Upcoming Trial - 2012

[Cammy]

Wearing jeans or having blond hair seems completely meaningless to me. Jason owned jeans and he had blond hair, just like millions of others. The detail, for me, is in his height. If she had said brown hair, jeans and 6 feet tall that would have worked for me, but not blond hair, jeans and 5 feet tall. It's impossible to believe that she didn't notice that she had to look way up to talk to him.

I thought my original post got stuck in cyberspace, lol, but I see it made it through.
Exactly, the difference in height can not be explained, especially if they were on the same level, which I just read that they were.
Was there any testimony if she related this incident to her boss that day, such as in a written report, perhaps?
That would be great confirmation, since the witness could not be found.
Excellent, well thought out observation, Otto.

IMO

 

[Just the Fax]

I thought my original post got stuck in cyberspace, lol, but I see it made it through.
Exactly, the difference in height can not be explained, especially if they were on the same level, which I just read that they were.
Was there any testimony if she related this incident to her boss that day, such as in a written report, perhaps?
That would be great confirmation, since the witness could not be found.
Excellent, well thought out post, Otto.

IMO

Where did you "read" this, "Cammy"?
Have a link?

 

[otto]

That question was never asked, otto.

It is up to the jury to decide if her statement 4 years earlier was more credible than her faded memory in 2011.

Case in point....I see many poster's memory has faded recalling all the facts from 2006/2007.

Of course people's memories fade. If it is written repeatedly that a white car was seen at the house at 4 in the morning, some people re-write their memories and believe it was a white car. The fact is that it wasn't. It was a light colored car - which could mean many things. Some people may forget that there was a search warrant specifically for measuring the bathroom tiles because investigators made mistakes and neglected to put measurement markers in their photos. These things happen.

The witness was asked in court about the height of the man she dealt with at the gas station. I understand that this fact presents a problem in terms of arguing that her testimony is valid, but that's how it is.

"Though Dahms, a woman with a history of drug abuse, pointed to Young in court today as the man she had encountered in November 2006, she told Judge Stephens [minutes] before that she had difficulty describing the man she had seen in the store.

Dahms, 5-feet-3, said she remembered the customer as a white man, slightly taller than she is, who looked to be in his 30s.

But when asked whether she saw him in the courtroom today, she pointed at Jason Young without hesitation.

She said she remembered him because few people cussed her out as he did."

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05...ows-store-clerks-testimony.html#storylink=cpy


She was most likely only able to identify Jason because she was only shown his picture (not a photo lineup) and because he was sitting at the defendant's table. Given her drug history, one has to question whether she was somewhat motivated to do something good and help police.

 

[Cammy]

i completely agree with this post otto.

My question is does she still remain the states star witness?

g m t a !!

 

[otto]

The more you post your opinion on this, the weaker your argument gets.
MOO

Could you please be more specific.

I don't believe that stating the facts makes them weaker.

 

[Madeleine74]

Wondering if JY will be playing "rock paper scissors" to try and explain why he propped the door open?

Gracie Lee seems to have a limited vocabulary. She described JY as little taller than her. She described his hair as little. Confusion continues when the state doesn't clarify what she actually means and remind her of her exact words at the time that it mattered, a few days after the murder. It's up to them to bring out the testimony and then make sure it can be understood.

Wish the state would bring in an exact copy of the 11/2/06 USA Today and show the size of the sports scores print. Can those easily be read in the near dark?

 

[gracielee]

Hopefully, since this is a brand new trial, Gracie will be properly prepped for her testimony, and her earlier statement will be introduced as to 'closeness in time to the actual event.'

 

[Just the Fax]

That was a pre-trial hearing, otto.
Thanks, but the N&O account was not needed, as I was there.

The same hearing revealed her more credible statement....very close to the murder date.

Tell ya what, lets see how Gracie plays out next trial.
Betcha it's an entirely different scenario for the jury.

 

[Cammy]

Of course people's memories fade. If it is written repeatedly that a white car was seen at the house at 4 in the morning, some people re-write their memories and believe it was a white car. The fact is that it wasn't. It was a light colored car - which could mean many things. Some people may forget that there was a search warrant specifically for measuring the bathroom tiles because investigators made mistakes and neglected to put measurement markers in their photos. These things happen.

The witness was asked in court about the height of the man she dealt with at the gas station. I understand that this fact presents a problem in terms of arguing that her testimony is valid, but that's how it is.

"Though Dahms, a woman with a history of drug abuse, pointed to Young in court today as the man she had encountered in November 2006, she told Judge Stephens [minutes] before that she had difficulty describing the man she had seen in the store.

Dahms, 5-feet-3, said she remembered the customer as a white man, slightly taller than she is, who looked to be in his 30s.

But when asked whether she saw him in the courtroom today, she pointed at Jason Young without hesitation.

She said she remembered him because few people cussed her out as he did."

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05...ows-store-clerks-testimony.html#storylink=cpy


She was most likely only able to identify Jason because she was only shown his picture (not a photo lineup) and because he was sitting at the defendant's table. Given her drug history, one has to question whether she was somewhat motivated to do something good and help police.

Oh my gosh, I did not know all this, this is not good.
Thank you for posting.
Now, I understand more of the problem.
I could not get past the fact that they had a witness, and yet could not reach a verdict.
This makes sense.
IMO

 

[otto]

Where did you "read" this, "Cammy"?
Have a link?

Let's assume that the floor was at one elevaton throughout the gas station. Is there a link indicating that the gas attendant was standing on a step ladder or something else when she encountered the short customer?

 

[otto]

I completely agree with this post otto.

My question is does she still remain the states star witness?

Probably yes ... if they had any other witnesses, they should have been called during the first trial.

 

[gracielee]

I think we've established that the witness stated that the man she dealt with was tall. When asked to explain what "tall" meant, she indicated that he was 5 feet tall; the same as she.

No amount of "rehabilitating" a witness can change that fact. Police should have obtained more specific facts such as: how tall was he? It seems that they were so eager to have a witness for the gas purchase that they neglected to use a photo line-up and neglected to understand what the witness meant when she said "tall".

I don't recall that to be what she said. I thought she said 'a little taller than herself'. Not that he was 5 ft. tall, same as herself. IIRC, we went over that at the time. To me, unless someone is like a basketball player, I have zero ability to judge height on someone. I can tell if they are taller than me, but how much taller, not so much. I've often thought to myself, I'd be a lousy judge of height as a witness, because unless someone is standing next to someone that I know the height of, I'm at a loss in the guessing dept.

ymmv

 

[borndem]

Anything Jay said can and will be used against him in the next trial.

Let's hope!!

 

[Cammy]

Let's assume that the floor was at one elevaton throughout the gas station. Is there a link indicating that the gas attendant was standing on a step ladder or something else when she encountered the short customer?

It was in the cross exam by the defense that it came out they were on the same level of flooring.
This is worse than I thought.
Perhaps, Lynx is right, maybe they will distance themselves from her this time around. IMO

 

[Just the Fax]

Let's assume that the floor was at one elevaton throughout the gas station. Is there a link indicating that the gas attendant was standing on a step ladder or something else when she encountered the short customer?

Lets not 'assume' anything.
I prefer facts.
"Cammy" posted she "read" something and posted it as fact.

 

[Cammy]

I don't recall that to be what she said. I thought she said 'a little taller than herself'. Not that he was 5 ft. tall, same as herself. IIRC, we went over that at the time. To me, unless someone is like a basketball player, I have zero ability to judge height on someone. I can tell if they are taller than me, but how much taller, not so much. I've often thought to myself, I'd be a lousy judge of height as a witness, because unless someone is standing next to someone that I know the height of, I'm at a loss in the guessing dept.

ymmv

H Gracie, I don't know.
I am 5'6 and everyone is still taller than me.
:floorlaugh:

 

[gracielee]

Wondering if JY will be playing "rock paper scissors" to try and explain why he propped the door open?

Gracie Lee seems to have a limited vocabulary. She described JY as little taller than her. She described his hair as little. Confusion continues when the state doesn't clarify what she actually means and remind her of her exact words at the time that it mattered, a few days after the murder. It's up to them to bring out the testimony and then make sure it can be understood.

Wish the state would bring in an exact copy of the 11/2/06 USA Today and show the size of the sports scores print. Can those easily be read in the near dark?

LOL, I thought you were saying *I* had a limited vocabulary! :floorlaugh:

Oh wait, maybe you were.......:waitasec:

In that case......:furious:

 

[Just the Fax]

:seeya:

ya'll have fun, ya hear!

 

[citygirl]

Oh please. IMO she nailed him.

Of course people's memories fade. If it is written repeatedly that a white car was seen at the house at 4 in the morning, some people re-write their memories and believe it was a white car. The fact is that it wasn't. It was a light colored car - which could mean many things. Some people may forget that there was a search warrant specifically for measuring the bathroom tiles because investigators made mistakes and neglected to put measurement markers in their photos. These things happen.

The witness was asked in court about the height of the man she dealt with at the gas station. I understand that this fact presents a problem in terms of arguing that her testimony is valid, but that's how it is.

"Though Dahms, a woman with a history of drug abuse, pointed to Young in court today as the man she had encountered in November 2006, she told Judge Stephens [minutes] before that she had difficulty describing the man she had seen in the store.

Dahms, 5-feet-3, said she remembered the customer as a white man, slightly taller than she is, who looked to be in his 30s.

But when asked whether she saw him in the courtroom today, she pointed at Jason Young without hesitation.

She said she remembered him because few people cussed her out as he did."

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05...ows-store-clerks-testimony.html#storylink=cpy


She was most likely only able to identify Jason because she was only shown his picture (not a photo lineup) and because he was sitting at the defendant's table. Given her drug history, one has to question whether she was somewhat motivated to do something good and help police.

 

[citygirl]

Oh my gosh, I did not know all this, this is not good.
Thank you for posting.
Now, I understand more of the problem.
I could not get past the fact that they had a witness, and yet could not reach a verdict.
This makes sense.
IMO

Really? You didn't know this about Gracie Dahms Bailey?