GUILTY UT - Brian Mitchell & Wanda Barzee for kidnapping, Salt Lake City, 5 June 2002

[Tricia]

I agree with you Tricia, there is no reason to not acknowledge it was a mistake from the get go and then let it go.I also don't understand why they are saying he went back to jail for drinking beer when he violated his parole by admittedly stealing from the Smarts.

Thanks Ohiogirl.

What happened was (some of this is conjecture on my part but I believe it is totally correct) the police were under so much pressure to find a suspect in this case that they found one that looked good on paper.

You have a handyman who has a criminal past who was on parole for stealing some meat from a freezer I believe it was.

He had access to the Smart house although at the time of the kidnapping he hadn't been to her house for almost a year I think. Might be wrong on the time but I know Ricci hadn't been to the Smarts for quite some time.

So, the police literally came up with a theory from air that Richard went in to the house to steal something, Elizabeth woke up and he took her.

When the police came to their house Angela told me that Richard immediately admitted to stealing some items from the Smart home when he worked there. He was certain by admitting the truth the police would understand he did not do this but he was wrong.

I think, not sure but I think they drug tested him and it came back with alcohol which was against his parole so the parole officer violated him and sent him back to prison.

I challenge anyone to find another parolee who was sent back to prison for drinking a beer. It was an excuse to get him behind bars and pressure him to tell them what he did with Elizabeth.

The pressure they put on Ricci was so great his head literally exploded and he died.

In the meantime Mary Katherine told the Smarts that Ricci didn't do it. Immanuel did. According to Tom Smart's book the Smarts believed Mary Katherine. Let me add I am going by memory and if I am wrong please let me know and I will correct my post ASAP.

I don't think anyone blames the Smarts for what happened to Ricci. That is the fault of a couple of detectives who didn't do their jobs.

It is unfair to paint all of the Salt Lake City Police with the same brush here.

The Smarts were in a terrible situation. Terrifying. Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy to do.

I don't understand why the Smarts didn't come out and say it was Immanuel until John Walsh forced the issue on AMW in December of 2002. But that's just my opinion.

Again, who is to say I wouldn't have done the exact same thing. Their daughter's life was in danger. I would say to hell with everyone and everything else. I understand their only concern was Elizabeth. And so does Angela Ricci.

So they used the fact that Ricci had a few beers to send him back to prison.

You and I give our heartfelt apologies to people we know who have lost loved ones all the time. Why is it so hard for the Smarts to do just that in this situation.

It is so hurtful to Angela and her son I can't even put it into words.

 

[Charlie09]

Wouldn’t he be a true Christian if he reached out to Angela with such an apology?

and again....

As good Christians I personally do not understand why they have to continue to be cruel to Angela by saying things like Richard didn't fully cooperate.

Seriously?

 

[beach]

It's not so much that the Smarts did anything wrong to apologize for as much as it they should reach out to a woman who lost her loved one due to false accusations.

It would be nice if they admitted they were wrong too in accusing Richard and apologize for that. That's all.

--respectfully snipped for emphasis

This.

I think we can all empathize with the horrible nightmare Ed & Lois Smart were living during that time. I can even understand wanting an answer so desperately that you grasp on tight to any lead that sounds remotely promising. HOWEVER, after Elizabeth was rescued and returned home, Ed Smart owed Angela Ricci a phone call. And he should have done it months ago. If for no other reason to express his regret for what her husband was put through when he was INNOCENT of the crime for which he was a strong POI. IMO, he needed to ask Angela Ricci for forgiveness and understanding of how despondent his family was at the time. He also needs to express his condolences for the death of her husband and the stress it caused her entire family.

And, I really don't understand his recent comment, "Ricci was not forthcoming during the investigation." Either there is something I am totally unaware of or he was wayyyyy out of line with that comment.

 

[believe09]

Has Angela threatened them with a lawsuit, or have the Smart's been advised that she might?

I think this is a tough one. I think this is a lose, lose. The Smarts must have feelings of great guilt-for what Elizabeth and their other daughter went through. I remember when the little girl was described as catatonic after Elizabeth was taken...I remember reading she wouldnt speak.

I think it is all a tragedy and the people who are responsible are those who have just been found guilty. It all springs from that moment. We dont know the Smart's history with the Ricci's-I mean they hired him and he stole from them. The Smart's had this grand plan to be bigger people and to give others a chance. They were burned in the worst possible way-betrayal after betrayal and they were the ones who invited the evil into their house.

I dont know. I dont know if I can say what is right here....

 

[Tricia]

Has Angela threatened them with a lawsuit, or have the Smart's been advised that she might?

I think this is a tough one. I think this is a lose, lose. The Smarts must have feelings of great guilt-for what Elizabeth and their other daughter went through. I remember when the little girl was described as catatonic after Elizabeth was taken...I remember reading she wouldnt speak.

I think it is all a tragedy and the people who are responsible are those who have just been found guilty. It all springs from that moment. We dont know the Smart's history with the Ricci's-I mean they hired him and he stole from them. The Smart's had this grand plan to be bigger people and to give others a chance. They were burned in the worst possible way-betrayal after betrayal and they were the ones who invited the evil into their house.

I dont know. I dont know if I can say what is right here....

No, Angela has not threatened a lawsuit in any way shape or form.

I am not as understanding as you are Believe. I think it was more for monetary reasons they hired street people. Not contractors or sub contractors, no one with a license, but street people who would work for pennies on the dollar. I could be wrong.

The Smarts didn't have any idea their hiring of street people would lead to this.

I can understand why they would be hurt that Ricci stole from them but he is dead and he is dead because he was falsely accused in their daughter's kidnapping. I just don't get the cruelty on their part not to reach out to Angela.

If I remember I think Ricci stole a t-shirt and a bottle of seashells from the Smarts. He also admitted to taking a hundred-dollar bill he saw on the Smart's neighbor's dresser.

Terrible thing to do. I agree but it would seem that his death would overshadow what he did to them. Does that make sense?

 

[Tricia]

--respectfully snipped for emphasis

This.

I think we can all empathize with the horrible nightmare Ed & Lois Smart were living during that time. I can even understand wanting an answer so desperately that you grasp on tight to any lead that sounds remotely promising. HOWEVER, after Elizabeth was rescued and returned home, Ed Smart owed Angela Ricci a phone call. And he should have done it months ago. If for no other reason to express his regret for what her husband was put through when he was INNOCENT of the crime for which he was a strong POI. IMO, he needed to ask Angela Ricci for forgiveness and understanding of how despondent his family was at the time. He also needs to express his condolences for the death of her husband and the stress it caused her entire family.

And, I really don't understand his recent comment, "Ricci was not forthcoming during the investigation." Either there is something I am totally unaware of or he was wayyyyy out of line with that comment.

Thank you Beach. You put it very eloquently.

Remember the mechanic who said Ricci came and got his jeep from the repair shop the day Elizabeth was taken and drove it hundreds of miles? That was a complete and total lie. Did not happen. That was one of the things Ed Smart kept bringing up during the investigation. Why Ricci was not forthcoming about the car. He wasn't forthcoming because it didn't happen.

These are the things we don't hear about which is too bad.

 

[believe09]

It does-I think it might make sense that the Smart's hired street people in order to cut costs...that makes it even worse then that this terrible terrible event occurred because of something like that.

I remember reading how they sweated Ricci-but I guess I am still having a hard time understanding where the apology needs to come in and why she had to go to the media. Maybe she would have received one privately, maybe she would have been rebuffed. But certainly she is unlikely to receive one now.

Did she get one from PD and the DA and everyone else who pushed for him to be responsible??

 

[Nova]

I think Tricia's compassion for the Riccis is nothing but admirable. And I very much appreciate her explanation to me above.

Maybe the Smarts didn't behave perfectly throughout their ordeal. But...

1. If they continued to accuse Ricci despite what their daughter told them, then either (a) they mistrusted the daughter's account because of her age and because of what LE was telling them; or (b) they hated Ricci and wanted to punish him more than they loved Elizabeth and wanted her back. Does anybody seriously believe it was the latter?

2. Since when do the police take marching orders from the family of a crime victim? I know DAs will sometimes consult before taking a plea bargain, but if Ricci was being strong-armed as a suspect, I feel sure that was LE's decision not that of the Smarts. So who owes the apology?

***

There's a similar discussion in the Amanda Knox thread because the victim's father wrote a column complaining that the Knox family never reached out to express sympathy. Like that would have made the loss of his daughter "okay."

Frankly, I think all this stuff about apologies and expressions of sympathy and regret from crime victims, perps, families, etc. is displaced anger.

The Riccis are understandably angry and grief-stricken over what happened to their relative. The Smarts just make a convenient target for that anger. It's easier to be angry at a person than at something as amorphous as "the System."

(ETA When I said above that Ricci's criminal record contributed to his treatment, I never meant to imply he "deserved what he got" or that everything that ensued was his fault. But that history did contribute to the Smarts' willingness to believe LE that Ricci was the most likely suspect.)

 

[Tricia]

Attention Everyone:

Feel free to disagree with me. You won't get in trouble, Promise.

Also feel free to put any messages you might have for Angela and her family. She will be reading this thread at the end of the day.

This is not black and white, nor is it cut and dry. That's why it is so hard and so heartbreaking.

 

[Astrella613]

LE were the ones that put all their attention on Ricci and with good reason. He was the most likely suspect. I put all the blame on LE not the Smarts. They zeroed in on him from the beginning but even now if you put up a homeless mental guy up against someone like Ricci, who would you pick as the most likely suspect or poi? I don't beleive that the Smarts have anything to appoligize for, they were the victims. It is really a shame that that happened to Ricci but I think only his past could be brought to blame for that. I do seen to remember that Angela did try to sue but she didn't get anywhere. I would have to research that to be sure.

 

[jjenny]

Well to be fair as I recall Ricci was never officially charged with anything relating to Smart's kidnapping.
As far as I recall officially he was in custody for parole violation.

 

[Astrella613]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635191281/


Ricci-lawsuit-is-dismissed.htmlThe widow of Richard Ricci has hit another legal dead end in her quest to seek legal damages for her husband's death in connection with the investigation into the disappearance of Elizabeth Smart.

In a ruling issued Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart dismissed a suit filed by Angela Ricci on behalf of her late husband against Cory Mack Lyman, who at the time was lead investigator in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping.

 

[believe09]

I think Mrs. Ricci has suffered a terrible loss. A terrible one. I dont know how to balance that out. There are no winners here....but I am perplexed at why she desired to bring the media into her quest. I think it puts the wall even higher.

I suspect it is tough to prove that the aneurysm he suffered was caused by all he experienced-it may have been a contributing factor for sure, but tough to prove.

My words are no help I know-in my heart I have to say while I would admire the gesture if the Smart's reached out, I can understand why they havent. It re-opens all the wounds for everyone.

 

[believe09]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635191281/


Ricci-lawsuit-is-dismissed.htmlThe widow of Richard Ricci has hit another legal dead end in her quest to seek legal damages for her husband's death in connection with the investigation into the disappearance of Elizabeth Smart.

In a ruling issued Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart dismissed a suit filed by Angela Ricci on behalf of her late husband against Cory Mack Lyman, who at the time was lead investigator in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping.

This was my fear-that even if she is not threatening litigation against the Smart's, they have likely been advised against approaching her in any fashion.

 

[MagicRose99]

On Saturday December 11th 2010, Ed Smart told a TV news anchor that Richard Ricci was not forthcoming in the investigation into Elizabeth’s kidnapping. Angela Ricci was watching that newscast.

*snipped and bolded by me"

I think Tricia's compassion for the Riccis is nothing but admirable. And I very much appreciate her explanation to me above.

Maybe the Smarts didn't behave perfectly throughout their ordeal. But...

1. If they continued to accuse Ricci despite what their daughter told them, then either (a) they mistrusted the daughter's account because of her age and because of what LE was telling them; or (b) they hated Ricci and wanted to punish him more than they loved Elizabeth and wanted her back. Does anybody seriously believe it was the latter?

2. Since when do the police take marching orders from the family of a crime victim? I know DAs will sometimes consult before taking a plea bargain, but if Ricci was being strong-armed as a suspect, I feel sure that was LE's decision not that of the Smarts. So who owes the apology?

***

There's a similar discussion in the Amanda Knox thread because the victim's father wrote a column complaining that the Knox family never reached out to express sympathy. Like that would have made the loss of his daughter "okay."

Frankly, I think all this stuff about apologies and expressions of sympathy and regret from crime victims, perps, families, etc. is displaced anger.

The Riccis are understandably angry and grief-stricken over what happened to their relative. The Smarts just make a convenient target for that anger. It's easier to be angry at a person than at something as amorphous as "the System."

(ETA When I said above that Ricci's criminal record contributed to his treatment, I never meant to imply he "deserved what he got" or that everything that ensued was his fault. But that history did contribute to the Smarts' willingness to believe LE that Ricci was the most likely suspect.)

Maybe I'm misreading Nova... but it sounds like Nova is going from the past - before there was another suspect.

But, by the quote above (snipped/bolded by me) Ed is STILL trying to blame and/or implicate Richard Ricci (see the date of the quote?) for some part in the crime of the kidnapping - which Richard wasn't responsible for.

If anything, Ed owes Mrs. Ricci an apology for trying to still implicate Richard to the crime. The man was innocent of this particular crime, he doesn't need to keep being blamed or implicated just because Ed feels like it. There is no proof that Richard had anything to do with this kidnapping at this date and time and Ed should refrain from trying to implicate Richard in this manner - especially since Richard is no longer here to defend himself.

JMO

 

[LisaNY]

Angela & Family - the loss of a loved one is very hard, no matter the circumstances. I am truly sorry for your loss. While an apology from the people that wrongfully accused your husband may have given your family some comfort, perhaps you can find some solace in the fact that ultimately the truth came out, and those that loved your husband/father never doubted him. This was a terrible situation for all. Try to keep your faith.

 

[Tricia]

Angela never tried to sue the Smarts.

She did win a settlement from the department of corrections but that was based on the fact that they never checked Ricci blood pressure to see if he needed medicine.

Keep in mind there was no evidence to suggest Richard Ricci had anything to do with this. None. He hadn't been to the house in close to a year. A couple of detectives decided he did it and that's that.

Also the Smarts, according to what has been written, completely believed Mary Katherine when she said it wasn't Ricci. It was the police that told the Smarts not to say anything about Immanuel and it wasn't until John Walsh forced the issue was his name ever brought up.

There was not one single good reason to suggest Ricci had anything to do with this. Early on people were questioning his involvement.

In fact the first person to step up and say he didn't do it was Marc Klaas.

While in prison they relentlessly tried to get him to confess to kidnapping Elizabeth.

Think about it. All the Ed Smart has to do is say how sorry he is that Angela's loved one was falsely accused.

It wasn't until he decided to say, again, something that wasn't true that Angela decided to speak out. How much can one person take?

Her husband died in prison while being falsey accused of a horrible crime.

See here is what bothers me. If Ricci was an upstanding member of the community we would all be up in arms that he was falsely accused.

I'm going to keep saying this. THERE was NO evidence to suggest he did this.

There was nothing in his criminal background to suggest this.

But because he was an ex con he was an easy target and that is just flat out wrong.

Yes he needed to be looked at. absolutely. And he needed to be questioned as hard as anyone else who had been in that house but he was falsely accused. No matter what he did was falsely accused.

If he had been seen in the neighborhood, been caught in a lie about his whereabouts the night of the kidnapping, talked about hating the Smarts, ANYTHING but not one thing led to him in this crime.

It's scary to think what can happen when you have just a few detectives who have made up their minds that someone is guilty.

 

[beach]

This was my fear-that even if she is not threatening litigation against the Smart's, they have likely been advised against approaching her in any fashion.

I totally agree with this.

 

[jjenny]

I am fully aware there was no evidence. That's why he was never charged with anything in connection to the kidnapping. He was in custody on parole violation.

 

[impatientredhead]

This was my fear-that even if she is not threatening litigation against the Smart's, they have likely been advised against approaching her in any fashion.

You are right on target.
This could be interpreted as an admission of guilt.

I know I can be cold about things like this but Ricci is a bystander victim of the people who kidnapped Elizabeth and of his own life choices. One was inflicted upon him (the kidnapping at a location he had been) and the other was him being on probation for his own decisions and being in violation of that probation for his own decisions.

The Smarts didn't frame him, didn't suggest him, he came up during a routine investigation. They didn't plant items from their home in his residence and they didn't force him to feed his decade old addiction. They didn't have the power to revoke his probation.

I feel bad for the Ricci family and their loss. But I don't see anything that the Smart's owe them an apology for or what it would make better. Ricci has been cleared in the kidnapping. No one can do anything more than that.

moo