GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[graceholl]

Hi Sar2 and welcome also!
The other thing that makes me wonder abou Hazell is that he was apparently pretty drunk as you mention, but he was still asking if people had seen Tia and trying to hand out leaflets.
Now I know everyone behaves differently when they have had a drink, but people do seem to forget what they are saying quite often and tell the truth.

I wonder if he is taking the blame as some kind of misguided show of love to CS?

Glad I'm not the only one who has thought along these lines too!

 

[graceholl]

twitter:
"@skynewsgatherer: Ms Mary Poku is defending Stuart Hazell Mr Kedar Joglekar is the chair. #TiaSharp" How can anyone defend this scum

Thank you! I'm an idiot, I looked through her tweets trying to find the name too. :banghead:

ETA: Hmm. Worrying!

 

[Paulette]

From the Daily Mail, a little conflicting...
Officers had previously conducted a full search of the house and a second sweep using dogs trained to detect dead bodies. Colleagues suspect the body was behind a door connecting the loft to that of an adjacent property.
Sources claimed a team who spent two hours searching the property last Sunday did not check the neighbouring loft space because they needed a search warrant.
A further search of Sharp’s house began on Friday morning when a junior officer insisted a sniffer dog was ‘indicating’ towards a bedroom ceiling. The officers themselves could also smell decomposition.
Initially a senior officer co-ordinating the search said the loft had already been checked but was persuaded to change his mind.
Colleagues lifted the loft hatch and saw a large ‘container’, possibly a rigid suitcase, containing Tia’s body with her arms and legs sprawled outside.
I think that the part about the neighbouring property can be ignored.

OMG! I don't even have words...Do you have a link for this article?

 

[TykeyTrouble]

Hi guys,

After lurking for some months I've finally gotten round to verifying my email address.

A few of my thoughts:

To me this smells of a set up. I can't put my finger on it but there's just a whole lot of little things which tell me he's been turned into a fall guy. A few points I'd like to make:

1. He definitely seems the submissive of the pair in his relationship with grandma. From what we've seen of him (from press footage and the conference) he seems definitely more submissive and eager to please people in the family (especially the grandma) whereas the grandma has always been bold and brash.I'm sure he has his moments as does every one but to me he seems like he's not hhad the best llife and is eager to cling to the one hhes in attm hence the swapping from daughter to mother.

That being said it raises 2 further points for me. Firstly if he did kill her (which admittedly it doesn't look good) I don't think he's got the intellligence to concoct a credible ploy on his own, to hide her body, clean up and certainly to lie to the grandma as I'm sure shed have wanted answers and I can imagine her being quite aggressive imo. And I don't see him confessing to her either as I'm quite certain shed have killed him as by all accounts she seems to have a temper on her. But that then leads me to ask in both scenarios why she went along with the lie of checking the fair unless it was to cover something up?

What if we've been looking at it the wrong way and something happened between tia and her grandma. With grandma persuadinggthreatening sh to help with the aftermath in order to continue living within the family (or perhaps she has other "dirt" on him which she could have used.

What's also bothered me was the initial discrpency with her work ( she was at home, then at work and the llong shift it seemed she'd done). Having family who've worked in the care industry I've been thinking the following;

Firstly was she doing what is deemed as a "split shift" I.e working say 6-10 then 11-6am. Its quite common within the industry and you don't have to stay at the work place in between. Could she have been doing this and come home in the time between? May account for the home/work descrepancy and also what seems like a long shift (when in fact it was two smaller ones).

Also what kind of carer was she? Was she based at one place or was she what's termed as a outreach/community carer? Community carers travel to individuals homes to provide care. Again in this case its also possible to go home between calls and then go on to the next patient.

Hope this makes sense and sorry for any typos, I'm on my phone and it has a mind of its own

In response to your post:

1) I do not know why people perceive him to be all meek and mild and submissive. He was using a whiny pathetic meek "I wouldn't hurt a fly" voice in the interview because he is manipulative and that is how he wants to be perceived. There were glimpses of his ability to anger when he talked about the phone charging. We know for a fact he dealt crack, we know for a fact he was caught in possesion of a machete - these are not the actions of weak submissive types. We can also see further evidence of his manipulative ways when he goes over to Tia's father (Mr Carter) on the Saturday that he visited the house and laid a hand on his shoulder and looked him sincerely in his eyes.

Whether she has a temper ir not (and there was evidence of impatience when she backed into a reporter's equipment in her car) we do know for a fact that CS has never been charged with a violent act because her CRB must be clean in order for her to work where she does.

2) I have always been very confused about why CS was out of the house so long. In one of her facebook posts she refers to someone as being "Mrs Boss". This person in the manager of a local privately run residential (24 hour) home for adults with learning disabilities so I am assuming this is where CS did her night shift. In my experience night shifts barey last longer than 12 hours although you do often get a significant break in the middle. I wonder if they have CCTV to show if she left the premises?

I have posited that maybe she did a night shift there followed immediately by an early shift somewhere else which would explain why she would not return to the house until half two. If that was the case she must have been knackered when she returned.

 

[graceholl]

OMG! I don't even have words...Do you have a link for this article?

I think that was hearsay. Major newspapers/channels are now running with the fact she was wrapped in a black bedsheet and possibly black bin liners too I believe, including the Daily Mail who reported this previously.

 

[soozieqtips]

I wonder, if after 8 days, they can even get a reliable time of death? If Tia had been discovered on Sunday, 2 days after she went 'missing', I imagine it would have been easier to get a more accurate time of death, but I don't know because I'm not a pathologist.

If they are able to establish an approximate time of death, all Gran needs to prove is that she was working and not in the house at the time and therefore couldn't possibly have taken a direct part in the murder.

Presumably the police have already established her whereabouts for Thursday night / Friday morning.

 

[sar2them]

I've said from the beginning that whilst I think he's involved in the aftermath I honestly don't think he's the one to do it imo.

Also if their lloft hatch is anything like mine (and I guess they are a standard size) then I'm certain it would have taken more than one person to put the body up there. I can't see how one person could climb a ladder with the body and man handle it through the hatch.

 

[graceholl]

I wonder, if after 8 days, they can even get a reliable time of death? If Tia had been discovered on Sunday, 2 days after she went 'missing', I imagine it would have been easier to get a more accurate time of death, but I don't know because I'm not a pathologist.

If they are able to establish an approximate time of death, all Gran needs to prove is that she was working and not in the house at the time and therefore couldn't possibly have taken a direct part in the murder.

Presumably the police have already established her whereabouts for Thursday night / Friday morning.

Hopefully they will still be able to analyse stomach contents etc to get at least a rough idea. I mean all circumstantial evidence points to her being killed the night before she was reported missing, so if the autopsy can go at least some way to validate that, then I imagine that is what the prosecution will go with. Let's hope it's enough that the defence can't then pick it apart.

 

[graceholl]

I've said from the beginning that whilst I think he's involved in the aftermath I honestly don't think he's the one to do it imo.

Also if their lloft hatch is anything like mine (and I guess they are a standard size) then I'm certain it would have taken more than one person to put the body up there. I can't see how one person could climb a ladder with the body and man handle it through the hatch.

Who would have done it then? I believe he is responsible physically for the girl's death but I don't believe he acted alone before or after it happened.

 

[wfgodot]

OMG! I don't even have words...Do you have a link for this article?

It's from Sunday's Mail article, here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ther-breaks-house-body-lay-week.html?ITO=1490

That account has been dropped from its updated coverage today.

 

[fabgod]

I've said from the beginning that whilst I think he's involved in the aftermath I honestly don't think he's the one to do it imo.

Also if their lloft hatch is anything like mine (and I guess they are a standard size) then I'm certain it would have taken more than one person to put the body up there. I can't see how one person could climb a ladder with the body and man handle it through the hatch.

Get in the loft and then drag it up on a rope?

 

[sar2them]

Who would have done it then? I believe he is responsible physically for the girl's death but I don't believe he acted alone before or after it happened.

If he's physically responsible (which I'm not 100% he was imo) then I think he would definitely have needed help and my bets on the nan.

But similarly if someone else was responsible for her death I believe he was "roped" into helping with the clean up.JMO

 

[laserdisc10]

No, I really do not believe he has been dating his ex-gf's mum based for 5 years (?) based on any suspicion. Totally wrong. Sorry

Could you explain please?

 

[graceholl]

If he's physically responsible (which I'm not 100% he was imo) then I think he would definitely have needed help and my bets on the nan.

But similarly if someone else was responsible for her death I believe he was "roped" into helping with the clean up.JMO

Fair enough. I suppose the nan could have hit her and accidentally taken it too far, and then roped SH into the clean up and hiding the body, BUT if the police had any suspicion about CS's involvement surely she'd be in a cell too on whatever charge it was. I'm guessing she's got a solid alibi for when the killing took place (and to me it seems obvious it was the night before she was reported missing when CS was at work). I don't think she's 'innocent' but I don't think the police would allow her to walk free if they suspected anything at all of her involvement.

 

[graceholl]

Breaking

"@Danny Shaw ‏@DannyShawBBC
#TiaSharp More details about Tia's death...there were bruises to her body. One possible cause of death - not yet established - smothering"

 

[MobyBluff]

I've said from the beginning that whilst I think he's involved in the aftermath I honestly don't think he's the one to do it imo.

Also if their lloft hatch is anything like mine (and I guess they are a standard size) then I'm certain it would have taken more than one person to put the body up there. I can't see how one person could climb a ladder with the body and man handle it through the hatch.

He's a big fella. She was 4ft 5. Easy! but that doesn't mean he did it alone, merely that he could have done it alone.

 

[katydid23]

Get in the loft and then drag it up on a rope?

And she was pretty small in comparison to him and he would have been very amped up with testosterone and fear at the same time. I think he could have managed on his own. [ but I am not sure that he did.]

 

[Skigh]

Hi Sar2 and welcome also!
The other thing that makes me wonder abou Hazell is that he was apparently pretty drunk as you mention, but he was still asking if people had seen Tia and trying to hand out leaflets.
Now I know everyone behaves differently when they have had a drink, but people do seem to forget what they are saying quite often and tell the truth.

I wonder if he is taking the blame as some kind of misguided show of love to CS?

Welcome Sar2,

I thought handing out the leaflets was an odd thing to be doing. He must have known it was only a matter of time before the smell in the house would become very obvious ,so even if the police had not searched the loft again ,Tia would be discovered in the next day or so.

 

[josie1986]

I have no idea but if you google the Barrister who represented him today she has a glowing history in acquittals in this sort of case....

Uh let's hope they have some concrete evidence then I certainly don't want him roaming the streets

Hi guys,

After lurking for some months I've finally gotten round to verifying my email address.

A few of my thoughts:

To me this smells of a set up. I can't put my finger on it but there's just a whole lot of little things which tell me he's been turned into a fall guy. A few points I'd like to make:

1. He definitely seems the submissive of the pair in his relationship with grandma. From what we've seen of him (from press footage and the conference) he seems definitely more submissive and eager to please people in the family (especially the grandma) whereas the grandma has always been bold and brash.I'm sure he has his moments as does every one but to me he seems like he's not hhad the best llife and is eager to cling to the one hhes in attm hence the swapping from daughter to mother.

That being said it raises 2 further points for me. Firstly if he did kill her (which admittedly it doesn't look good) I don't think he's got the intellligence to concoct a credible ploy on his own, to hide her body, clean up and certainly to lie to the grandma as I'm sure shed have wanted answers and I can imagine her being quite aggressive imo. And I don't see him confessing to her either as I'm quite certain shed have killed him as by all accounts she seems to have a temper on her. But that then leads me to ask in both scenarios why she went along with the lie of checking the fair unless it was to cover something up?

What if we've been looking at it the wrong way and something happened between tia and her grandma. With grandma persuadinggthreatening sh to help with the aftermath in order to continue living within the family (or perhaps she has other "dirt" on him which she could have used.

What's also bothered me was the initial discrpency with her work ( she was at home, then at work and the llong shift it seemed she'd done). Having family who've worked in the care industry I've been thinking the following;

Firstly was she doing what is deemed as a "split shift" I.e working say 6-10 then 11-6am. Its quite common within the industry and you don't have to stay at the work place in between. Could she have been doing this and come home in the time between? May account for the home/work descrepancy and also what seems like a long shift (when in fact it was two smaller ones).

Also what kind of carer was she? Was she based at one place or was she what's termed as a outreach/community carer? Community carers travel to individuals homes to provide care. Again in this case its also possible to go home between calls and then go on to the next patient.

Hope this makes sense and sorry for any typos, I'm on my phone and it has a mind of its own

welcome to ws:welcome:

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TykeyTrouble]

I've said from the beginning that whilst I think he's involved in the aftermath I honestly don't think he's the one to do it imo.

Also if their lloft hatch is anything like mine (and I guess they are a standard size) then I'm certain it would have taken more than one person to put the body up there. I can't see how one person could climb a ladder with the body and man handle it through the hatch.

Originally I thought that. Getting stuff into lofts is so much easier with two people although the more I think about it the more I think he could do alone. I remember one case where a police officer found a body in a cupboard and was amazed at how little space it took up. I think SH put Tia into a black holder and then was able to get that into the loft on his own. I am beginning to suspect that there was no ladder at all in the house and all he had to do was stand on a chair probably putting the holdall round his neck when getting on the chair and the lift the holdall which would I am guessing be around 7ish stones in weight into the loft.