GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[laserdisc10]

Possible scenario: (for whatever reason) Tia falls down the stairs (possibly during an argument) and then starts screaming, SH/G'ma (whomever) could have put their hand over her mouth to cover the noise, resulting in death.

No idea (obviously) if this is what happened but as I said earlier, so many possibilities, not necessarily as dramatic and unpleasant as others.

Yes, I'm remaining outside the more unpleasant speculations too. Regarding the hand over mouth, though - even a small child will fight for its life automatically if deprived of air ... arms, legs kicking, wriggling to get free. Only the most demented, out of control adult would continue to deprive a child of air to the point of death and that adult would have to be powerful and probably enraged. I know, because it happened to me when I was a child

 

[Cherwell]

So are you saying that the post mortem has been comlpeted but they dont want to tell anyone the results ??

I'm saying that publicising the results is not their number one priority.

 

[sar2them]

Just spoken to an old schoolfriend of mine who works in the path lab at my local hospital - she pointed out that DNA profiling can take between 3-5 days to obtain and thats when they get to it. Apparently there tends to be a backlog and even with the most urgent cases theres a few days delay before they start work

 

[Lola68]

Hi Sar2 and welcome also!
The other thing that makes me wonder abou Hazell is that he was apparently pretty drunk as you mention, but he was still asking if people had seen Tia and trying to hand out leaflets.
Now I know everyone behaves differently when they have had a drink, but people do seem to forget what they are saying quite often and tell the truth.

I wonder if he is taking the blame as some kind of misguided show of love to CS?

Not sure if I'd go that far (in terms of defending SH's innocence) but as soon as I read reports of him being drunk my first thought was that alcohol usually makes people confess/slip up but SH was continuing with his story (not that I believe the story, but still seems weird to me that he would continue with it whilst very drunk and seemingly upset). But maybe he often got drunk and it didn't make him confessional - I just know that I can't keep a secret if I've had something to drink!

 

[Cherwell]

If I remember correctly I thought that Tia's step father thought Tia was going to the shopping centre in Croydon and would be back there at 6pm.If that is so why change her plans and go to Grans -she did not appear to have a change of clothes with her.

No. When DN spoke of her being back at 6pm, he was repeating SH's account of Tia's alleged departure from her grandmother's house. It was hearsay.

 

[user484]

The Coroners Rules 1984

the post-mortem examination should be made,whenever practicable, by a pathologist with suitable qualifications and experience

if the coroner is informed by the chief officer of police that a person may be charged with the murder, manslaughter or infanticide of the deceased,the coroner should consult the chief officer of police regarding the legally qualified medical practitioner who is to make the post-mortem examination;

Post-mortems do get delayed simply because different cases require different experts, and these experts may not always be available.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Sky News reporter says on TV that it's "UNUSUAL" to stop a post mortem. So back to my earlier question......what is there to be gained form pausing it. You just get more decomposition surely? Is it possible that it has been completed, but the results are not being made public. If so, why?

Post Mortem (my self-correcting iPad first wrote Mortimer) inconclusive due to delay in finding Tia's body?

Just a thought...

 

[Adorabella]

Yes, I'm remaining outside the more unpleasant speculations too. Regarding the hand over mouth, though - even a small child will fight for its life automatically if deprived of air ... arms, legs kicking, wriggling to get free. Only the most demented, out of control adult would continue to deprive a child of air to the point of death and that adult would have to be powerful and probably enraged. I know, because it happened to me when I was a child

Unless the child was already badly injured from falling down the stairs, for example, and was unable to struggle?

 

[laserdisc10]

THURSDAY 2 AUGUST taken from evening standard timeline

EVENING: Tia’s grandmother Christine, 46, goes to work a night shift as a carer, leaving Tia at her house with Mr Hazell. In a television interview later (Aug 9) Mr Hazell described the events of the evening: "Did we have a meal? Yeah, because when we went to the Co-Op we bought these things - well, I bought them for Chris but then Tia ate them - three of these lollies, Nobbly Bobblys. She was going to eat the last one but I told her no, to leave it for her nan. Yeah, we had pizza and chips." He adds the two played on a PlayStation.

AFTERNOON: Stuart Hazell, the partner Tia Sharp's grandmother for five years, meets the schoolgirl in Croydon. The pair travel home together by tram.

If I remember correctly I thought that Tia's step father thought Tia was going to the shopping centre in Croydon and would be back there at 6pm.If that is so why change her plans and go to Grans -she did not appear to have a change of clothes with her.

When she appears used to travelling on her own to Grans why did SH go to meet her in Croydon.

Is it possible that she had in some way been blackmailing SH and she wanted some money for her shopping trip and got him to meet her in Croydon.He then told her she would have to come back to the house to get some money.

Was Gran in the house when they got back or had she already left for work?

BBM

I've wondered the same thing. Did Tia contact SH prior to leaving home in order to arrange to meet?

Or, did she contact SH or did he contact her after she'd left home, in order to arrange to meet. Tia was using NS's phone we're told

Secondly, when Tia didn't return home by six, did she contact home to let them know she'd be staying over at SH/CS place? If any of the above, phone records should show

 

[Skigh]

No. When DN spoke of her being back at 6pm, he was repeating SH's account of Tia's alleged departure from her grandmother's house. It was hearsay.

Thank you for this information.
Tia ,still did not seem prepared for an overnight stay

 

[Destroyer]

ETA: Who is Hazell that was apparently arrested?

Tia Sharp was reported missing from her grandparents house on 03/08/12 in New Addington, Kent Uk where she had been staying with her grandmother Christine Sharp & her partner Stuart Hazell.

The whole family raised an appeal for her safe return & members of the public helped search for her.

The police conducted 3 searches of the property in New Addington & on Friday 10th a body was found in the loft wrapped in black bedding & bin liners.

Stuart Hazell managed to go awol during the night, but was subsequently arrested on suspician later that evening in a local park as was Christine Sharp & along with a neighbour who was arrested for assisting an offender.

Stuart Hazell was charged with the murder of Tia Sharp in the early hours of Sunday morning 03.00am uk time, Christine Sharp & the neighbour have been released on police bail.

A post mortem carried out on the recovered body Saturday has been paused & the body has still to be formally identifed or confirmed as Tia Sharp - yet we all assume it is her dur to the fact Stuart Hazell has been charged with her murder.

hope this helps

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

OK, so what you are saying is that as he is an important informant elsewhere that the Police consider him so important that they will try and keep him at liberty despite the "fact" that he has murdered a 12 year old girl? Are you saying that he is so important to the Police that he can just go ahead and murder children?

I am saying that whilst he may be an informant he would not have been getting any special treatment by the police in a murder investigation in which he was a suspect.

Are you suggesting he was?

hey, MobyBluff...

simmer down please...

it's all good here...

we are all on the same side!

thank you!

 

[laserdisc10]

Unless the child was already badly injured from falling down the stairs, for example, and was unable to struggle?

Yes, anything's possible. But if she'd fallen down the stairs, why deliberately smother her, kill her ? Why not phone an ambulance?

 

[wfgodot]

Post Mortem (my self-correcting iPad first wrote Mortimer) inconclusive due to delay in finding Tia's body?

Just a thought...

At least the iPad suggested a name well within the purview of English jurisprudence!

 

[MobyBluff]

hey, MobyBluff...

simmer down please...

it's all good here...

we are all on the same side!

thank you!

Hey I'm cool, just trying to work out what thought process leads to the various ideas being thrown around. I merely asked if that was the suggestion. Perhaps I should have asked "if that's the suggestion, how did you get to thinking its a possibility?"?

I'm cool....

 

[Cherwell]

Possible scenario: (for whatever reason) Tia falls down the stairs (possibly during an argument) and then starts screaming, SH/G'ma (whomever) could have put their hand over her mouth to cover the noise, resulting in death.

What's the chances of that ever-popular defence:

"I was only trying to stop her from screaming"
© I. Huntley, V. Tabak et al

 

[Adorabella]

Yes, anything's possible. But if she'd fallen down the stairs, why deliberately smother her, kill her ? Why not phone an ambulance?

Panic? Ignorance? A drugged/ drunken state? Guilt? Of course, I don't know how or why anyone would behave in any particular way. My point was that 'smothering' could come about from a number of scenarios that weren't necessarily the most gruesome or sexually motivated. A hand over the mouth to quieten screaming/ moaning, would not necessarily be a deliberate act to kill, even if it resulted in death. Just another possibility......

 

[soozieqtips]

If I remember correctly I thought that Tia's step father thought Tia was going to the shopping centre in Croydon and would be back there at 6pm.If that is so why change her plans and go to Grans -she did not appear to have a change of clothes with her.

I think that her plans changed on Thursday. She was initially going to be home (in Mitcham) at 6pm, and then decided to stay with her Gran. Then on Friday, Hazell used the same time, 6pm, to say that's when she was expected back at Gran's place.

What we don't know is if Tia even knew that her Gran wasn't going to be home all night? Unless her home life was pure hell, I can't see why she'd choose to spend the night at Gran's house without her there. Although, according to Gran, Tia used the house as her 'refuge' which doesn't say anything positive about her life with her mum and stepdad, not to me anyway.

No idea why Hazell met Tia at the tram stop. Perhaps Hazell thought he'd pick her up when he did the shopping? I don't think we're ever going to know the truth about what happened. Hazell's quite the liar, and there's no way he's going to go into any detail about the real facts, because they're probably too awful to air - and he knows that. So I expect another pack of lies from him when the time comes.

 

[KR1]

Gran and PM possibly doing drugs together, behind SH's back, Tia witnesses, tells SH, he loses it, they all freak, hide her body, SH leaves the house to buy vodka and is upset about gran and PM, hence drinking

 

[Destroyer]

for all those behind with the story you may find this link useful -

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/tia-sharp-developments-as-they-unfold-8014761.html

it provides a full timeline since Tia Sharp went missing.