UK - US Diplomat's wife leaves UK after killing Harry Dunn, age 19, Northampton, Sept 2019 *suspended sentence*

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Anne Sacoolas, Harry Dunn crash suspect, pictured back behind the wheel

Anne Sacoolas, 42, the wife of a US technical intelligence officer, claimed diplomatic immunity and was able to return to America.

She refused to answer questions as she was filmed by ITV News at the wheel of her car reversing out of a driveway before pulling away.Harry's mother, Charlotte Charles, was left in tears after viewing the footage and told the broadcaster: "I'm distraught to be honest.


It's so wrong she is going about her life normally while Harry's family are in so much pain. I hope she can't sleep at night.
 
I'm really relieved for the Dunn family. If Sacoolas had just manned up to it from the start it would probably have been all over by now (not sure she'd have got a custodial sentence as it was obviously a lapse of concentration and a tragic accident). But because of her cowardly actions and the reaction of the US government and the fact they all made this a 100 times worse for the Dunns, I actually hope they throw the book at her.
 
The Crown Prosecution Service on Friday said it had started extradition proceedings against Sacoolas, yet it is unclear if the U.S. will send her back to the U.K.

"We are disappointed by today’s announcement and fear that it will not bring a resolution closer," a U.S. State Department spokesperson told Fox News. "The United States has been clear that, at the time the accident occurred, and for the duration of her stay in the UK, the driver in this case had status that conferred diplomatic immunities. The Foreign Secretary stated the same in Parliament. We do not believe that the UK’s charging decision is a helpful development."

Anne Sacoolas, wife of US diplomat, formally charged in death of British teenager
 
FrostOwl said:
The wife of a US diplomat being involved in a deadly crash killing 19-year-old Harry Dunn on August 27. After the crash the woman had said she had no plans to leave the UK in in the near future, but mow she and her family have left. Will there be any justice for Harry Dunn? US diplomat's wife leaves UK after becoming suspect in fatal road crash | UK news | The Guardian
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I fear that If she also has diplomatic immunity there's no chance of justice for Harry Dunn :(
And even if she has no immunity I think that her government doesn't want to extradite her (that's pretty much what every government in the world would do I suppose...)
 
Here's the BBC article. ( Maximum sentence 14 years. )

US woman to be charged over Harry Dunn crash death

"The Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said a review into the immunity arrangements at Croughton for US personnel and their families had concluded.

It found that it was an "anomaly" that family members had "greater protection from UK criminal jurisdiction than the officers themselves".

He said he welcomed the decision to charge Mrs Sacoolas.

Mr Raab added: "I hope that Anne Sacoolas will now realise the right thing to do is to come back to the UK and cooperate with the criminal justice process."

Chief Crown Prosecutor Janine Smith said it had authorised Northamptonshire Police to charge Mrs Sacoolas.

She said the director of public prosecutions had met Mr Dunn's family to explain the decision.

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Can Anne Sacoolas be extradited?
The extradition request is sent via the British Embassy to the US State Department.

A lawyer will then decide whether it falls under the dual-criminality treaty, where the alleged offence is a crime in both countries and carries a prison sentence of at least a year.

The maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving is 14 years' imprisonment, although this is usually reserved for the most serious cases.

The US may reject the request for extradition, arguing that Mrs Sacoolas is still entitled to diplomatic immunity."
 
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The way I read the BBC article makes it sound like she could be charged in the states if the crime also carries a penalty of more than a year in the USA.

"A lawyer will then decide whether it falls under the dual-criminality treaty, where the alleged offence is a crime in both countries and carries a prison sentence of at least a year."
 
alexia98 said:
Not so easily I think....the British government can't do something like that to somebody who's an American citizen
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They can very easily. But she left on a military flight, from the base. Which makes the United States complicit in allowing a potential criminal to evade prosecution.

Whoever made that decision, took a chunk of responsibility.
 
She'll not be extradited. This is what the spokesman from the US State Department had to say:

'The United States has been clear that, at the time the accident occurred, and for the duration of her stay in the UK, the driver in this case had status that conferred diplomatic immunities.

'The Foreign Secretary stated the same in Parliament.

'It is the position of the United States government that a request to extradite an individual under these circumstances would be an egregious abuse.

'The use of an extradition treaty to attempt to return the spouse of a former diplomat by force would establish an extraordinarily troubling precedent.'

The Americans have made their position clear, which is that she had diplomatic immunity while in the UK. The UK will ask for her extradition, but then it'll go before an American judge where mrs. Sacoolas will get back-up from the State Department. End of story: extradition request refused. This will be the outcome regardless of who'll be the president, be it Trump, Biden or otherwise. The USA is notoriously protective of their military and diplomatic personnel (and their families), as Cavalese cable disaster (and other incidents) show. Italy is a reliable NATO/US ally, and though the behavior of the pilot in the Cavalese disaster was notoriously egregious and the loss of life extensive, the Americans still refused extradition.

On a related note, it's pretty obvious mrs. Sacoolas was told to leave by US State Department, which is pretty much the American modus operandi in these kind of cases. The only reason this blew up more than usual was because it happened in the UK instead of Turkey or Pakistan.
 
I’m glad she was charged for Harry’s family’s sake but that disgraceful woman is not coming back here by any means. I do not understand how diplomatic immunity applies in a case like this and it should not apply to spouses who are not U.S government employees themselves.
 
Mandos said:
She'll not be extradited. This is what the spokesman from the US State Department had to say:

'The United States has been clear that, at the time the accident occurred, and for the duration of her stay in the UK, the driver in this case had status that conferred diplomatic immunities.

'The Foreign Secretary stated the same in Parliament.

'It is the position of the United States government that a request to extradite an individual under these circumstances would be an egregious abuse.

'The use of an extradition treaty to attempt to return the spouse of a former diplomat by force would establish an extraordinarily troubling precedent.'

The Americans have made their position clear, which is that she had diplomatic immunity while in the UK. The UK will ask for her extradition, but then it'll go before an American judge where mrs. Sacoolas will get back-up from the State Department. End of story: extradition request refused. This will be the outcome regardless of who'll be the president, be it Trump, Biden or otherwise. The USA is notoriously protective of their military and diplomatic personnel (and their families), as Cavalese cable disaster (and other incidents) show. Italy is a reliable NATO/US ally, and though the behavior of the pilot in the Cavalese disaster was notoriously egregious and the loss of life extensive, the Americans still refused extradition.

On a related note, it's pretty obvious mrs. Sacoolas was told to leave by US State Department, which is pretty much the American modus operandi in these kind of cases. The only reason this blew up more than usual was because it happened in the UK instead of Turkey or Pakistan.
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When did they say this? Was it before she was charged? Now she has actually been charged it is different I believe. At the very least she will never be able to come back to this country again without being arrested. I hope they sort it out anyway.

ETA here is the Wiki entry regarding this dual criminality thing that may come into play.

Double criminality - Wikipedia
 
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Mandos said:
The UK will ask for her extradition, but then it'll go before an American judge where mrs. Sacoolas will get back-up from the State Department. End of story: extradition request refused.
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It doesn't seem right. Will/can the matter be appealed and go to a higher court? Surely diplomatic immunity wasn't intended to shield someone who caused the death of another person? I'm appalled by the attitude of the US State Department.
 
Mandos said:
She'll not be extradited. This is what the spokesman from the US State Department had to say:

'The United States has been clear that, at the time the accident occurred, and for the duration of her stay in the UK, the driver in this case had status that conferred diplomatic immunities.

'The Foreign Secretary stated the same in Parliament.

'It is the position of the United States government that a request to extradite an individual under these circumstances would be an egregious abuse.

'The use of an extradition treaty to attempt to return the spouse of a former diplomat by force would establish an extraordinarily troubling precedent.'

The Americans have made their position clear, which is that she had diplomatic immunity while in the UK. The UK will ask for her extradition, but then it'll go before an American judge where mrs. Sacoolas will get back-up from the State Department. End of story: extradition request refused. This will be the outcome regardless of who'll be the president, be it Trump, Biden or otherwise. The USA is notoriously protective of their military and diplomatic personnel (and their families), as Cavalese cable disaster (and other incidents) show. Italy is a reliable NATO/US ally, and though the behavior of the pilot in the Cavalese disaster was notoriously egregious and the loss of life extensive, the Americans still refused extradition.

On a related note, it's pretty obvious mrs. Sacoolas was told to leave by US State Department, which is pretty much the American modus operandi in these kind of cases. The only reason this blew up more than usual was because it happened in the UK instead of Turkey or Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Cavalese cable car disaster (1998) - Wikipedia

This is the link regarding the Massacre at Cermis that you referred to and Wiki states the pilots were put on trial in the States. They also admitted to destroying a tape of the incident.
 
Mandos said:
She'll not be extradited. This is what the spokesman from the US State Department had to say:

'The United States has been clear that, at the time the accident occurred, and for the duration of her stay in the UK, the driver in this case had status that conferred diplomatic immunities.

'The Foreign Secretary stated the same in Parliament.

'It is the position of the United States government that a request to extradite an individual under these circumstances would be an egregious abuse.

'The use of an extradition treaty to attempt to return the spouse of a former diplomat by force would establish an extraordinarily troubling precedent.'

The Americans have made their position clear, which is that she had diplomatic immunity while in the UK. The UK will ask for her extradition, but then it'll go before an American judge where mrs. Sacoolas will get back-up from the State Department. End of story: extradition request refused. This will be the outcome regardless of who'll be the president, be it Trump, Biden or otherwise. The USA is notoriously protective of their military and diplomatic personnel (and their families), as Cavalese cable disaster (and other incidents) show. Italy is a reliable NATO/US ally, and though the behavior of the pilot in the Cavalese disaster was notoriously egregious and the loss of life extensive, the Americans still refused extradition.

On a related note, it's pretty obvious mrs. Sacoolas was told to leave by US State Department, which is pretty much the American modus operandi in these kind of cases. The only reason this blew up more than usual was because it happened in the UK instead of Turkey or Pakistan.
Click to expand...
In the Cavalese cable disaster case all pilots were charged but only 2 of them were convicted by a US military court. Unfortunately only one of the 2 convicts spent a few months in jail...in other words those 20 victims had no justice
Actually that court could have been a little more tough with them :(
(I'm not really sure what I'm saying is completely true because I've read something about that case months ago)
 
gregjrichards said:
I’m glad she was charged for Harry’s family’s sake but that disgraceful woman is not coming back here by any means. I do not understand how diplomatic immunity applies in a case like this and it should not apply to spouses who are not U.S government employees themselves.
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I think government has the power to extend the diplomatic immunity to whoever they want (for political reasons I guess) :)
 
There is state immunity where you cannot sue the USG but also diplomatic immunity for the US personnel but not all employees of the USG in the UK have this. In fact, if she had it then they did not need to whisk her out of the country like they did. I do not think she was driving a car with diplomatic plates for example. There is a process for this and it looks like it is happening, albeit very slowly. The media has to keep it in the public eye. If she and her family were here under the NATO or SOFA treaty then that is what will govern it.
 
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