GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[graceholl]

Didn't Tabak's trial get pushed back? Am I on another planet?

 

[josie1986]

i wouldn't be surprised if they go for manslaughter due to diminished mental capacity or whatever it is called.

imo he is perfectly sane and new exactly what he was doing and had every opportunity to stop.

i just hope that granny will be charged in due course,even if she wasn't aware of what he had done,she clearly had an idea when she lied for him.

the one thing thats still getting me is how the frick could she or anyone else not smell anything.id understand if it was maybe only 1 or 2 hours after death and she wasn't in the house after that but 7/8days in at least 25degrees heat and you cant smell purification?

 

[soozieqtips]

Joanna Yeates was killed in Dec 2011, Tabak's trial was Oct 2011.

Ohhh. I was convinced the trial was in May. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Clio]

Jon Clements‏@JonClementsITV

Lord Carlile says difficult to fix trial date when he doesn't know what the prosecution case is - no cause of death yet known, for example

 

[graceholl]

...


the one thing thats still getting me is how the frick could she or anyone else not smell anything.id understand if it was maybe only 1 or 2 hours after death and she wasn't in the house after that but 7/8days in at least 25degrees heat and you cant smell purification?

Yup me too. Really don't get it. Obvious answer would be that the body was moved. But that doesn't make sense either. :waitasec:

 

[Lola]

I'm guessing you've got big guns because these guys are used to high profile trials. That means less likelihood of mistrial or any other nonsense. Who is prosecuting on this i.e. represents the Crown??

 

[Lola]

wiki for Saunders -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Saunders_(English_judge)

 

[Inge Jones]

Can someone tell me if I remember procedure correctly? Once a person is charged, the police may not question them any further? So the prosecution now has to prepare their case from whatever the defendant has already told them, plus any evidence from other sources that is admissible in court and disclosed to the defence team?

I imagine now therefore they will turn their attention to the other two people on bail, and try to work out whether there is sufficient evidence against them to bring them back in for questioning and potential charges. But unless Hazell himself asks to make a further statement to the police, they can no longer expect any of this further evidence to come from his own mouth?

 

[Cherwell]

Let's hope the prosecution have as much evidence as they did in the Tabak trial (though if I remember correctly a fair amount of that was circumstantial?).

Don't forget that Tabak admitted killing Joanna. The prosecution never had to prove that, only that he intended to kill.

 

[Lola]

interestingly Carlile is a campainger for children's rights -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Carlile,_Baron_Carlile_of_Berriew

 

[Clio]

I'm guessing you've got big guns because these guys are used to high profile trials. That means less likelihood of mistrial or any other nonsense. Who is prosecuting on this i.e. represents the Crown??

Julian Evans

 

[masekwm]

Jon Clements‏@JonClementsITV

Lord Carlile says difficult to fix trial date when he doesn't know what the prosecution case is - no cause of death yet known, for example

I'd be surprised if the first date went ahead. The O'Callaghan trial was meant to take place earlier this year but was postponed following legal argument - that is a weird case as the other murder isn't mentioned!

 

[fabgod]

or it wasn't actually him in the Police car

Have a look at the two haircut photos again and the CCTV of Hazell in the shop buying Vodka or whatever it was, you can see he was wearing a dark polo t shirt, it had white edging to the collar, but in the photo of "Hazell" with no hair in the car, there is no white edging or piping.

It looks like the wrong man in the photo of the car, not that it is important, it just had me thinking!

 

[Clio]

Can someone tell me if I remember procedure correctly? Once a person is charged, the police may not question them any further? So the prosecution now has to prepare their case from whatever the defendant has already told them, plus any evidence from other sources that is admissible in court and disclosed to the defence team?

I think you are correct

At the moment, as much information as it is possible to obtain has to be gained before charges are brought and the accused is taken into custody. After that only defence lawyers have access. From then on additional information can only be supplied to the police if the defendant decides to become an informer or a prosecution witness.

 

[Suzy-sue]

Hi All

I'm a newbie - and very glad to have found this site. I have read through some previous pages on this website but not all - so apologies if i'm repeating any past discussions and i hope i'm not breaching any rules here:

I have several theories:

1) SH was allegedly playing computer games (or similar) with Tia the night before we believe Tia died and i wonder a) did he get a little fresh with her? being of a 12 year old age she could have had the begginings of a nice figure etc and gone from being a child in his eyes to that of a sexual person (alternatively she could have had desires for SH?/ or there could have been mutual desires - who knows?), b) or did they have a giggle and a play around and then he put a cushion or whatever over her as a laugh and accidentally killed her? Was SH's alibi of hoovering the house whilst Tia left etc true or was his detailed description of doing the housework actually a description of him clearing up after a 'murder/accident'? When i first heard about this case as soon as i heard uncle's/ step-relations/ man hoovering - i suspected something within the family. I wonder if SH always helped with the housework?

I was/possibly still am willing to believe SH - except he went into a lot of detail - now if someone asked me what i did yesterday and in what order - i wouldn't have a clue as i do things on automatic pilot. When he was seen drunk - often when people are drunk they become quite honest? He was taking a big risk getting drunk if he had done the crime as he could have blurted out something that could incriminate him... So was he 'acting' drunk, knowing that most shops have CCTV and hoping to use that to his advantage, as proof of his innocence.

What do we know about drug takers/criminals in general - they can be convincing liars - they have to be to get what they want... They need to be good liars to 'borrow' money from friends and family to buy drugs and all the other lifestyle complications that often get in a tangle when drugs etc are involved. So is he an expereinced liar?

2) CS - could she have seen Tia as a threat to her relationship with SH?

2) PM - could it be that Tia did leave the house and PM saw and called to her and in she went to his house and then he killed her and somehow got her body up to his loft and through into SH/CS's loft - do we know what the loft space and arrangement of the lofts were like - could you access other lofts? remembering the Joanna Yeates case when it was the neighbour after all 'who done it' and not the Landlord....

I will be fascinated to see any subsequent photos that maybe be published in months to come - what did the police officer(s) see when they went into the loft and saw a black bag allegedly in plain view and then ignore it? what else was in the loft (i know mine's quite full)...

As to the BR dogs not picking up her scent - i wonder as Tia's scent would have been all over the house that that may not have helped, plus its possible that the house may not have been clean smelling (even if hoovering did occur) e.g. if people smoked in the house and maybe there were smelly bins around etc etc although one would expect a BR dog to be suitably skilled and trained (but how fail-safe are BR dogs?)

I think this Tia case has touched many people - i would say she has a 'look' that is found probably in many families around and most people will know of a 'Tia' type person in their neighbourhoods.

I have to say i have found this case to get more and more perculiar as it's gone on... then with post mortuem being delayed. Also SH hasn't given any plea as yet.

RIP Tia - may the truth come out without further delay and justice be done!

Sue

 

[wfgodot]

Hi Suzy-sue, and welcome to WS.

 

[Lurkio]

You might have the wrong PM. Why would he be in New Addington? Doesn't fit with what I've read about the place.

Because I posted a link earlier in this thread that states PM is originally from Swansea
In particular his family are from a place in Manselton
Once you know that it's not hard to find them and him
so to be clear PM and his own family are not originally from New Addington.
he moved down there for whatever reason, probably work as he found a job as a bus driver

bear in mind a sizeable portion of London's population aren't born and bred

The link was from 'thisisswansea.co.uk' so is reputable source in public domain


one other thing. there doesn't seem to be ANY pictures of PM anywhere

now, with the press camped out SH and PM house for days, he must have come and gone to work etc and they will have got snaps
I think the police gave press express instructions not to publish once he became a witness, then even more so when he became a suspect
the press WILL have pics of him but will be ordered not to publish or else
I believe this is the only logical conclusion

 

[MobyBluff]

Because I posted a link earlier in this thread that states PM is originally from Swansea
In particular his family are from a place in Manselton
Once you know that it's not hard to find them and him
so to be clear PM and his own family are not originally from New Adiington.
he moved down there for whatever reason, probably work as he is a bus driver

bear in mind a sizeable portion of London's population aren't born and bred

The link was from 'thisisswansea.co.uk' so is reputable source in public domain

Why no pics whatsoever of PM??

 

[soozieqtips]

1) SH was allegedly playing computer games (or similar) with Tia the night before we believe Tia died and i wonder a) did he get a little fresh with her? being of a 12 year old age she could have had the begginings of a nice figure etc and gone from being a child in his eyes to that of a sexual person (alternatively she could have had desires for SH?/ or there could have been mutual desires - who knows?)

She was 12 and she looked 12. I highly doubt she had sexual feelings for Hazell. Of course, I don't know the family history and what went on before, but to me, Tia just looks like a regular 12-year-old girl, unlike some who look 18!

 

[Lurkio]

Why no pics whatsoever of PM??

i edited post above and addded my thoughts