GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[IHAVENOCLUE]

So did the search go something like this ...

PC responsible for searching, finds a chair, stands on chair and removes hatch. Sticks his head through the opening and shines a torch (flashlight) around the loft area, doesn't see anything worth looking in to, so replaces the hatch and calls it a day.

I don't see how it could be otherwise, as it wasn't until they actually decided to get a ladder and do a proper search, that they found the body. It looks like laziness and incompetence played a big part in this. That's just like opening a door to each room without actually going inside, just eyeballing the place and deciding that she is not there.

Are there lights in the loft?

the black sheet may have been hid in the shadows...

JMO

 

[Destroyer]

Maybe a medical examination would produce evidence of abuse?

SH may have wanted to avoid that?

Just a thought.

What if there were signs on close examination that TS may of been subject to previous sexual abuse but not at time of death, how would that effect this investigation ??

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2012-08-04/fears-grow-over-missing-girl/

hope I have linked this correctly.

The stepfather of missing 12-year-old Tia Sharp has revealed details of the last time he saw her.

Tia has not been seen since leaving her grandmother's home in New Addington, south east London, at around midday Friday.

“The last time I saw her was on Thursday morning [at the family home in Mitcham] before going to work.

She had a friend stay over. She was good as gold.

I know I am not her real dad, but I have been there since day dot. I have fed her and bathed her. I just want her home.

When she left the house she shouted 'Bye' and 'See you by six'. She always takes her phone, but it was dead.

– David Niles, Tia's stepfather


This to me reads as if David Niles expected to see her at their home, not Granny's at 6pm on Thursday.

FWIW...I too understand his statement to mean that the DN expected to see Tia at 6 pm on Thursday... Not Friday.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I remember reading too that Tia hadn't been going to her gran's for a few months and had only started going again.

It was through a link I followed on from here I never paid attention to the newspaper it was in.

I remember reading that ,too.

though I don't have the article at my fingertips.

I wondered what the reason was that she had not been visiting Gran's as much recently.

JMO

 

[Destroyer]

To sell their papers I suppose.

The thing I am finding most irritating in this sad case, is the way that SH is constantly being referred to by Newspapers, (and even on TV news this evening) as her 'step-grandfather'. He is no such thing.... just her Grandma's live-in bloke.
Also they constantly refer to DN as Tia's 'step-father', (and even once or twice as her father).
Again, he is not. He is just her Ma's boyfriend.

Yes i agree, SH is her Grandmothers partner - not Grandfather & DN is not her Stepfather, he is her mothers partner.

I couldnt imagine that TS would ever of refered top SH as her Grandad - more like my mums ex-boyfriend.

I did give it some thought earlier about how long ago exactly was it that NS & SH were together as a couple ?? Because that would of meant possibly at some point TS knew him as her father too !!! How weird is that ?? The man you grew up in your younger years knowing as your father is now your grandfather ??

Mad as it is, i dont know what the facts are here ??

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Like you I think that Tia had not planned to stay at Granny's that night.There is certainly something strange about the mobile phones;hers dead when leaving Mitcham and her mothers out of charge at Granny's .

I wonder if a Shannon Matthews type event had been planned and things went wrong.

And why would a mother with two young sons not want to have a phone handy for emergencies, etc.?

why would she hand over her phone to Tia?

Just wondering...

 

[katydid23]

Personally I would be really surprised if there was a sexual element to this case.

In terms of her not having visited CS and SH in a while, that could be for all sorts of reasons; Tia's mother & stepfather have two baby sons, perhaps this "refuge" they spoke of was a decent night's sleep in a house with no crying babies etc. She was also 12 years old, which is pretty much the age that young girls begin to spread their wings, going out with friends and socialising without parents/grandparents etc. Also, it's summer, a time when us Brits seem to become a lot more sociable and see more of our families, so I don't imagine she had stayed away because of prior sinister actions by SH or CS.

But yes, like I say I highly doubt there is a sexual motive behind the poor girl's murder, but if there is I will gladly stand corrected!

eta: I typed this out in much more detail but then WS went down for me - grrrr - so if it looks like a hurried post, it is!

I would be surprised if there wasn't a sexual motive behind it. Murder is a pretty extreme behavior. And this does not seem like a strict, controlling type guy who would accidentally kill her by spanking her too hard.

He was a fairly young, abusive alcoholic who was spending the night alone with a blossoming young girl. What motive would there be besides a sexual one.

Oh, and she was wrapped in the bedsheets. What does that tell you? JMO

[ I am not at all objective because my uncle raped me for years when I was Tia's age and younger. ]

 

[Destroyer]

[ I am not at all objective because my uncle raped me for years when I was Tia's age and younger. ]

Thats terrible Katydid23 it makes me sad & so sorry to hear that

 

[katydid23]

Thats terrible Katydid23 it makes me sad & so sorry to hear that

Thank you. I am nearing 60 and have had a very wonderful, happy life overall. So I am not saying it to garner sympathy. Just to kind of remind people that chit like that does happen in families. Young girls are sometimes very vulnerable if they spend the night alone with drunk adults.

 

[Luna15]

Are there lights in the loft?

the black sheet may have been hid in the shadows...

JMO

as the police are there to 'shed light on the matter - you'd expect them to to be carrying a torch....

Yes i agree, SH is her Grandmothers partner - not Grandfather & DN is not her Stepfather, he is her mothers partner.

I couldnt imagine that TS would ever of refered top SH as her Grandad - more like my mums ex-boyfriend.

I did give it some thought earlier about how long ago exactly was it that NS & SH were together as a couple ?? Because that would of meant possibly at some point TS knew him as her father too !!! How weird is that ?? The man you grew up in your younger years knowing as your father is now your grandfather ??

Mad as it is, i dont know what the facts are here ??

In fariness, DN is father (allegedly) to two of Tia's brother's by her mother, so I guess that kinda makes him more of a stepdad.... I distinctly remember reading from a relative (DN's mum I think) that DN had been in Tia's life since she was 4, so I guess he was the 'father figure' for 8 years...

 

[Crazy Mama]

Somebody earlier mentioned that one should take screen shots of the grandma's fb wall and there was a response that it was not necessary as the LE would be watching it all carefully (probably as well as searching a property 3 or 4 times)....anyway....one of grandma's 'friends' or should I say relatives, who used to be a funeral director has started to remove old posts....

I have been watching it.....

 

[laserdisc10]

Somebody earlier mentioned that one should take screen shots of the grandma's fb wall and there was a response that it was not necessary as the LE would be watching it all carefully (probably as well as searching a property 3 or 4 times)....anyway....one of grandma's 'friends' or should I say relatives, who used to be a funeral director has started to remove old posts....

I have been watching it.....

Maybe CS is staying with him and deleting things herself. Just a thought

 

[laserdisc10]

Seeing it's a quiet time in here, might mention there's some 'lateral thinking' speculation going on in various fora. One theory (don't know if it's seriously intended or not) suggests the photo allegedly of Tia with the toddler in her arms could possibly be an old shot of NS with younger brother DS. Most have dismissed the suggestion, should add

Added to that is a little discussion about the fact some missing-posters spelled Tia's surname as 'Sharpe', whilst others 'Sharp'. When I first began following the case, I followed the first lead I had, in which the name was spelled 'Sharpe'. Google produced results under both spellings

Re: the CCTV shot of Tia, I did spend several minutes last week studying the photo of Tia and comparing it with the very few available of NS, because at the time there was little information available and I didn't trust any of them. I wondered if something had happened to the child prior to the 'missing' alerts and if NS had stood-in for Tia, as captured in the CCTV photo, in order to mislead the investigation. But although there appeared to be many similarities between Tia and NS (short in stature, thick dark hair, same shape face generally speaking, etc.) I was forced to the conclusion Tia was slimmer than NS, based on the few photo comparisons available

Personally, I'm still suspicious, with the possible exception of the alleged biological father

 

[Crazy Mama]

I think anything is possible, he lives at the other end of the country, so it might be better for her, but she may have restraints on her movements. Would anyone in the family, really want her to stay? Just based on her choice of partner?

 

[laserdisc10]

I think anything is possible, he lives at the other end of the country, so it might be better for her, but she may have restraints on her movements. Would anyone in the family, really want her to stay? Just based on her choice of partner?

Will probably emerge in time, seeing most these days function as if they're entitled to their 15 minutes of fame and with an eye to the media and money

As well, people believe what they choose to believe, don't they? Who amongst us would choose to believe a close family-member could be guilty of murdering a child who is also a close family-member, particularly when there's a readily available villain who just happens to have been charged with that murder

 

[laserdisc10]

Just wittering on before I log-out ... Wondering about the dynamics of the couple SH and CS. She appears to me, based on the very little available, as a 'strong' personality. Nothing wrong with strong personalities of course and life may have altered her original personality along the path. I've a difficult time imagining her as a 'tender' or 'easy-going' person

As to SH, he seems a practiced and glib character, again, very probably moulded by the 'tough upbringing' mentioned online by someone who knew him in their formative years. He wouldn't always have looked as he does now, in fact it's possible to imagine him prior to the devastation wrought by drink and drugs and before the collapse of his face, disintegration of teeth, etc. He's still well-built and appears to keep himself in shape. I see him as very adept at manipulation. He knows what to say and how to say it, knows what people want to hear and believe - all signs of innate intelligence and people skills, again, probably honed from a lifetime of dealing with social-workers, police psychologists, etc. Wouldn't surprise me to learn he reads quite a bit. I do suspect his 'rough diamond' facade is in large part deliberate, more manipulativeness

So it must have been an interesting relationship between SH and CS

 

[Jackalyn]

While it's defined in a couple places, the only use of the term I've found online is from 2010: Since the day dot….

Well I was born in Croydon and have heard that expression countless times. It might be a London one (?) but I think most people in the UK would understand it as meaning 'right from the start.' 'from the beginning' 'from as far back as you can go.'

 

[Jackalyn]

Are there lights in the loft?

the black sheet may have been hid in the shadows...

JMO

IMO the black bag/s will have been bin liners (black plastic sacks that you put rubbish into to put the rubbish in the dustbin.) The sheet and the bin liner might well have masked the smell a fair bit given it was also in the loft. It can mask the smell of cat food for a bit, for example. There was also a ceiling between the rest of the house and the smell meaning it may not have permeated that quickly.

There is unlikely to have been a light- very few of those kind of lofts have lights unless regularly used.

Yes, a cursory torch examination might have resulted in a bin liner hidden under the eaves or behind a water tank being missed, or more likely discounted as being relevant.

CS may not have realised the body was there - she would still be arrested on suspicion of murder because there would still be a suspicion she knew about it or helped - they would need to prove or disprove that.

PM - well that is all very strange. What if he helped put a bag in the loft and thought it was just something that needed storing? Would his fingerprints then be on the bag? Yes, he could be an accomplice, but he could also have been unwittingly involved or made a genuine mistake with the sighting -OR threatened by whoever did the murder. JMO

 

[Crazy Mama]

An initial examination uncovered bruising on her lower body but forensic experts have been hampered by the badly decomposed state of the corpse when it was finally recovered from the sweltering roof space last Friday.
Although Tia had clearly been dead for some time, officers have not been able to rule out that the schoolgirl was alive when colleagues first visited the council house in New Addington, near Croydon, South London, after she vanished a week earlier.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pears-court-charged-murder.html#ixzz23VElkpe3

 

[India99]

I lived on the estate where this happened 2006/07 and lived about 3 or 4 roads away from where the murder happened.

I've read pretty much every post on here and other forums, plus i've been glued to the news ever since this kid was first reported missing.

There are a few things that have made me wonder about this case, the first part being about when she was caught on CCTV at the CO-OP, as far as i'm aware SH had met her somewhere and gone to the co-op with her but what puzzles me more is why that particular co-op as its out of the way of the normal route they would have taken to go home and there is also a co-op on the estate itself.

The next thing is that he first said that he walked her to the tram stop and then said that he didn't but has no idea what happened to her after that.Like i said, i used to live there and the place is covered in CCTV due to the crime that happens there so how did he not realise that she wouldn't be seen at all.

I watched the full 10 minute interview that he gave to the criminologist and pretty much worked out from that that he was lying through his teeth due to the amount of detail he gave.

Now i'm not sure about you but if something bad ever happens you never remember minute by minute what happened in the hours before an incident, for example when my dad died, i don't remember much of what happened before or much of what happened after but i remember those horrible couple of hours during.

I also had a massive lorry accident a few years back and remember the accident itself and the details of those few minutes but couldn't tell you what had happened in the hours leading up to it.

The more details you give that are actually irrelevant to a situation which his account of the day was because there was no need to remember it minute by minute just throws suspicion on whoever is telling the story.

And just to clear a few things up regarding a few things that have been mentioned in posts on this thread and the previous thread.

It was mention that the tram goes through part of the woodland where they were searching - nope, it goes nowhere near it.

The fun fair story was a bit odd as he couldn't remember the name and mentioned Orpington which is a few miles in the opposite direction but he's been apparently living in Croydon for quite a few years, so it seems strange that he would get that wrong unless that was part of a story they were going to use and he slipped up.

The 130 bus is a bus that goes from Croydon town centre to New Addington, 130 being the number of the bus route.

Also regarding the bus, why follow that one, the 64 goes from Croydon to New Addington too so why would they assume she was on the 130 only ?

The houses have walls separating the lofts, i used to live in one and i know this from being in the loft.

No they do not have adjoining doors unless these were put in by either neighbour but i cant think for the life of me why you would do that in the first place.

Why didn't the first search of the loft bring this all to an end ? - the lofts in those houses have no floor in them at all , just joists, not easy to walk on at all, the water tank is actually nearer the front of the house and maybe the body was behind it.This wouldn't be visible from just poking your head up there and shining a torch around.


As for the people that live on the "ADDO" as its known, well , i hated the place but due to my personal situation at the time it was my only option, i've only been back to that estate once in 5 years .

you can stand pretty much anywhere on that estate and throw a stone and i could guarantee you you'd hit a house with people just like these in them.

crime is the main occupation on that estate, people do have jobs etc but mostly they are all scumbags.

also while i was living there i did have a problem with one of the neighbours kids who thought it was fine to play football in my front garden, i went to talk to their parents about it and about 30 minutes after i had the dad who didnt look much different to half the people you've seen on TV came to my house with a baseball bat wanting to kill me because he said his kids should be able to do whatever they like cos i was an "outsider" who had no right to say anything to anybody who lived there.

thats the kind of mentality around that area, they are all the same and the generation who live there now are no different to their parents who pretty much also live on the same estate.

the next generation of these families will be exactly the same as nobody there has any idea how to better themselves and get out.