GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[katydid23]

Just an alternative theory and one that I myself am quite convinced by:

I get the impression that SH and Tia were close. He was probably the "cool" step grandfather figure, letting her eat junk, playing playstation with her, etc. etc. The reports of him crying and buying alcohol asking people if they'd seen her on the day he was arrested seem to back this up. I believe he killed her, but I do also believe he loved her. Hence perhaps why her body was not dumped as is often the case with murder victims. Perhaps he knew his time was up, but he couldn't bring himself to accept her death himself, let alone confess to being responsible. Thus he hid the body and tried to forget about it - backed up by his lengthy interview which we know many were quite taken in by.

I think it was a horrible accident and an argument gone terribly wrong. I imagine SH had been drinking, and perhaps Tia was playing up. But I don't see this as a pre-meditated act of evil imposed on a child he hated, but the opposite. I'm not excusing him in the slightest and I believe he should pay for his actions, but as dysfunctional as the family may be, I - at this stage - believe SH and Tia were close and that it was an accident that he is deeply upset about.

Re reading this I sound like I'm excusing him - please don't think that's the case!

O h, I think he ' LOVED' her too. I think he loved her so much that when her mom dumped him he went and moved in with Grams.

I think he had been messing with her emotionally and sexually, for a couple of years. There was a report mentioned that she had not gone there for awhile. And just began going again. I am wondering if she stayed away because she was sick of his messing with her.

And MAYBE, he tried something again, and she is older and wiser and she stood up to him. And she may have said she was going to tell grandma or she was trying to get her cell to call her stepdad...when she was attacked from behind. :rose:

 

[graceholl]

Your theory is plausible. Personally, I don't think he either loved or hated her. I think the feeble and unsuccessful attempt to cry in the interview demonstrates that he did not love her. When he was crying before being arrested he was a man under incredible stress and was fearing that the jig was up in my opinion. I think he went to hand out leaflets as a) an excuse to get access to alcohol and b) as an attempt to convince the public that he must be innocent.

However, I don't detect any premeditated hatred towards her either. I think I have made my opinion clear in previous post about the reason for her untimely end.

I can definitely see what you're saying, particularly about his last movements before being arrested. Food for thought certainly.

 

[Amster]

A long time ago; back in the day; "from the very first day."

Thanks!

 

[kaos]

Your theory is plausible. Personally, I don't think he either loved or hated her. I think the feeble and unsuccessful attempt to cry in the interview demonstrates that he did not love her. When he was crying before being arrested he was a man under incredible stress and was fearing that the jig was up in my opinion. I think he went to hand out leaflets as a) an excuse to get access to alcohol and b) as an attempt to convince the public that he must be innocent.

However, I don't detect any premeditated hatred towards her either. I think I have made my opinion clear in previous post about the reason for her untimely end.

I hadn't thought about that one.

I wonder who came up with the candlelight procession idea? The MSM were reporting that it was scented candles they used so were they being used in the house at already that made somebody come up with that idea?

 

[Skigh]

BBM. Yes, and that's almost the same line that SH later used. Except that SH said "be back by six" and mentioned that she didn't take her phone.

Sounds to me like there was some rehearsal going on (but probably Tia's mum didn't want to participate).

I don't think that she had planned on staying overnight.

Like you I think that Tia had not planned to stay at Granny's that night.There is certainly something strange about the mobile phones;hers dead when leaving Mitcham and her mothers out of charge at Granny's .

I wonder if a Shannon Matthews type event had been planned and things went wrong.

 

[Cherwell]

that's almost the same line that SH later used. Except that SH said "be back by six" and mentioned that she didn't take her phone.

Sounds to me like there was some rehearsal going on.

No, I am sure he was paraphrasing SH. Someone has remarked above how they all seem to defer to SH and back up whatever he says. I was struck by how insistent DN seemed to be about confirming that SH didn't accompany Tia to the bus/tram stop but was indoors hoovering. How could he be so positive and unquestioning about something when he wasn't there?

 

[graceholl]

O h, I think he ' LOVED' her too. I think he loved her so much that when her mom dumped him he went and moved in with Grams.

I think he had been messing with her emotionally and sexually, for a couple of years. There was a report mentioned that she had not gone there for awhile. And just began going again. I am wondering if she stayed away because she was sick of his messing with her.

And MAYBE, he tried something again, and she is older and wiser and she stood up to him. And she may have said she was going to tell grandma or she was trying to get her cell to call her stepdad...when she was attacked from behind. :rose:

Personally I would be really surprised if there was a sexual element to this case.

In terms of her not having visited CS and SH in a while, that could be for all sorts of reasons; Tia's mother & stepfather have two baby sons, perhaps this "refuge" they spoke of was a decent night's sleep in a house with no crying babies etc. She was also 12 years old, which is pretty much the age that young girls begin to spread their wings, going out with friends and socialising without parents/grandparents etc. Also, it's summer, a time when us Brits seem to become a lot more sociable and see more of our families, so I don't imagine she had stayed away because of prior sinister actions by SH or CS.

But yes, like I say I highly doubt there is a sexual motive behind the poor girl's murder, but if there is I will gladly stand corrected!

eta: I typed this out in much more detail but then WS went down for me - grrrr - so if it looks like a hurried post, it is!

 

[Clio]

This is perhaps clearer

"The schoolgirl’s father, David Niles, said that he had not slept since Friday awaiting news.

“We are all just in bits,” he said.

“She’s a sweet little girl, she has never been in any trouble, she is a good girl - this just isn’t my little girl.”

He added: “She said she was going out to get some flip flops.

“Last time I saw her was on Thursday morning as I was going to work, she was asleep at the time.

“She went to her nan's that day and was going to come back on Monday.”

“We are at our wits end.”

He said that his daughter had “a few friends” in the New Addington area but that she spent much of her time keeping up with friends on the BlackBerry messenger social network and listening to music."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...l-12-disappears-on-way-to-buy-flip-flops.html

 

[kaos]

No, I am sure he was paraphrasing SH. Someone has remarked above how they all seem to defer to SH and back up whatever he says. I was struck by how insistent DN seemed to be about confirming that SH didn't accompany Tia to the bus/tram stop but was indoors hoovering. How could he be so positive and unquestioning about something when he wasn't there?

He definitely does make those around him believe what he says. Even his own sister was positive he hadn't done anything and supported SH against their own father by stating "he doesn't know what he's saying".

 

[Clio]

BBM. Yes, and that's almost the same line that SH later used. Except that SH said "be back by six" and mentioned that she didn't take her phone.
Sounds to me like there was some rehearsal going on (but probably Tia's mum didn't want to participate).

I don't think that she had planned on staying overnight.

That's because DN is talking about what SH said. See previous post where DN states that she was due to stay at CS's for the weekend

 

[Cherwell]

I've heard of "year dot" and "day one" but not them both combined

I take it as being a long time.

It's not really important, but I've never heard anyone else say "day dot". Perhaps it's a recent coinage, or it may just have been an accidental combination of the two phrases.

 

[Skigh]

This is perhaps clearer

"The schoolgirl’s father, David Niles, said that he had not slept since Friday awaiting news.

“We are all just in bits,” he said.

“She’s a sweet little girl, she has never been in any trouble, she is a good girl - this just isn’t my little girl.”

He added: “She said she was going out to get some flip flops.

“Last time I saw her was on Thursday morning as I was going to work, she was asleep at the time.

“She went to her nan's that day and was going to come back on Monday.”

“We are at our wits end.”

He said that his daughter had “a few friends” in the New Addington area but that she spent much of her time keeping up with friends on the BlackBerry messenger social network and listening to music."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...l-12-disappears-on-way-to-buy-flip-flops.html

Is it bad reporting that gives conflicting stories or has David Niles changed his story.Interesting that he too mentions buying flip flops.

According to SH, Tia did not have any money until he gave her £10:00

 

[fabgod]

Someone has posted about Tia taking her Mums phone because heres was dead, is this true?

Just a thought here but,
What if SH was texting Tia's Mums phone and Tia thought that he knew it was her and not her Mum that Hazell was texting, maybe he only realised what was going on when she arrived in New Addington and by then the game was up?

Its cheaper to text than call nowdays and you wouldnt know who it was if you got a text saying "I'm coming over to yours, meet me at......" etc etc,
He may have thought it was NS and sent messages that a 12 year old was not supposed to see?
Just a thought

 

[Cherwell]

He definitely does make those around him believe what he says. Even his own sister was positive he hadn't done anything and supported SH against their own father by stating "he doesn't know what he's saying".

People were talking about SH "changing his story", but I did think that the father had genuinely got the alleged events of the Thursday and Friday confused. The press were again reporting hearsay, which may not have been an accurate account of what was originally said.

 

[Luna15]

Perhaps mum and dad aren't mum or dad, DNA test can't confirm?

I've been wondering that... she is nothing like SC

THURSDAY 2 AUGUST taken from evening standard timeline

EVENING: Tia’s grandmother Christine, 46, goes to work a night shift as a carer, leaving Tia at her house with Mr Hazell. In a television interview later (Aug 9) Mr Hazell described the events of the evening: "Did we have a meal? Yeah, because when we went to the Co-Op we bought these things - well, I bought them for Chris but then Tia ate them - three of these lollies, Nobbly Bobblys. She was going to eat the last one but I told her no, to leave it for her nan. Yeah, we had pizza and chips." He adds the two played on a PlayStation.

AFTERNOON: Stuart Hazell, the partner Tia Sharp's grandmother for five years, meets the schoolgirl in Croydon. The pair travel home together by tram.

If I remember correctly I thought that Tia's step father thought Tia was going to the shopping centre in Croydon and would be back there at 6pm.If that is so why change her plans and go to Grans -she did not appear to have a change of clothes with her.

When she appears used to travelling on her own to Grans why did SH go to meet her in Croydon.

Is it possible that she had in some way been blackmailing SH and she wanted some money for her shopping trip and got him to meet her in Croydon.He then told her she would have to come back to the house to get some money.

Was Gran in the house when they got back or had she already left for work?

Was he repeating the question that the interviewer asked him??.... If so, WHY? I honestly believe that the pizza in the oven was from the night before, I guess it will show up in the post mortem.... but I think something happened before she'd had a chance to eat the pizza

O h, I think he ' LOVED' her too. I think he loved her so much that when her mom dumped him he went and moved in with Grams.

I think he had been messing with her emotionally and sexually, for a couple of years. There was a report mentioned that she had not gone there for awhile. And just began going again. I am wondering if she stayed away because she was sick of his messing with her.

And MAYBE, he tried something again, and she is older and wiser and she stood up to him. And she may have said she was going to tell grandma or she was trying to get her cell to call her stepdad...when she was attacked from behind. :rose:

I think he was grooming her too.... it appears that she told stepdad that she would be back at 6 - yes, at what point did the plan change? phone records will show.... but was Tia invited over when SH realised CS would be on a double shift? I wonder if mum & stepdad knew that CS would be out all night, and not home till following afternoon...

I honestly dont think CS knew that Tia's body was in the loft, but if the police could smell the decomposition..... why could no one else??

These really are illiterate people and it makes it hard to work out, because they live such different lives to most....

I pray justice is done for Tia, but I fear that the police's failure to find her sooner will help the defences case.

 

[Clio]

Is it bad reporting that gives conflicting stories or has David Niles changed his story.Interesting that he too mentions buying flip flops.

According to SH, Tia did not have any money until he gave her £10:00

This was reported on 5th Aug, two days after DN & NS find out TS is missing. What would you do? Would you question the last person who saw your daughter over and over again to understand every minute detail? Wouldn't you then be able to reiterate what you were told almost word for word?

I don't think there's any suggestion that DN or NS had any part in any of this

 

[Cherwell]

I've been wondering that... she is nothing like SC

Who is SC? Tia was very like her mother's brother DS.

Oh wait - SC is the real father, yes? Yes, Tia clearly took after her mother's side.

 

[graceholl]

It would all make so much more sense if she had either died only a day or two before discovery, or if the body had been moved to the place it was found a day or two before discovery. But it's just not really plausible: plus the police have apologised.

Now we have delays in the post-mortem. A botched handling by LE/medical profession, or just an utterly unusual way for a murderer to behave after his killing?

 

[Luna15]

Who is SC? Tia was very like her mother's brother DS.

Oh wait - SC is the real father, yes? Yes, Tia clearly took after her mother's side.

SC is Tia's birth father - yes Tia definately takes after the mother's side, but the father has such striking facial features and I can see anything of him in Tia?... it happens I guess

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...says-murdered-schoolgirls-father-8037985.html

sorry I didn't realise you edited

 

[Clio]

Someone has posted about Tia taking her Mums phone because heres was dead, is this true?

I'd like to know that too. I've only seen it on here but can't find it reported anywhere in the press.