GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[Skigh]

BBM

I've wondered the same thing. Did Tia contact SH prior to leaving home in order to arrange to meet?

Or, did she contact SH or did he contact her after she'd left home, in order to arrange to meet. Tia was using NS's phone we're told

Secondly, when Tia didn't return home by six, did she contact home to let them know she'd be staying over at SH/CS place? If any of the above, phone records should show

I would have thought there must have been some contact if they had arranged to meet.
This could just be SH's version of events,although the police would be able to verify using cctv.I was surprised that this was not found and shown on t.v as well as the co-op cctv.

 

[soozieqtips]

No. When DN spoke of her being back at 6pm, he was repeating SH's account of Tia's alleged departure from her grandmother's house. It was hearsay.

Oh. I guess I got confused too, thinking she was supposed to be back in Mitcham on Thursday at 6pm, but then changed her mind and went to stay with her Gran instead. Thanks for clarification.

 

[Cherwell]

Thank you for this information.
Tia ,still did not seem prepared for an overnight stay

We don't know what clothes she had with her. She may have kept some clothes at her gran's as she often stayed there.

I'd say SH's witterings about her clothes and laundry can be disregarded.

 

[laniefi]

I think that her plans changed on Thursday. She was initially going to be home (in Mitcham) at 6pm, and then decided to stay with her Gran. Then on Friday, Hazell used the same time,6pm, to say that's when she was expected back at Gran's place.

What we don't know is if Tia even knew that her Gran wasn't going to be home all night? Unless her home life was pure hell, I can't see why she'd choose to spend the night at Gran's house without her there. Although, according to Gran, Tia used the house as her 'refuge' which doesn't say anything positive about her life with her mum and stepdad, not to me anyway.

No idea why Hazell met Tia at the tram stop. Perhaps Hazell thought he'd pick her up when he did the shopping? I don't think we're ever going to know the truth about what happened. Hazell's quite the liar, and there's no way he's going to go into any detail about the real facts, because they're probably too awful to air - and he knows that. So I expect another pack of lies from him when the time comes.

I have been struggling to understand what was going on at home that THIS house, and the people in it were her REFUGE. What is the source for this please? If this was from a reliable source, I could go two ways...

1. Mom and stepdad are LAME and won't let me do what I want to do. I will go stay with Grandma and her boyfriend - they let me do anything.

2. Legitimate trouble with mom and stepdad

 

[laserdisc10]

Panic? Ignorance? A drugged/ drunken state? Guilt? Of course, I don't know how or why anyone would behave in any particular way. My point was that 'smothering' could come about from a number of scenarios that weren't necessarily the most gruesome or sexually motivated. A hand over the mouth to quieten screaming/ moaning, would not necessarily be a deliberate act to kill, even if it resulted in death. Just another possibility......

I understand and agree about steering away from gruesome, sexual motivations. All I was attempting to convey is that an adult holding a hand over a crying/screaming child's airways because the adult doesn't want the embarrassment/shame of neighbours overhearing is that the adult would have to be in out of control rage to continue holding that hand as the child ceases to attempt to breathe, to struggle, to cry. At some point between stifling the child's noise and smothering the child is a window in time when even the most enraged adult would realise they'd gone too far

When I asked 'why not call an ambulance', I wasn't asking directly of you, more a general question - trying to make sense of it. SH and CS supposedly genuinely loved the child and if she'd fallen or even if one of them had pushed her too hard (resulting as suggested in a topple down the stairs) all concern about neighbours would usually be overtaken by concern for the child's welfare, at which point, even the most callous of adults would summon help for the child in preference to seeing her die. As to smothering via the method discussed, it takes longer than a minute, I'd hazard, to smother a child to death. And there'd be visible and tactile clues that the child was actually dying before they finally succumbed

 

[soozieqtips]

I have been struggling to understand what was going on at home that THIS house, and the people in it were her REFUGE. What is the source for this please? If this was from a reliable source

Here you go.

http://news.sky.com/story/971313/tia-body-hunt-met-police-apologise-for-delay

Sky's crime correspondent Martin Brunt said of Christine Sharp: "She was arrested at some stage last night (Friday) after the arrest of her boyfriend Stuart Hazell.

"Christine Sharp very often provided accommodation for Tia at weekends. She told us when we spoke to her on Monday that Tia used her home as a bit of a refuge.

"As far as last Friday is concerned (the day Tia vanished), Christine told us she was working overnight on Thursday night. She was doing a night shift and she wasn't in the house the next morning, on Friday morning, when Tia was last seen.

 

[Cherwell]

What we don't know is if Tia even knew that her Gran wasn't going to be home all night? Unless her home life was pure hell, I can't see why she'd choose to spend the night at Gran's house without her there. Although, according to Gran, Tia used the house as her 'refuge' which doesn't say anything positive about her life with her mum and stepdad, not to me anyway.

There are all sorts of reasons why kids like staying with other relatives and friends. I remember liking going to stay with one old auntie simply because of the donkey in a nearby field. Probably Tia had some friends among the local kids. With two small brothers taking up her mum's attention, she may also have liked to get away sometimes and be the "baby" again herself - hence "refuge".

 

[sar2them]

There are all sorts of reasons why kids like staying with other relatives and friends. I remember liking going to stay with one old auntie simply because of the donkey in a nearby field. Probably Tia had some friends among the local kids. With two small brothers taking up her mum's attention, she may also have liked to get away sometimes and be the "baby" again herself - hence "refuge".

Good point - I myself used to beg to stay at my aunts every weekend as she molly coddled me, let me eat junk and stay up late watching films whereas at home i was the eldest of 4 children and expected to help out around the house etc etc I think coming from CS it should be disregarded anyway she may not have meant to use the word refuge and even if she did based on her other "slip ups" can it be relied upon??

 

[laniefi]

Here you go.

http://news.sky.com/story/971313/tia-body-hunt-met-police-apologise-for-delay

Sky's crime correspondent Martin Brunt said of Christine Sharp: "She was arrested at some stage last night (Friday) after the arrest of her boyfriend Stuart Hazell.

"Christine Sharp very often provided accommodation for Tia at weekends. She told us when we spoke to her on Monday that Tia used her home as a bit of a refuge.

"As far as last Friday is concerned (the day Tia vanished), Christine told us she was working overnight on Thursday night. She was doing a night shift and she wasn't in the house the next morning, on Friday morning, when Tia was last seen.

Thank you so much soozieqtips!!!

Wow, I can only imagine me telling my mom I was going over to grandmas house to stay the night where my moms ex-boyfriend now lived as well! HELL NO - comes to mind as a logical response! YIKES!

 

[Skigh]

Oh. I guess I got confused too, thinking she was supposed to be back in Mitcham on Thursday at 6pm, but then changed her mind and went to stay with her Gran instead. Thanks for clarification.

Soozieqtips I think I might try and google this.I am sure in one of the stepfather's interviews he said that he spoke to her before he left for work and that she said she was going shopping in Croydon.He replied that he would see her at 6pm

 

[TykeyTrouble]

[QUOTE=Cherwell;8258383]What's the chances of that ever-popular defence:

"I was only trying to stop her from screaming"
© I. Huntley, V. Tabak et al[/QUOTE]

I was wondering that myself. I think it may come down to timing. If it is unclear who was in the house at time of death we may see a bit more of a mud-slinging defence with SH saying that CS was responsible. I'm remembering how Jose Baez managed to create doubt by throwing George Anthony into the mix.

If science can prove that SH was home alone I anticipate the traditional "I was just trying to stop her from screaming" tactic but apart from pleading guilty what else can you say really?

 

[Cherwell]

I think coming from CS it should be disregarded anyway she may not have meant to use the word refuge

Two things - first, it's not a direct quote. It's a report from a journalist paraphrasing CS, so she may not have used those exact words.

Secondly, a "refuge" doesn't imply she was being ill-treated elsewhere. I think the word has acquired some baggage from being used in reference to domestic violence. It can just mean a place to take a break, catch one's breath etc. Like a "retreat", which may have been the word sought.

 

[Crazy Mama]

Refuge could mean getting away from her 2 baby brothers for a night.

According to Angie Niles (DN's Mom) Tia loved taking care of her baby brothers and doted on them.

 

[Cherwell]

Soozieqtips I think I might try and google this.I am sure in one of the stepfather's interviews he said that he spoke to her before he left for work and that she said she was going shopping in Croydon.He replied that he would see her at 6pm

Here you are:

He said he last saw Tia on Thursday morning at the family home in Mitcham before he headed to work.
CCTV image of Tia Sharp Tia Sharp was captured on CCTV on Thursday, the day before she vanished

"She was good as gold," Mr Niles said. "I know I am not her real dad, but I have been there since day dot.

"When she left the house she shouted 'Bye' and 'See you by six'."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19159340

In the last line, he is talking about Tia leaving her gran's house, and what she said to SH. He is paraphrasing SH's account. I'm not surprised people are confused. It's sloppy journalism again.

 

[kaos]

Hi, I've been following this from the beginning too but I was curious about the "assisting an offender" charge the neighbour is facing.

Wouldn't that charge only be possible if a person doing the assisting knew a crime had been committed in the first place?

If the neighbour is the one who gave the misleading statement about Tia then wouldn't that simply be obstructing the police or giving a false statement to the police?

 

[laserdisc10]

The step father said NS was not actively searching 'because people follow her '. Strangeness. If my child were missing I either wouldn't know or care that people were following me, or I'd utilize those people to further the search

Step father deferred to SH, saying SH would be making a statement later or words to that effect. Same step father reportedly cried, 'Bring my little girl back' and ' I've been there since year dot '. So why defer to SH ? Why make a convicted crim and small time drug user/seller the family spokesperson. Not as if SH is more eloquent or photogenic etc. than the step father. The step father also 'insisted' according to some media reports that SH was 'hoovering' when the child left the house and had not been the last to see her. The mother claimed there existed 'an independent witness', reportedly and it now appears this was Meehan. Why did all of them support SH's claims ? Who is he, Svengali of the Lindens ?

 

[wfgodot]

Hello kaos, and welcome to WS.

 

[kaos]

Hello kaos, and welcome to WS.

hi wfgodot, thanks for the welcome.

 

[Skigh]

Hi, I've been following this from the beginning too but I was curious about the "assisting an offender" charge the neighbour is facing.

Wouldn't that charge only be possible if a person doing the assisting knew a crime had been committed in the first place?

If the neighbour is the one who gave the misleading statement about Tia then wouldn't that simply be obstructing the police or giving a false statement to the police?

This does seem strange as in other cases people have reported seeing someone when they actually did not . Maxine Carr lied about her whereabouts and was only charged with perverting the course of justice.

 

[Inge Jones]

Let's not forget, CS was arrested under suspicion of murder, not assisting an offended, nor perverting the course of justice. She is now on bail from that arrest - which is still for murder, not some lesser offence. So when she is called back in she may be subsequently released without charge if they still have no evidence, or she could join SH on a murder charge.