but at this time of year its more than possible.

Good point, summer holidays here - do any of the immediate family live adjacent either side, not sure that's been asked yet?

I did notice 2 dogs in the garden running loose & a cat that kept jumping in & out of the window, these dogs could belong to the neighbour for all we know??

 

[Amster]

I looked it up - if a body is wrapped up in something airtight, the smell could be contained and decomposition slowed. I am thinking heavy duty bin bags and heavy duty tape and hidden in a loft - perhaps in a bag/case/ trunk. It is certainly possible to do that for a period of 7 days. It sounds as if the dog today picked up the smell.

Breaking news on Sky: SH in custody.

Yippee!! :woohoo:

 

[wfgodot]

more arrest-specific info:

....in Canonhill Common in Merton, south London. (DM)

(and at 20:25 BST)

 

[Louvie]

It is quite incredible how people cover up for others they have fallen for, no matter how sick the individual is they have fallen for in their hearts they can see no wrong in them - i know myself where in a family it has torn them apart where a relation has taken up with someone that the rest of the family do not trust to leave their children anywhere near, even though the person in question made sick remarks regarding their grand-daughter.

I have always been baffled by people who lie for family/friends/partners. I can truthfully hand-on-my-heart say that if even my MUM, or dad/brother/best friend/husband asked me to say something that I thought was suspicious due to criminal investigations going on around us, ESPECIALLY regarding the safety of a child, I would flat-out refuse and not even consider it. I would like to think that I would also shop them to the coppers, but truthfully I'm not sure I'd have the strength to turn in one of my parents, for example. Certainly wouldn't lie if asked though, and absolutely wouldn't make something up about seeing a missing kid walking by. Sincerely hope that the witness in this case is genuinely mistaken and didn't make this up.


ETA - I would *absolutely* turn in ANYBODY in my life if I thought they had anything to do with anything such as this case. Just meant I'm not sure I could proactively turn them in if they were asking me to bend the truth over something minor. Asking me to lie regarding a missing child? Yeah, I'd turn them in.

 

[TykeyTrouble]

I really am curious as to this supposed witness. Despicable act to cover for a murder of a child, friend or no.

I imagine that the eye witness is the lady mentioned in this Telegraph article:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nd-relaxed-claims-last-person-to-see-her.html

It's very odd - don't know if she thought she was doing her friend a favour or if she was just genuinely mistaken about the day. Odd to be so adamant about Tia looking happy and relaxed though.

 

[nursebeeme]

Police were searching for Stuart Hazell, 37, after a body was discovered at Christine Sharp's house in New Addington, Croydon, earlier.

Tia, 12, went missing from the house last Friday.

Mr Hazell was arrested in Merton, south London, at 20:25 BST after he was identified by a member of the public.

He is in police custody. A murder investigation was launched after police searching for Tia found a body

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19214970

 

[Marilynilpa]

In addition, most sentences are an insult to the victim and victims' families, imo. Sentencing of say 14 years, released after 8 or even fewer years? Yet the victims and their families are condemned by killers to literally, life-sentences

Tia, for example: a young girl of 12. She doubtless had hopes, dreams and who knows what opportunities and happiness may have come her way had she been permitted to live a full life. Gone now. All murdered victims are gone and along with them goes the life-force of those who loved them, in most instances. All so the killer can spend a few years in jail, ministered to by rafts of psychologists, psychiatrists and conveniently anonymous members of parole boards who have NOT suffered, who do NOT relive the loss and pain of a murdered loved-one on daily, hourly basis

Then, having served what passes for a 'sentence', the killers are released from prison. Their teeth have been repaired. Many have learned marketable skills, degrees, etc. Their health has been attended to, along with free board and keep. They've formed friendships in many instances. Well-meaning individuals often find work for them or provide them with new identities. And off they go to enjoy another 30, 40, 50 years of life -- life in the sun, in the fresh air, watching tv, playing sport, forming new relationships, all of which they denied on permanent basis to their victims who are beneath the ground, decomposing, turning to a pile of bones as the public moves on, the world moves on and grass grows over victims' graves and their loved ones finally die too

If SH killed Tia, I would choose for him to lose his life in the same way he denied Tia her life. In fact, I'd choose for him to be thrashed within an inch of his life before he exits this planet, in order he might understand as he takes his last breath what fear and pain feel like just before death. Then God can have him and 'rehabilitate' him, whatever. Imo, it is a gross injustice and insult to the victim for killers to enjoy what they stole from someone else. For killers to be released and for it to be proclaimed they've 'paid for their crime' is, to my mind, and insult to the victim. But of course, the victims get no say, do they. Victims don't get 'a second chance' in the way their killers do

By all means, if science finds a way to bring victims back to life and give them a 'second chance', then I might be a bit more open to the idea of killers being granted a second chance too, with conditions

All I can say is: :goodpost:

 

[Marilynilpa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19214970

I am SO glad he has been found. Kudos to the alert citizen who identified him.

 

[wfgodot]

The Independent's lede is similar, I'd think, to one which will be seen in broadsheets and tabloids alike:

Scotland Yard is facing difficult questions after detectives searching for the missing schoolgirl Tia Sharp found a body yesterday at her grandmother's house, where the 12-year-old was last seen seven days earlier.
---

 

[fabgod]

This might be wrong but there is always the chance that the ground floor could be floorboards and not a solid floor, if this is the case,there will be a void underneath that would be possible to conceal a body in.

If it was wrapped well enough, it may not smell for quite a long time, if the death was not a bloody one (sorry, dont wish to be graphic) there would be no reason to expect a blood dog to alert, there may be a chance that Tia's scent would have been everywhere anyway so even if the did alert, they may be accepted as the girl had been in the premises.

Hazell did make quite a point of saying about the rugs on the floor, maybe he was subconsciously marking the spot?

With regard to the loft, again, it could have been wrapped well and maybe even placed in the water tanks that are in many lofts in houses in the UK.

Finally, I dont think there is any doubt that Hazell is deeply involved, but its a possibility that he didnt actually kill her and he was covering up for another person?
Just my thoughts and RIP Tia Sharp, such a sin.

 

[Adorabella]

Interesting that SH was arrested in Merton - the area in which Tia actually lived. Wonder who he might have been visiting there?