GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[India99]

If you go to either page 1 of this thread or look below the forum at 'tags', the main names are listed there.


E.T.A. I'll have to take that back as this is the first time I haven't seen Destroyer's post listing all the names within the first couple of posts of the thread

thanks for that, i did look at the big list of abbreviated names and that wasn't on there.

 

[MobyBluff]

True. But bullying can go on outside of school.

I agree that any bruises could have been caused by a multitude of different knocks. You should see my daughters arms and legs after a Sunday football match for instance.

 

[India99]

But, as far as I can tell from looking at the route map, it doesn't go to the Whitgift centre which is where she had supposedly gone - is that right?

The mother of DN, NS's current partner

you're right it doesn't, which is why when i posted the map of the bus route i highlighted the OLD bus route which i didn't know had changed which would have gone to Croydon.

this is why i question the story about her being on one in the first place as she would have had to walk out of Croydon to catch that particular bus.

the more obvious choice would be a 64 bus or the Tram from Croydon back to NA (New Addington)

so either SH was lying about seeing the bus or he's just an idiot.

 

[MobyBluff]

so either SH was lying about seeing the bus or he's just an idiot.

That's putting it mildly!

 

[Clio]

you're right it doesn't, which is why when i posted the map of the bus route i highlighted the OLD bus route which i didn't know had changed which would have gone to Croydon.

this is why i question the story about her being on one in the first place as she would have had to walk out of Croydon to catch that particular bus.

the more obvious choice would be a 64 bus or the Tram from Croydon back to NA (New Addington)

so either SH was lying about seeing the bus or he's just an idiot.

Thanks for confirming. So the reason he talks about the 130 is because it's the bus she would have caught to get home from the fair. He never says that she caught the 130 to get into Croydon, only that they followed the 130 after they alledgedy searched the fair.

 

[wfgodot]

If you go to either page 1 of this thread or look below the forum at 'tags', the main names are listed there.

Incidentally, if there are any names or other items of pertinence that I've missed in the tags, please be sure to add to them, all.

 

[MobyBluff]

Thanks for confirming. So the reason he talks about the 130 is because it's the bus she would have caught to get home from the fair. He never says that she caught the 130 to get into Croydon, only that they followed the 130 after they alledgedy searched the fair.

So is it likely that SH did see a 130 bus upon leaving the fair, meaning that he had likely been there?

if yes then:

Why wouldn't he and CS have asked around for sightings of TS?

 

[kaos]

I don't use playstation or Nintendo DS so can anybody tell me if there is a memory inside both of these items that a forensic computer examiner could determine when they were last used?

The playstation was supposed to have been played on the Thursday night according to SH and the Nintendo DS was supposed to have been played on the Friday morning.

If neither of those machines have been used when he said then the time of death may be easier to point to.

 

[MobyBluff]

I don't use playstation or Nintendo DS so can anybody tell me if there is a memory inside both of these items that a forensic computer examiner could determine when they were last used?

The playstation was supposed to have been played on the Thursday night according to SH and the Nintendo DS was supposed to have been played on the Friday morning.

If neither of those machines have been used when he said then the time of death may be easier to point to.

Good question! I would suggest that the last "best record" on a particular game may have a date and time of setting the record? And if the playstation was played online I'm sure the online account could be accessed to find last time it was played and the IP address it was played from.

 

[Clio]

So is it likely that SH did see a 130 bus upon leaving the fair, meaning that he had likely been there?

Possibly but it might not have been on the Friday night. Or he could just know the bus routes.

if yes then:

Why wouldn't he and CS have asked around for sightings of TS?

He said he they did ask. It's the fairground people who said they don't remember SH/CS asking about TS.

Be good if we had access to that CCTV footage the police have got eh? Then we'd know for sure if they went or not

 

[YidArmyRach]

With regard to Tia's truancy from school and people questioning whether she may have been bullied there. I work at a large secondary school in a poor area, with a high uptake of free school dinners (the usual indicator of a deprived area) so I can only base my thoughts on my experiences. My main area of work is with Year 7 (Tia's age group), and in learning support - again an area Tia fits in.

In my experience, it is actually quite rare for children to truant due to bullying. Most school will have a good anti-bullying policy, and various staff designated to deal with this. From what I have seen, truancy often occurs with children who have problems at home. It may be due to family breakdowns/divorce; where there is a single parent and a large number of children or with families where both parents are unemployed. Sadly, the main reason the children truant, is because there isn't a responsible parent around making sure they go to school. Sometimes the parents simply don't care about the child's education, other times they may be asleep with hangovers (or simply sleep in late on school mornings as they have stayed up very late the night before as no reason to get up early) so they aren't around to ensure the children go to school. Other parents simply can't cope with bringing up their children. Children from homes like this often get drawn to other children with backgrounds similar to their own, so will truant together. They see no reason to get an education, as they don't have appropriate role models or can't see why education is relevant.

Another reason for truanting is children with Special Educational Needs struggle at school, and if they struggle too much and aren't getting the help and support they need, they will first of all misbehave to take attention away from the fact they "can't do it" and make it appear that they "won't do it". This can then lead onto the child simply refusing to go to lessons any more.

Obviously I'm not saying any of this is the case with Tia, but my opinion would be that bullying wouldn't be my first conclusion as to why she wasn't attending school regularly.

 

[MobyBluff]

Be good if we had access to that CCTV footage the police have got eh? Then we'd know for sure if they went or not

I'd never get any sleep if I could access that footage!

 

[kaos]

Good question! I would suggest that the last "best record" on a particular game may have a date and time of setting the record? And if the playstation was played online I'm sure the online account could be accessed to find last time it was played and the IP address it was played from.

I know it wouldn't necessarily prove who was playing the machines but if eg. the playstation was played that night then Tia could well have been alive just before bedtime. I'd doubt SH would have killed her and then sat on the playstation.

 

[kaos]

With regard to Tia's truancy from school and people questioning whether she may have been bullied there. I work at a large secondary school in a poor area, with a high uptake of free school dinners (the usual indicator of a deprived area) so I can only base my thoughts on my experiences. My main area of work is with Year 7 (Tia's age group), and in learning support - again an area Tia fits in.

In my experience, it is actually quite rare for children to truant due to bullying. Most school will have a good anti-bullying policy, and various staff designated to deal with this. From what I have seen, truancy often occurs with children who have problems at home. It may be due to family breakdowns/divorce; where there is a single parent and a large number of children or with families where both parents are unemployed. Sadly, the main reason the children truant, is because there isn't a responsible parent around making sure they go to school. Sometimes the parents simply don't care about the child's education, other times they may be asleep with hangovers (or simply sleep in late on school mornings as they have stayed up very late the night before as no reason to get up early) so they aren't around to ensure the children go to school. Other parents simply can't cope with bringing up their children. Children from homes like this often get drawn to other children with backgrounds similar to their own, so will truant together. They see no reason to get an education, as they don't have appropriate role models or can't see why education is relevant.

Another reason for truanting is children with Special Educational Needs struggle at school, and if they struggle too much and aren't getting the help and support they need, they will first of all misbehave to take attention away from the fact they "can't do it" and make it appear that they "won't do it". This can then lead onto the child simply refusing to go to lessons any more.

Obviously I'm not saying any of this is the case with Tia, but my opinion would be that bullying wouldn't be my first conclusion as to why she wasn't attending school regularly.

I'm curious as to how much leeway she got when at CS's house. SH says she got everything she wanted and I wonder if that also means backchatting SH.

 

[kaos]

Possibly but it might not have been on the Friday night. Or he could just know the bus routes.



He said he they did ask. It's the fairground people who said they don't remember SH/CS asking about TS.

Be good if we had access to that CCTV footage the police have got eh? Then we'd know for sure if they went or not

Wouldn't those number plate recognition cameras also be able to pick up if the car was even on the move within that area?

 

[India99]

So is it likely that SH did see a 130 bus upon leaving the fair, meaning that he had likely been there?

if yes then:

Why wouldn't he and CS have asked around for sightings of TS?

but, if he had left the fair and seen a 130 bus he should have remembered he wasn't in Orpington, which is the place he mentioned when he couldn't remember where the fair was.

 

[India99]

Wouldn't those number plate recognition cameras also be able to pick up if the car was even on the move within that area?

it would depend on how many ANPR cameras are on that particular route

 

[India99]

Possibly but it might not have been on the Friday night. Or he could just know the bus routes.



He said he they did ask. It's the fairground people who said they don't remember SH/CS asking about TS.

Be good if we had access to that CCTV footage the police have got eh? Then we'd know for sure if they went or not

i think the park where the fair was actually has its own CCTV

 

[Clio]

Wouldn't those number plate recognition cameras also be able to pick up if the car was even on the move within that area?

Depends if there are any on route I guess. And assuming nobody plastered mud across the number plates first of course!

 

[MobyBluff]

but, if he had left the fair and seen a 130 bus he should have remembered he wasn't in Orpington, which is the place he mentioned when he couldn't remember where the fair was.

I forgot the Orpington comment. And I find it impossible to believe Tia was also au fait with the Borough of Bromley's geography and transport links.

Remind me, did he say "Orpington" which was corrected by DS?