GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

[soozieqtips]

easy, if thin summery clothes
just spread them over radiators.
obviously they're off as was august but would still be fry by next day imo, apart from jeans
or hang them on line, or airer

Oops. Cross-posted with you

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Pic in this article

http://m.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...ned-2-hours-detectives-potential-witness.html

I think I see someone bringing a cake with a file hidden in it...:waitasec:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

There is no CCTV. We know absolutely nothing. I wish to God I could tell you something.”

The schoolgirl disappeared on a trip to the shops on Friday.

Natalie said a woman had seen her leave Tia’s grandmother Christine Sharp’s house alone.

She said: “I have an independent witness that she left on her own walking down the road.”

Sorry meant to include link.

I find it strange that Natalie says she has a witness rather than the police have a witness.

Just the fact that she used the term "independent witness" which seems so official and legal... A term that she would not use in every day language.

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

OMG, are you guys really suggesting this? Do you not have any sympathy for my now liquid brain? I'm going to put my head in the freezer now, hope fully the juices will set beach into a functioning organ! ;-)

Okay... How about this... What if the clothes described were never Tia's but were Tia's mom's from the very beginning?

It would be "easier" with this scenario... Tia's mom wouldn't have to squeeze into any clothes, clothes could be put on Tia ex post facto, and who really knew what clothes Tia really had with her except the family?

Just throwing this out there.

 

[soozieqtips]

Okay... How about this... What if the clothes described were never Tia's but were Tia's mom's from the very beginning?

It would be "easier" with this scenario... Tia's mom wouldn't have to squeeze into any clothes, clothes could be put on Tia ex post facto, and who really knew what clothes Tia really had with her except the family?

Just throwing this out there.

Look at the picture of Tia's arms and her mum's arms again. I posted it a page or two back I think. Mum's arms are much much bigger than Tia's arms. It's just not possible (going by the pictures) that mum is dressed up as Tia.

 

[Cherwell]

I don't think that anyone has forgotten. It is easier to imagine scenarios when we do not become too attached. I always refer to a body rather than a name. The same with animals in my yard that will be eaten. We will never eat Rusty the Rooster but we eat the ones that are numbered.

That is not borne out by your previous post, is it?
But what I found more offensive is the jokey little Cluedo-style caption.

PM in the attic looking like Mr Mustard with a candlestick

Maybe PM DID see TS that Friday....and whisked her inside, where upon he did away with her and hid her in the loft...in a panic.
After a few days, too many cops around and media too, he decided it was time to pull a few bricks out of the firewall and send TS back into her own loft.

JMO Of course.

 

[Inge Jones]

That is not borne out by your previous post, is it?
But what I found more offensive is the jokey little Cluedo-style caption.

I appreciate a little humor in an otherwise sad conversation, and I enjoyed that comment. We can't all respond the same to things. I think we need to allow each other to be different and not attack each other for those differences

 

[Lurkio]

a very strange thing the police didn't do, and I have to say unprofessional, is not seek to find exact replicas of the clothes TS was wearing
instead go by pixellated and grainy cctv enlarged

let's face it the vast majority of the public buys most of their clothes from the same stores, just off the peg from next, primark, tesco or wherever

especially kids clothes as they grow out of them so quick

how difficult would it have been to have found out from major suppliers what they had still in stock or from past lines and put on a mannequin dummy to jog peoples memories

that is 'if' they really believed she may have been kidnapped

 

[BethInAK]

Although I have experience of a family member missing and being found dead, perhaps it is because I am from a different background that I cannot relate to any of the behaviour of this family since Tia "went missing". They were behaving as though she was already dead and they wanted to be grieving and seen to be grieving. No one in my entire family shed a tear until sis's body was found. It wastes time when you could be doing something useful..

Truth be told, I'd be sobbing like a baby if my kid was missing. I'd would fluctuate between hysterical crying and wanting to DO something to find him.

 

[BethInAK]

Just the fact that she used the term "independent witness" which seems so official and legal... A term that she would not use in every day language.

JMO

yes but...its not an official police term is it? "independent witness" - it sounds "official" but its not something I've heard in investigations before. Verified sighting, verified witness maybe but independent?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Why would they need to dispose of the phone?
They had an explanation of why it was Natalie's phone in the house and why Tia did not take a phone with her.

When they went to Merton on Friday evening they would have returned Natalies phone to her.

I think the cctv picture shows a more mature shape.

I especially see a more mature figure around the waistline of the person in the CCTV.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

One interesting point in that article with the quote from JH is that she ( JH ) says that TS had been there **all week ** ?
So does that mean she was travelling over there each day ? or was JH mistaken about that?

Good question... Because DN saw Tia Thursday morning...
So did she just spend one night at home or go each day from home to granny's?

 

[soozieqtips]

a very strange thing the police didn't do, and I have to say unprofessional, is not seek to find exact replicas of the clothes TS was wearing
instead go by pixellated and grainy cctv enlarged

let's face it the vast majority of the public buys most of their clothes from the same stores, just off the peg from next, primark, tesco or wherever

especially kids clothes as they grow out of them so quick

how difficult would it have been to have found out from major suppliers what they had still in stock or from past lines and put on a mannequin dummy to jog peoples memories

that is 'if' they really believed she may have been kidnapped

They might have done a reconstruction later, like with Jo Yeates. But it wasn't broadcast till quite a few weeks after she'd gone missing.

 

[blefuscu]

I think the police had suspicions of SH and CS's involvement from the word go, and possibly suspected DS too, hence them being focused on by the media.

It's possible that NS was too grief stricken to talk in public. Despite home living conditions I'm sure NS loved her daughter. Maybe the police decided to get SH, CS and DS to do all the talking because they were suspected of "abducting" TS, a la Shannon Matthews and it wasn't until closer inspection that they started suspecting Murder.

I think people are looking for too many needles in this haystack and adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

SH has definitely lied. It was obvious from his interviews, where he could remember minute details from tidying, from Tia's clothing etc, too many fine details and yet couldn't remember which fair he was supposed to have searched.

CS, in my opinion, is at least guilty of stopping a proper burial taking place. There is no way you can have a rotting corpse in your house for 8 or so days and not start to notice the smell. If you leave rubbish out in your kitchen for too long it stinks.

I'm having a very hard time believing NS and DN were involved, quite simply because the police seemed to shift the media focus away from them so quickly.

 

[soozieqtips]

CS, in my opinion, is at least guilty of stopping a proper burial taking place. There is no way you can have a rotting corpse in your house for 8 or so days and not start to notice the smell. If you leave rubbish out in your kitchen for too long it stinks.

I know. But if you think CS must have noticed the smell, then how come no one else noticed it? SH's interview was on the night before Tia's body was found, and some of the family were upstairs during the interview, including Tia's mum, I think. Therefore, if CS must have noticed the smell, surely the others must have done too? Even the criminologist didn't notice anything. That part is a total mystery to me. I don't know what kind of cleaning materials can mask a decomposing body for 8 days. It doesn't seem possible. Maybe there were fans upstairs (because of the heat) and that helped move the air around? I don't know.

 

[Dion]

yes but...its not an official police term is it? "independent witness" - it sounds "official" but its not something I've heard in investigations before. Verified sighting, verified witness maybe but independent?

Police sometimes refer to it when for example, appealing for independent witnesses. Remember we are referring to the UK police not US. There are differences in terminology.

 

[blefuscu]

I know. But if you think CS must have noticed the smell, then how come no one else noticed it? SH's interview was on the night before Tia's body was found, and some of the family were upstairs during the interview, including Tia's mum, I think. Therefore, if CS must have noticed the smell, surely the others must have done too? Even the criminologist didn't notice anything. That part is a total mystery to me. I don't know what kind of cleaning materials can mask a decomposing body for 8 days. It doesn't seem possible. Maybe there were fans upstairs (because of the heat) and that helped move the air around? I don't know.

I'm sure there has been talk of an officer being aware of the smell and insisting that the superior officer look in the loft.

It puzzles me too. I can't stand the smell of my cats litter tray when I go downstairs in the morning and clean it out ASAP. How can they tolerate the stench of a rotting corpse?

 

[soozieqtips]

I'm sure there has been talk of an officer being aware of the smell and insisting that the superior officer look in the loft.

It puzzles me too. I can't stand the smell of my cats litter tray when I go downstairs in the morning and clean it out ASAP. How can they tolerate the stench of a rotting corpse?

I do exactly the same with my cat's litter. And in warm weather, it's unbearable, and that's just after a few hours! I think you're right about one of the officers smelling something. That was the day they found the body? But if he had to get really close to the loft to smell it, it could explain why no one else smelt if they didn't go anywhere near the loft. If it wasn't noticeable until the officer was near the entrance, then I imagine Febreze or bleach or something strong smelling might have been used before the body was wrapped.

 

[Suzy-sue]

Personally i think the more likely scenario is, if SH allegedly did do it - that it is likely to be a case of abuse (either long-standing sexual abuse (which can have many levels to it) which may have developed from basic tickling/stroking/touching to something more as she got older or this may have been the first time SH took the abuse to another level or it could have been a one off case of sexual assault which ended in SH choking/smothering TS - that's what a psychic friend of mine feels and i feel that is what i currently believe is the most likely scenario. If you think about it, when you look at most of these types of murder cases, there is generally some level of sexual motive. One in three people are abused in some shape or form (be it physical, mental, bullying, emotional, sexual etc) which means there are 'x' number of people doing the abusing. Having studied victims of abuse i know that level is approximately correct and yes it is shocking.

It is such a shame that TS's body was found in the state it was and the absolute truth may never come out. I assume if SH did put her body in the loft and then CS came back that he may have assumed he would have time to move it later but when the police moved in it was too late. Sometimes when people lie they actually (try to) appear to be very honest by 'over-doing' and 'over-saying' things to compensate including microgestures or even controlling the microgestures by not expressing emotion. The only way to know about all this would be to see SH talk normally and then compare that to the various current video clips and see if there's any difference but you need to calibrate the person's normal behaviour and microgestures first to make that assessment.

Lastly, check this out: http://www.humanliedetection.com/
When people are speaking or even thinking, their eyes move in different directions depending on whether it is a visual recall, auditory recall or a kineasthetic recall etc and there's another set of eye movement directions when fabricating information. Firstly before making any decision you need to calibrate the person's normal eye movement habits, so you ask them a few questions to check out that these recall and fabrication directions of eye movement to see if they are the normal directions or for some people they may be reversed (left handed people's may be reversed and mine were reversed and i'm right handed but then i've always been awkward!). Once they've calibrated these initial responses, then you can ask the important questions. I haven't as yet re-watched SH on his TV interview but i will try and study it when i get a chance.

 

[Crazy Mama]

easy, if thin summery clothes
just spread them over radiators.
obviously they're off as was august but would still be dry by next day imo, apart from jeans
or hang them on line, or airer

On Friday 3rd it was raining in the morning, and quite torrential downpours too, and quite muggy, although the sun was shining by lunchtime.