Alyce
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GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4
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Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3- Latest: Incoherent
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Why why why
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The supposed trip to the fair was before they reported her missing on Friday night.
Dn's story has appeared to change and the earlier version (no longer available on line) has been remembered by several posters.
I know 100% I remember it.
So given the changes of story and the similarities between the versions
I can only conclude they did muddle the story.
The fact Tia has not been reported to have been seen by anyone since her alleged arrival in New Addington(except one very poor cctv image)
also is strange.
The previous week it has been said she spent time playing with the neighbouring children,yet there was no contact with them from the time she arrived on Thursday afternoon until she was meant to leave to go to Croydon.
We had no other witness statement to say they they saw her on Thursday.
Adorabella
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Thank you so much for posting - thought I was going mad.
Alyce
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Me too, I knew I had read it !
Personally i think the more likely simpler scenario is, if SH allegedly did do it - that it is likely to be a case of abuse (either long-standing sexual abuse (which can have many levels to it) which may have developed from basic tickling/stroking/touching to something more as she got older or this may have been the first time SH took the abuse to another level or it could have been a one off case of sexual assault which ended in SH choking/smothering TS - that's what a psychic friend of mine feels and i feel that is what i currently believe is the most likely scenario. If you think about it, when you look at most of these types of murder cases, there is generally some level of sexual motive. One in three people are abused in some shape or form (be it physical, mental, bullying, emotional, sexual etc) which means there are 'x' number of people doing the abusing. Having studied victims of abuse i know that level is approximately correct and yes it is shocking.
It is such a shame that TS's body was found in the state it was and the absolute truth may never come out. I assume if SH did put her body in the loft and then CS came back that he may have assumed he would have time to move it later but when the police moved in it was too late. Sometimes when people lie they actually (try to) appear to be very honest by 'over-doing' and 'over-saying' things to compensate including microgestures or even controlling the microgestures by not expressing emotion. The only way to know about all this would be to see SH talk normally and then compare that to the various current video clips and see if there's any difference but you need to calibrate the person's normal behaviour and microgestures first to make that assessment.
Lastly, check this out: http://www.humanliedetection.com/
When people are speaking or even thinking, their eyes move in different directions depending on whether it is a visual recall, auditory recall or a kineasthetic recall etc and there's another set of eye movement directions when fabricating information. Firstly before making any decision you need to calibrate the person's normal eye movement habits, so you ask them a few questions to check out that these recall and fabrication directions of eye movement to see if they are the normal directions or for some people they may be reversed (left handed people's may be reversed and mine were reversed and i'm right handed but then i've always been awkward!). Once they've calibrated these initial responses, then you can ask the important questions. I haven't as yet re-watched SH on his TV interview but i will try and study it when i get a chance.
It is such a shame that TS's body was found in the state it was and the absolute truth may never come out. I assume if SH did put her body in the loft and then CS came back that he may have assumed he would have time to move it later but when the police moved in it was too late. Sometimes when people lie they actually (try to) appear to be very honest by 'over-doing' and 'over-saying' things to compensate including microgestures or even controlling the microgestures by not expressing emotion. The only way to know about all this would be to see SH talk normally and then compare that to the various current video clips and see if there's any difference but you need to calibrate the person's normal behaviour and microgestures first to make that assessment.
Lastly, check this out: http://www.humanliedetection.com/
When people are speaking or even thinking, their eyes move in different directions depending on whether it is a visual recall, auditory recall or a kineasthetic recall etc and there's another set of eye movement directions when fabricating information. Firstly before making any decision you need to calibrate the person's normal eye movement habits, so you ask them a few questions to check out that these recall and fabrication directions of eye movement to see if they are the normal directions or for some people they may be reversed (left handed people's may be reversed and mine were reversed and i'm right handed but then i've always been awkward!). Once they've calibrated these initial responses, then you can ask the important questions. I haven't as yet re-watched SH on his TV interview but i will try and study it when i get a chance.
SallyLu
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I couldn't recall who it was. Thank you Adorabella.
MOO. For my money I think we're making it too complicated. MOO.
TS may have been acting cheeky. SH might have been on something or maybe withdrawing from something and things got out of hand.
Only problem I have with my thoughts is - wouldn't it then be a charge of manslaughter and not murder?
Thank you for this.
I remember a more detailed one where he talked about her going shopping in Croydon for flipflops and also mentioning her phone being -I do not think he said broken - (I do not recall what word he said- ) and borrowing her mothers. It appeared to be a sudden thing from what he said
So both families were expecting her home at 6.00pm :waitasec: do I believe they were all having a family supper together, or they'd both been primed to mention 6.00pm in a premeditated convoluted story?
It also seems strange that the validation of a friend of Tia staying over at NS/SC's Thursday night to Friday morning seems to have been out of the news.
It also seems strange that the validation of a friend of Tia staying over at NS/SC's Thursday night to Friday morning seems to have been out of the news.
he's only charged with murder, he's not been convicted of it so it may drop to manslaughter at some point
the reason he was charged with murder was because he had a body in the loft and done a runner hours before a forensic search which we are lead to believe the whole family knew about.
soozieqtips
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Ages ago I posted that I was under the impression (from what DN had himself said) that he was expecting Tia at home in Mitcham by 6pm on Thursday night. I assumed she'd changed her mind and suddenly decided to stay with Gran instead of going home. Other posters pointed out it was sloppy reporting (which is quite common!) and that he was actually repeating what SH had said and was referring to her being at Gran's house by 6pm. But it does now seem that he was talking about Tia going back to her own home that night, not Gran's. Lots of discrepancies right from the early stages from more than one member of the family.
Sorry Soozie, thought I'd read the whole lot of posts, it does seem a bit of a schoolboy error for both of them to say they expected her home at 6pm.
Edit: It could be that the ground rule regardless of who she was stopping with that evening for tea or sleeping, that 6.00pm was the expected time, so it might have changed from "coming home" to "staying at Grans" during that Friday, but this would all point to a functional family who had the same expectations and rules in place. Ho hum.
Edit: It could be that the ground rule regardless of who she was stopping with that evening for tea or sleeping, that 6.00pm was the expected time, so it might have changed from "coming home" to "staying at Grans" during that Friday, but this would all point to a functional family who had the same expectations and rules in place. Ho hum.
opalsqueak63
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Hi - have I got my days mixed up: According to DN, Tia was expected home by 6pm on Thursday and then went to SH/CS place. If so, why did Tia stay overnight at SH/CS Thursday night if she was expected home at her mother and DN's place by 6pm? When did that plan change? It was Friday night that Tia was expected home by 6pm at SH/CS place.
On Thursday, Tia met SH and then went to the co-op where the CCTV image we have seen came from. Do we know for certain that Tia actually went to SH/CS place on the Thursday? On that afternoon, CS would have been in bed sleeping prior to a nightshift. Why did SH make Tia pizza for dinner when she was expected back at ther other home by 6pm? Do we only have SH's word that he and Tia came back to the house on Thursday and were in all night.
Have I got that right - sorry - my head is spinning a bit.
Yet all the family appear to have been over board in their support for SH.
DN's story has changed from one that was very similar to SH's shopping for flip flops in croydon and being back at 6 to leaving work with Tia and a friend who stayed overnight.
Tia, apparently to reports, had no bedroom and slept on the sofa in the sitting room with her possessions in carrier bags.
How likely is she to have had a friend over to stay the night ?
Cherwell
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No, I think it is sloppy reporting. There is a fuller version posted somewhere of what DN said, which makes it clearer. I think Clio originally posted it, I'll try and find it again.
ETA: Got it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...l-12-disappears-on-way-to-buy-flip-flops.html
It's important to remember that press reports are secondary sources, as opposed to filmed pieces where you actually hear and see the person speaking. I've seen one piece with DN where he was clearly being doorstepped by reporters. In these circumstances the person is responding to questions shouted by different reporters, and there's no real cohesion. Thus what ends up in the written report can be quite disjointed and misleading.
ETA: Got it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...l-12-disappears-on-way-to-buy-flip-flops.html
It's important to remember that press reports are secondary sources, as opposed to filmed pieces where you actually hear and see the person speaking. I've seen one piece with DN where he was clearly being doorstepped by reporters. In these circumstances the person is responding to questions shouted by different reporters, and there's no real cohesion. Thus what ends up in the written report can be quite disjointed and misleading.
soozieqtips
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Don't worry. I've read every post too, but can't remember them all because there's so much information! I agree that the 6pm home time being a ground rule applies to a functional and responsible family, definitely not Tia's family. I wouldn't rule out a schoolboy error either. I'm sure they were having trouble trying to remember all the details and just screwed some of them up.
Apart from a poor cctv image of Tia at the co-op there have been no reported sightings of Tia from any one else since she left her home on Thursday.
The police have not issued any other cctv images,no neighbours have been said to have seen her except the two reports of her leaving on Friday .
From what I have read it does not appear as if CS was at home when Tia arrived on Thursday.
opalsqueak63
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I don't think both families expected TS home at 6 on Fri 3rd. DN was reporting what SH had said and the reporting was poor
From the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19159340 DN says
It is unclear which house he is talking about
From The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...l-12-disappears-on-way-to-buy-flip-flops.html DN days
This is much clearer.
From the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19159340 DN says
It is unclear which house he is talking about
From The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...l-12-disappears-on-way-to-buy-flip-flops.html DN days
This is much clearer.
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