Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #17 *ARREST*

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I have a question that I’m sure is dumb to a lot of you but I’m new and still learning...

If AA does strike a deal and pleads guilty to avoid death penalty, the case doesn’t go to court...will we ever know the answers to all the questions? Like will LE or DA or whosever release all the information and evidence they have against him?
After Chris Watts plead guilty LE released everything related to the case hundreds of pages of documents, phone records, text, calls, interrogation videos, interviews with family and friends, video of LE going in the house when cops were called and much much more. They released everything. Took me days to go through it all.
 
Except that what you describe doesn't fit in with the timeline. He had to have left the park immediately to get her home by 3:07. Not much time to pull the weapon and get her to calm down. Plus he's not that competent.

Seems to me it was more along my suggestion that she's meeting him there because they are initially planning to go somewhere else but then decide just to go home.

Obviously, she didn't recognize how evil he was -- heck he was active in the singles ward -- but that doesn't mean she didn't go to the house or hadn't been there before.
It didn’t take Ted Bundy long

How long does it take to point a gun and say don’t scream or I’ll shoot. Not long
 
Yes...she was pretty comfortable getting in his car. Had to have gone wrong at his house. Does make me wonder why he did not give her the address for his house so the Lyft driver could just drop her off there? Why meet at the park?

He could have hit her in the left temple right when she got in the car.

That's obviously the mystery.

But my suggestion that she wants to go to IHOP and he says I'm up here, why don't you meet me (or something like that), could explain it. Then she says it took an hour to get my bag, lets just go home.

I didn't have a minute of time at the park ... I'm skeptical he's competent to subdue her in a minute and then drive away.
 
That's obviously the mystery.

But my suggestion that she wants to go to IHOP and he says I'm up here, why don't you meet me (or something like that), could explain it. Then she says it took an hour to get my bag, lets just go home.

I didn't have a minute of time at the park ... I'm skeptical he's competent to subdue her in a minute and then drive away.
It would only take a minute. There was no one around and she was probably scared to death. Russell Williams walked behind his victim and knocked her hard in her skull as they were leaving according to his confession.
 
That's obviously the mystery.

But my suggestion that she wants to go to IHOP and he says I'm up here, why don't you meet me (or something like that), could explain it. Then she says it took an hour to get my bag, lets just go home.

I didn't have a minute of time at the park ... I'm skeptical he's competent to subdue her in a minute and then drive away.

We also don’t know what the Lyft driver did. I don’t know how the system works. I know he was looking for a new fare instantly, but did he get one and leave the park instantly? My thought is that his presence isn’t too compatible with an attack, unless AA felt confident that he could attack so effectively that the Lyft driver wouldn’t notice, even if he looked up, and looked into AA’s car.

I wonder how close the Lyft driver parked. Wouldn’t it make sense to pull up alongside the other car?
 
The Aggravated Kidnapping Charge was first charged on June 26 when AA was arrested and before ML's body was discovered. I am curious as to what evidence LE discovered that led to this charge. Did they find blood in the car where she was sitting? If aggravated kidnapping occurred while ML was at the house, what could the evidence be? Maybe evidence she was tied up?
 
<modsnip> There is no evidence whatsoever that suggests the victim had a "lifestyle" that prioritized the SB/SD lifestyle. Nor is there any evidence to suggest that her relationship with AA was from that lifestyle. It has been established he was a predator using multiple social media websites.

JMO
 
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MOO "Shaken Guy" information is all his word for it.

This is true, but I have no reason to doubt it at this point. He was not seeking fame nor camera, nor did he want his name out there, in my thoughts for very obvious reasons as in what site and what he was doing on it most likely. Thus far, LE as well has not given me any reason to doubt his story. They have matched it in that she was corresponding with AA prior to that day at minimum and rather than say there was no previous contact or relationship, made it clear they will not say at this point but if there was not, they could have excluded that possibility but they did not.

Jmo though.
 
MOO this sounds like a proposal for an alternative theory, that someone else had AA's phone at Hatch Park?

I am just back on here and catching up but no, I do not think someone else took his phone, etc. and went to Hatch Park. I simply am pointing out that there is still something missing from the park thing or it seems like it. It is the vaguest part of everything imo. Could it have been he and someone else in a different car? Could it have been him alone in a different car?

I don't know. I thought at first that they were vague about the Lyft driver not seeing if it was a female or male, etc. nor a description of a vehicle was probably because they did not want to alert the perp they were onto him or had an "inkling". Now I am not so sure as it is still a part that the details are very vague on.

But no, not an alternative theory. Clearly she was there and they were back at his house within seven or eight minutes, the park to his home. Just pointing out more so what has not been said I guess, or what we do not know, which is much :)

Jmo.
 
Didn't her friends access ML's SM when she went missing? Perhaps she had her accounts open on a laptop or other device at home. I might be wrong, but I think they had access????

jmo

Yes there was a statement in some article or PC for people to not get excited if they saw activity in her SM because it was her friends trying to help by checking it, etc. Pretty early on if I recall correctly.

Jmo.
 
Didn't AA have her SB profile on his cell phone? I thought I read that but I could be wrong.
The affidavit of probable cause said "denied having seen a photo or online profile of Mackenzie, despite investigations that the means of which he communicated with her displayed several photos of her and profile photo."
 
That's obviously the mystery.

But my suggestion that she wants to go to IHOP and he says I'm up here, why don't you meet me (or something like that), could explain it. Then she says it took an hour to get my bag, lets just go home.

I didn't have a minute of time at the park ... I'm skeptical he's competent to subdue her in a minute and then drive away.

I agree with your second paragraph. I don't think he subdued her at the park, he certainly did not kill her there in that short of a time period. I guess he could have disabled her but I doubt that as well. I think she went willingly all of the way into his house, which was his goal, getting her home for whatever the sick and twisted plan was. Into his house, in his head no provable record of her seen with him or going there--into his house under his total control. Could she have had a clue by then? Possibly. For all of his stupidity with an in town fire later, etc., I think this first part he had planned. He thought he was covered, no airport cameras, the park, not his address, he was not seen apparently--Lyft driver did not know if female or male(?). I don't see him at his home 7 or 8 minutes later, carrying her in or being seen trying to move a body or incapacitated woman into his house or yard... I also do not think the texts are going to show such a plan as meeting at the park, IF they have the texts, they have proof of contact but the actual texts I am not so sure of (based on something said awhile back in a PC). He thought he was covered up until that point (in his mind) and could just say he talked with her online but never met her...

To each their own, but your IHOP paragraph, I differ on (respectfully). I do not believe this was a "go to breakfast" meet me at the park scenario. You meet at IHOP, not some out of the way park, even allowing for naivete on her part, why not save the bucks on the Lyft and meet at the IHOP instead of some out of the way park? I think from that direction they have to double back to even get to? I do not believe they were meeting at the park to go to the International House of Pancakes...

Jmo though :)
 
I am just back on here and catching up but no, I do not think someone else took his phone, etc. and went to Hatch Park. I simply am pointing out that there is still something missing from the park thing or it seems like it. It is the vaguest part of everything imo. Could it have been he and someone else in a different car? Could it have been him alone in a different car?

I don't know. I thought at first that they were vague about the Lyft driver not seeing if it was a female or male, etc. nor a description of a vehicle was probably because they did not want to alert the perp they were onto him or had an "inkling". Now I am not so sure as it is still a part that the details are very vague on.

But no, not an alternative theory. Clearly she was there and they were back at his house within seven or eight minutes, the park to his home. Just pointing out more so what has not been said I guess, or what we do not know, which is much :)

Jmo.

You're right, there's a lot we don't know.

Re: a possible accomplice: So far, LE has only arrested/charged AA in this case. If someone else is possibly involved, we haven't heard about it.

Re: a different vehicle: When LE executed the first search warrant at AA's house, they towed his vehicle, presumably to gather evidence/process it as part of their investigation, IIRC. ( For documentation purposes, this information was linked/discussed in previous threads.) If another vehicle is involved (on AA's part), we haven't heard about it.

Like other recent cases, LE seems to be withholding lots of information, IMO, which is not necessarily a bad idea. Especially in this case, AA could've been determined to be a flight risk and LE probably didn't want to tip him off that he was under investigation. Whether or not AA is smart enough to figure that out on his own is another story :).
 
I agree with your second paragraph. I don't think he subdued her at the park, he certainly did not kill her there in that short of a time period. I guess he could have disabled her but I doubt that as well. I think she went willingly all of the way into his house, which was his goal, getting her home for whatever the sick and twisted plan was.

Jmo though :)

RSBM

I'll start off by saying I'm not a lawyer - so this is my layperson's interpretation of the charge of aggravated kidnapping - I believe it means she was seized involuntarily and a dangerous weapon was involved. If a lawyer has already weighed in on this with contradictory information and I missed it I apologize.

Source: Utah Kidnapping/Abduction Laws – Kidnapping :-

According to the statute, Utah Code Ann. § 76-5-302, a person commits the crime of aggravated kidnapping if in the course of committing kidnapping possesses, uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon and acts with intend to:

  • hold the victim for ransom or reward, or as a shield or hostage, or to compel a third person to engage in particular conduct or to forbear from engaging in particular conduct; or
  • facilitate the commission, attempted commission, or flight after commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
  • hinder or delay the discovery of or reporting of a felony; or
  • inflict bodily injury on or to terrorize the victim or another; or
  • interfere with the performance of any governmental or political function; or commit a sexual offense.
Involuntariness of the victim’s seizure and detention is the essential element of the crime of kidnapping.

BBM
 
I agree with your second paragraph. I don't think he subdued her at the park, he certainly did not kill her there in that short of a time period. I guess he could have disabled her but I doubt that as well. I think she went willingly all of the way into his house, which was his goal, getting her home for whatever the sick and twisted plan was. Into his house, in his head no provable record of her seen with him or going there--into his house under his total control. Could she have had a clue by then? Possibly. For all of his stupidity with an in town fire later, etc., I think this first part he had planned. He thought he was covered, no airport cameras, the park, not his address, he was not seen apparently--Lyft driver did not know if female or male(?). I don't see him at his home 7 or 8 minutes later, carrying her in or being seen trying to move a body or incapacitated woman into his house or yard... I also do not think the texts are going to show such a plan as meeting at the park, IF they have the texts, they have proof of contact but the actual texts I am not so sure of (based on something said awhile back in a PC). He thought he was covered up until that point (in his mind) and could just say he talked with her online but never met her...

To each their own, but your IHOP paragraph, I differ on (respectfully). I do not believe this was a "go to breakfast" meet me at the park scenario. You meet at IHOP, not some out of the way park, even allowing for naivete on her part, why not save the bucks on the Lyft and meet at the IHOP instead of some out of the way park? I think from that direction they have to double back to even get to? I do not believe they were meeting at the park to go to the International House of Pancakes...

Jmo though :)

I agree with you about AA and ML meeting for breakfast. While it's possible that that was their reason for meeting at Hatch Park, it makes more sense (to some of us) to meet at a restaurant, unless AA offered to fix bfast at his house (but then why not meet there?). In earlier threads, locals advised that there were only a few restaurants open at that time and none close by, IIRC.
 
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