GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[kaos]

http://www.itv.com/news/2012-08-17/itv-news-exclusive-tia-sharp-family-referred-to-social-services/

Going back to this article somebody posted earlier,

I understand that over the last five years police and other agencies have referred Tia Sharp's family to Merton Social Services on a number of occasions.

More than once, it has been been about issues surrounding the abuse of Class A drugs by members of Tia Sharp's family and on another occasion police referred the family to social services after they were called to some kind of disturbance at her home.

On each occasion social services examined the information and a decision was made not to allocate a social worker to the family and the case was effectively closed - the last time being around a year ago.

There are two things we should stress here - firstly none of these incidents involved or related to Stuart Hazell, the man charged with murdering Tia who is the boyfriend of her grandmother.

1) Mentions family members - i.e. in the plural

2) It's stated that it's her home and not the grandmother's.

3) That implies other family members of being involved with Class A drugs as recently as a year ago, so which members?

 

[Lola]

all O/T topics aside,it still comes down to the fact that there are estates like this all over the country and how many TS cases is it going to take before something is done to really protect these kids who had no choice about being brought into the world they ended up in.

these kids have to survive until they are at least 16 before they can make the decision to leave by which time its too late for a lot of them.

True, but everyone whinges about the nanny state and on the flip side whinges when it doesn't nanny enough. :banghead:

 

[kaos]

I agree, apologies. But to move back to the events in New Addington. Perhaps instead of arresting anyone we should GATE New Addington. With Security Guards, one way in, one way out. Cars checked, people searched (strip searched if you have previous) that would stop the crime - or at least contain it! ;-)

So,

a round up of my current "beliefs" which change by the minute.

Thursday afternoon Tia got off the tram early, and met SH in the pub near the co-op. He'd had a few. They bought Pizza and knobbly things in the co-op with his fruit machine winnings. CS was at work.

After drinking more Special Brew SH put the pizza and chips in the oven but forgot to turn it on. Tia asked where her tea was. He got annoyed.

In the morning or later that night he killed Tia for one reason or another (I have my thoughts but don't think I can repeat them as I have nothing real to support them with).

He panicked and grabbed a decorating sheet and wrapped her up. He then took the body to the loft, grabbed some reinforced black plastic sacks and wrapped it up trying to seal the body. The ladder isn't important, he was a decorator.

CS got home, asked about the phone. Asked where Tia was. Out came the lies.

At some point early evening CS decided they needed to do something about it and go on a hunt. Someone such as DS stayed in the house in case TS arrived home.

SH decided that TS had mentioned the fair. He went to the fair looking for a traveller mate for help. The traveller mate had left. So now it was getting tricky. They went to Merton. Tia's mum called the police. West Ham 1- 0 Aston Villa, up the Hammers! CS & SH went back to the house, NS and partner stayed in their home in case TS came back to them.

PM gave a statement saying he'd seen TS, to help SH as he believed the SH's story that she had left, and didn't want his past to catch up with him.

On Friday morning, for the first time, the corpse had started to really really stink, not only in the loft but through the loft hatch. It was this that made SH leave the house and "do his own thing". The dog came round after a tearful and terrified call from CS who suddenly realised where Tia was.

The liaison officer then came to take CS away from the situation while the "pre-planned" (my ar5e) forensic team came in.

The rest in history. I believe all members of the family started to develop suspicions at various stages, but they didn't have any proof - until the decomposing corpse smell started to break through the seal of the loft hatch.

CS was arrested due to SH passing the blame onto CS. She will be found innocent. PM will also be found innocent of his current charge.

SH will end up serving life, which will last hours....before he is systematically taken apart by fellow inmates.

Wish we knew where DS was during the timeframe where she went missing and when the police were finally called.

If he was at CS's home then I'd have expected SH to drop that into his interview somewhere as it would have been logical to mention that he'd phoned DS to find out if Tia was there after arriving at NS's house - before they called the police.

SH made the point that she had no key and would go to a neighbours if nobody was home (but apparently there was always somebody home). Was there even anybody waiting in the house in case Tia came back while they were out?

 

[graceholl]

Because he is innocent?

I got the impression 'panicked'

 

[graceholl]

OK, BREAKING NEWS

ANTI RUMOUR ALERT

My son is at my house today and i've been speaking to him about it and he has told me that one of his friends who i remember coming to our house when i lived there had been staying with a mate who lives 2 doors away from where the murder was.

Their house was also searched, as were a few others along that pathway.

And here is the big one, nobody along that pathway where the house is that the murder took place is has a clue as to what happened.

So anything anybody hears 3rd hand about what DID happen can't obviously be taken as fact.

Ok, fair enough, BUT this is a child. If something happened on my road and I'd been hearing unpleasant rumours I'd probably save my kids ears from it and just say I hadn't heard anything. (I don't have kids - I'm 20 - but hypothetically speaking)

 

[Karenlisam]

OK, BREAKING NEWS

ANTI RUMOUR ALERT

My son is at my house today and i've been speaking to him about it and he has told me that one of his friends who i remember coming to our house when i lived there had been staying with a mate who lives 2 doors away from where the murder was.

Their house was also searched, as were a few others along that pathway.

And here is the big one, nobody along that pathway where the house is that the murder took place is has a clue as to what happened.

So anything anybody hears 3rd hand about what DID happen can't obviously be taken as fact.

Thank you for sharing India

There have been a lot of rumours along the lines of things are about to come out after the postmortem that are so unspeakable that they can't be put into print so it would seem that the people who started these chinese whispers are sick in the head themselves

 

[India99]

Ok, fair enough, BUT this is a child. If something happened on my road and I'd been hearing unpleasant rumours I'd probably save my kids ears from it and just say I hadn't heard anything. (I don't have kids - I'm 20 - but hypothetically speaking)

these are 16 yr olds i'm talking about , not 8 yr olds

 

[India99]

Thank you for sharing India

There have been a lot of rumours along the lines of things are about to come out after the postmortem that are so unspeakable that they can't be put into print so it would seem that the people who started these chinese whispers are sick in the head themselves

also to add, he didn't just walk in and tell me this, it came up during a conversation with him about what he had heard.

i have a feeling the bright lights in his face, the lack of water or food for hours and the very hard questioning he got from me made him give up this info lol

 

[Amber34]

Thursday afternoon Tia got off the tram early, and met SH in the pub near the co-op. He'd had a few. They bought Pizza and knobbly things in the co-op with his fruit machine winnings. CS was at work.

After drinking more Special Brew SH put the pizza and chips in the oven but forgot to turn it on. Tia asked where her tea was. He got annoyed.

I'm intrigued - I've not seen a report saying he was in a pub drinking Special Brew anywhere. Where was this reported?

 

[Lurkio]

did someone mention Lewisham :floorlaugh: ..... ok I'll shut up now

lol
okay, last word on the matter..............Ladywell lol

sorry everyone, back on topic

good point by Skigh earlier about bedsheet
could well have been a spare or old sheet in a drawer somewhere and not readily known about

 

[Adorabella]

I didn't say they were deviant, you did

Odd, no.Unusual.. yes. I think so
certainly not in everyone's linen cupboard. i think it's fair to say most people would not have black bedding sheets? certainly on a single bed.
anyone else feel this?

but more importantly CS will know whether or not it belongs to their house and whether it was on their bed or TS bed the previous night.
is it a single sheet or double/ this will come out in trial no doubt.

If it categorically doesn't belong to their house then that opens another realm of possibility.
If it is a double belonging to them it may open other more sinister lines of enquiry.

imo a lot hinges on that sheet

OMG!!! We have black bed sheets (cotton, not shiny synthetic ones) and red and white and pink and all sorts of colours. They sell (or did sell) them in Ikea (in all sizes and quantities) and we also have some Ralph Lauren ones (from an outlet store). We have one on our bed as the bottom sheet, along with a duvet (sometimes even an animal print pattern!). I wouldn't have the foggiest if a bed sheet was missing unless I was specifically looking for it and as I usually buy two of each anyway, it wouldn't be an issue. Also, no untoward behaviour going on in our home even though we have black bed linen! Personally, other than any DNA/ substances that may be on the sheet, I think it's irrelevant.

 

[Topadvocater]

Hi everyone, I am new here and just been validated. I have been reading this site for a few days and feel that almost everything has been said, however, having watched the TV series ‘lie to me’ I’ve developed a bit of an amateur interest in body language which I thought I would put to the test with the SH interview. There are a few things which struck me straight away. If you examine the ITV tape between 2:01 – 2:21 when he talks about the phone being on charge – that the first sign of true emotion, namely strong irritation, in his voice. My sense is that the phone was actually the cause of the argument that led to Tia’s eventual death (perhaps he struck her in a rage because when she continued to talk on it despite him telling her to leave it charging).
If this was not the cause of the argument, I would have expected him to have sounded a more regretful tone (something like: ‘I told her to leave it alone and now that she is missing I am sorry we had a minor row about a silly issue).

At about 3:40 he talks about what Tia was supposedly wearing and IMO sounded totally confused as if he hadn’t rehearsed this issue. I also notice that he mentioned that he doesn’t know anything about “women’s clothing’ – hardly the way I would describe the clothing of a 12 yr. old. My feeling is that she wasn’t wearing any of this clothing at all when she was found and that he made the whole thing up. This is supported by him suddenly coughing at 3:45 and then licking his lips at 3:56 immediately after saying that she was going to buy flip-flops

I understand that licking your lips after saying something is a strong sign of deception. When people get nervous, their saliva glands cease to produce saliva, and their mouths become dry. There two main reasons why a person could lick their lips after saying something are that they are nervous, or are uncomfortable with what they have just said.

Next at 4:02 – again a sign of irritation when he mentions that she had lost her oyster card months ago. The statement had the ring of truth to it. 4:19 Irritated again when he mentions that the back garden was still not done.
Most of the interview is spent looking downwards and to the right which I understand means that he is “talking to himself” – as opposed to recollecting something.

At 6:10 he mentions the funfair and again licks his lips a number of times. At 6:36 he mentions that he walked around for a good hour but while he does it he is shaking his head from side to side (as if unconsciously saying its not true). As far as I can tell he does not shake his head through most of the interview – usually he either looks down and occasionally he looks straight at the interviewer.
At 7:36 and 7:50 ,8:26 he again shows true emotion- narrowed eyes /grimace when he says that people are making accusations and bad mouthing him. By the way he points to Tia’s picture and says “her” papers as opposed to Tia’s picture (very remote language – hardly appropriate when talking of a missing loved one).

Finally at 9:46 he talks about people pointing the finger at him (i.e. accusing him) and nods (as if to agree with them) while at 10:06 he says we have got to get her home while shaking his head (as if to say – impossible).

Actually, overall his performance sounds fairly convincing which makes me think that he is a very practiced liar and by the time he gave this interview he had convinced himself that he was innocent or ‘hard done by’ or ‘justified’, his loosely clasped hands are a sign of being comfortable, as is the fact that he basically disregarded DS sitting next to him, as well as the willingness to enter into a long interview despite the danger of being tripped up and giving a long detailed account of his movements. I would have thought that someone who had just murdered a child would have refrained from exposure of any type and it’s beyond me that he had the nerves to go through with this.

 

[Lurkio]

I think the fact she was beginning to truant from school during the first year of secondary school shows perhaps the disadvantages she was faced with in life were just too much for her .

I thought school came out early and said she will be missed and was popular and had no problems and was doing well?

when school mention attendance, if she had a couple days off 'unauthorised/
doesn't mean she was wandering about or down the park etc
she may have been kept off

I will try to find link where school commented
also police are quite hot on asking kids of school age why not at school now if out in public
well they are where I live now

 

[India99]

I'm intrigued - I've not seen a report saying he was in a pub drinking Special Brew anywhere. Where was this reported?

more likely he was sat outside the pub drinking it after buying it in the co-op

cos i don't know many pubs that even sell the evil brew lol

but it does explain why she got off there if she was meeting him there as earlier reports say she met him in Croydon and travelled back with him.

also , why that pub, why not the few near his house or isn't he welcome in those ?

 

[Lurkio]

OMG!!! We have black bed sheets (cotton, not shiny synthetic ones) and red and white and pink and all sorts of colours. They sell (or did sell) them in Ikea (in all sizes and quantities) and we also have some Ralph Lauren ones (from an outlet store). We have one on our bed as the bottom sheet, along with a duvet (sometimes even an animal print pattern!). I wouldn't have the foggiest if a bed sheet was missing unless I was specifically looking for it and as I usually buy two of each anyway, it wouldn't be an issue. Also, no untoward behaviour going on in our home even though we have black bed linen! Personally, other than any DNA/ substances that may be on the sheet, I think it's irrelevant.

lol
it's probably just me then
I am the typical bloke with no dress sense or decorating sense
I was reading other day 37 is the age all men start dressing like jeremy clarkson.
'guilty as charged' :rocker: lol


welcome to Topadvocater !

 

[Amber34]

more likely he was sat outside the pub drinking it after buying it in the co-op

cos i don't know many pubs that even sell the evil brew lol

but it does explain why she got off there if she was meeting him there as earlier reports say she met him in Croydon and travelled back with him.

also , why that pub, why not the few near his house or isn't he welcome in those ?

Which pub was he in, or outside? The post I quoted was the first time I have seen or heard of him being in a pub or drinking Special Brew.

 

[India99]

OMG!!! We have black bed sheets (cotton, not shiny synthetic ones) and red and white and pink and all sorts of colours. They sell (or did sell) them in Ikea (in all sizes and quantities) and we also have some Ralph Lauren ones (from an outlet store). We have one on our bed as the bottom sheet, along with a duvet (sometimes even an animal print pattern!). I wouldn't have the foggiest if a bed sheet was missing unless I was specifically looking for it and as I usually buy two of each anyway, it wouldn't be an issue. Also, no untoward behaviour going on in our home even though we have black bed linen! Personally, other than any DNA/ substances that may be on the sheet, I think it's irrelevant.

i don't see what the black bedsheets has to do with it either, i have a black duvet cover and in the pack were sheets to match which were black also.

i'm in no way in to prostitution either, nobody would be that desperate lol

and i'm not sure we need to know about the DNA on your bedsheets hahaha

 

[Clio]

which bit was funny ?

I think I owe you an apology. What with the "I know something I can't say" posts and me taking far more interest in the case that is probably good for me, I really didn't think you were serious.

Sorry

 

[India99]

Which pub was he in, or outside? The post I quoted was the first time I have seen or heard of him being in a pub or drinking Special Brew.

i would assume The Forestdale Arms as its the only pub anywhere near there

 

[Adorabella]

i don't see what the black bedsheets has to do with it either, i have a black duvet cover and in the pack were sheets to match which were black also.

i'm in no way in to prostitution either, nobody would be that desperate lol

and i'm not sure we need to know about the DNA on your bedsheets hahaha

Haha! So, have we finally put the black sheets to bed?