Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #18 *ARREST*

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BradB said:
Or quite possibly we read too much into things. Majority assumed he knew the cameras were dummies but like a poster said which was actually brilliant, how would he have known? Unless he had connections then it's another discussion. We tend to explain things that always fit our narrative. The truth is everybody has some predator in them. From solicitors to business owners to Trump to politicians. Many people in this country will eat you up and spit you out if you arent careful.

At some point you have to put your foot down and not become prey.
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Perhaps you’ve strayed off too far with your comments?
I don’t have predator in me. I bet most sleuthers don’t either. For that matter, most people don’t have that trait, IMO. At least the people that I know.
No question there are plenty of predators. Various degrees of predatory behavior.
JMHO
 
It's entirely possible that KL was trying to follow the "always meet in public first" advice that we all get regarding internet encounters. Was the person meeting her the person she knew from pictures on the internet? Yes. So, she had checked that box. He would have been the one to suggest Hatch Park, I believe.

I think that young people today get really used to meeting up with people they've met on the internet, and over time, since most experiences are positive, they don't take elaborate precautions.

I agree that it's possible AA thought the cameras were working. What we don't know, of course, is whether he masked his license plate. I see people with those "plate blocker" things all the time (illegal in California - but they are still everywhere).
 
10ofRods said:
It's entirely possible that KL was trying to follow the "always meet in public first" advice that we all get regarding internet encounters. Was the person meeting her the person she knew from pictures on the internet? Yes. So, she had checked that box. He would have been the one to suggest Hatch Park, I believe.

I think that young people today get really used to meeting up with people they've met on the internet, and over time, since most experiences are positive, they don't take elaborate precautions.

I agree that it's possible AA thought the cameras were working. What we don't know, of course, is whether he masked his license plate. I see people with those "plate blocker" things all the time (illegal in California - but they are still everywhere).
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Couple of thoughts: First, if she had never met him in person before, it would be strange to meet him for the first time right after getting off a flight at 3 a.m., her luggage in tow. Second, if she wanted to meet in a public place, why not the airport? Or why not meet the next day, after she had unpacked and freshened up, in broad daylight in a place she was familiar with (not a park at 3 a.m. in an area of the city she was not familiar with)? Either she was really naive, which I doubt, or she trusted him because she'd already developed a relationship with him, including in person. To me, her actions, taken at face value, suggest she felt as comfortable with him as with a long-time friend or relative.
 
sumzero said:
Couple of thoughts: First, if she had never met him in person before, it would be strange to meet him for the first time right after getting off a flight at 3 a.m., her luggage in tow. Second, if she wanted to meet in a public place, why not the airport? Or why not meet the next day, after she had unpacked and freshened up, in broad daylight in a place she was familiar with (not a park at 3 a.m. in an area of the city she was not familiar with)? Either she was really naive, which I doubt, or she trusted him because she'd already developed a relationship with him, including in person. To me, her actions, taken at face value, suggest she felt as comfortable with him as with a long-time friend or relative.
Click to expand...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that meeting at the airport would seem strange to a lot of young people. It's something your friends and family do. Most young women want to seem really independent and it's kind of a landmark in a relationship when each partner starts looking after the other enough to be at the airport. I don't know why this is, but it was pretty much true even when I was KL's age.

There has to be a reason they were meeting up, for sure. Everyone has their own theory. But she went through the formula of not going directly to a stranger's house. I do believe she had developed a relationship with him, but it was entirely online.

I've met people on line and then met them in person (in a foreign country, too). But we are all women (and I wasn't alone). I also did some really dumb things as a college student that I survived (such as take a ride from a stranger - who then went in the opposite direction of my dorm, I had to jump out at a stop sign). I was constantly out and about in the wee hours of the morning (and not always in safe places, at all, my parents would have been furious had they known - but no one knew). The world seemed safe enough (despite the fact that there were 4 murders on or near campus during my first year - I still think about how naïve I really was).
 
sumzero said:
Couple of thoughts: First, if she had never met him in person before, it would be strange to meet him for the first time right after getting off a flight at 3 a.m., her luggage in tow. Second, if she wanted to meet in a public place, why not the airport? Or why not meet the next day, after she had unpacked and freshened up, in broad daylight in a place she was familiar with (not a park at 3 a.m. in an area of the city she was not familiar with)? Either she was really naive, which I doubt, or she trusted him because she'd already developed a relationship with him, including in person. To me, her actions, taken at face value, suggest she felt as comfortable with him as with a long-time friend or relative.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. Meeting at the neutral site near the police station strikes me as the type of thing you do with a 1st time face-to-face meeting with someone you've "known" online (chat/video). Given the timing of the meeting (3am on a Monday morning after coming back from a funeral) and her involvement in SD/SB stuff - I bet the nature of the meeting was more transactional than strictly social. I think this was an "arrangement" and not ML heading to what she thought was the start of a new boyfriend relationship. I think that's what gets her to meet AA vs. just heading home to go to bed. I think AA is a guy with anger issues and predisposition to violence with a sexual tilt (?). Given the mess of an effort to clean up or preemptively conceal his crime and the apparent lack of planning... I don't think murder was on his mind when he arrived at the park. I'd guess he did plan for some kind of an encounter that was way more than ML expected and when she resisted he became angry and killed her.

Will certainly acknowledge I could be wrong about some or all of the above, but I do think the SLPD have a very good idea of the "stated" reasons they got together.
 
I
thebedbug said:
I completely disagree. Meeting at the neutral site near the police station strikes me as the type of thing you do with a 1st time face-to-face meeting with someone you've "known" online (chat/video). Given the timing of the meeting (3am on a Monday morning after coming back from a funeral) and her involvement in SD/SB stuff - I bet the nature of the meeting was more transactional than strictly social. I think this was an "arrangement" and not ML heading to what she thought was the start of a new boyfriend relationship. I think that's what gets her to meet AA vs. just heading home to go to bed. I think AA is a guy with anger issues and predisposition to violence with a sexual tilt (?). Given the mess of an effort to clean up or preemptively conceal his crime and the apparent lack of planning... I don't think murder was on his mind when he arrived at the park. I'd guess he did plan for some kind of an encounter that was way more than ML expected and when she resisted he became angry and killed her.

Will certainly acknowledge I could be wrong about some or all of the above, but I do think the SLPD have a very good idea of the "stated" reasons they got together.
Click to expand...
I can't wait to hear what the texts were because there's been so much different speculation as to their content. I do feel that the answers are there, because LE was pretty confident in their arrest charges. And the fact no one else has been detained.

Has ML's phone been recovered and if so where?
 
BradB said:
Or quite possibly we read too much into things. Majority assumed he knew the cameras were dummies but like a poster said which was actually brilliant, how would he have known? Unless he had connections then it's another discussion. We tend to explain things that always fit our narrative. The truth is everybody has some predator in them. From solicitors to business owners to Trump to politicians. Many people in this country will eat you up and spit you out if you arent careful.

At some point you have to put your foot down and not become prey.
Click to expand...

I don't have a narrative and don't think the dummy camera issue is even an issue. I think being taken in by a solicitor is not remotely similar to being lured by a seasoned predator who intends, for his or her own sport, your brutal death and callous disposal. And no, not everyone has a 'predator' in them on par with the nature of a psychopath. A solicitor or businessman or cunning politician moves about a social order where these are games and power plays that can be understood and discerned, and therefore learned from and avoided. The handbook in those cases is a relative known. When I say that narcissists and psychopaths are operating out a handbook the rest of us haven't read, I really mean it, having had to lay someone precious to rest who'd been in the lair, so to speak, with a human version of an apex predator. We think we (or usually we think 'other people') are powerful enough to know all the consequences and possibilities and tricks and be on top of deadly outcomes at every turn. We often promote the idea that others are/were more capable than they truly were, and should have been in command of a scenario, where it was just so obvious to us, on the sidelines of the news about their body being found. Why couldn't they have just put their foot down way sooner, in what we like to think is a one false move world where we had an informed choice about everything.

I can appreciate that there are safety measures to be learned from these cases. Personally, I would not do so many of the things that I see some doing in their social connections with others. I have a friend who brought a total stranger home and she lives in an isolated rural area where no one would have heard her scream, if she had a chance to scream. But I also think that Mackenzie could have met this person at a church ice cream social, gone to Bible study with on Wednesday night, and been found dead Thursday morning.
 
Lillymac said:
I

I can't wait to hear what the texts were because there's been so much different speculation as to their content. I do feel that the answers are there, because LE was pretty confident in their arrest charges. And the fact no one else has been detained.

Has ML's phone been recovered and if so where?
Click to expand...

I agree that the answers will be in the texts.

I thought that LE said they found her phone in the backyard burn site?
 
10ofRods said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that meeting at the airport would seem strange to a lot of young people. It's something your friends and family do. Most young women want to seem really independent and it's kind of a landmark in a relationship when each partner starts looking after the other enough to be at the airport. I don't know why this is, but it was pretty much true even when I was KL's age.

There has to be a reason they were meeting up, for sure. Everyone has their own theory. But she went through the formula of not going directly to a stranger's house. I do believe she had developed a relationship with him, but it was entirely online.

I've met people on line and then met them in person (in a foreign country, too). But we are all women (and I wasn't alone). I also did some really dumb things as a college student that I survived (such as take a ride from a stranger - who then went in the opposite direction of my dorm, I had to jump out at a stop sign). I was constantly out and about in the wee hours of the morning (and not always in safe places, at all, my parents would have been furious had they known - but no one knew). The world seemed safe enough (despite the fact that there were 4 murders on or near campus during my first year - I still think about how naïve I really was).
Click to expand...

Never having been on any type of dating/meeting site..Experience has shown me that even without looking for a relationship, an unbelievable amount of trust can be developed online which may eventually lead to phone calls and a closeness and intensity which make meeting "in real life" for a mutually enjoyable intimate encounter almost inevitable assuming one isn't dishonest about their appearance,life style etc.

AA seems to have exhibited a propensity to embellish almost anything about himself. A first time meet may have easily taken a bad turn for KL. Knowing she had no apparent way to extricate herself she would have had little choice but to hide her emotions until it was no longer possible....

All IMO
 
jillycat said:
I don't have a narrative and don't think the dummy camera issue is even an issue. I think being taken in by a solicitor is not remotely similar to being lured by a seasoned predator who intends, for his or her own sport, your brutal death and callous disposal. And no, not everyone has a 'predator' in them on par with the nature of a psychopath. A solicitor or businessman or cunning politician moves about a social order where these are games and power plays that can be understood and discerned, and therefore learned from and avoided. The handbook in those cases is a relative known. When I say that narcissists and psychopaths are operating out a handbook the rest of us haven't read, I really mean it, having had to lay someone precious to rest who'd been in the lair, so to speak, with a human version of an apex predator. We think we (or usually we think 'other people') are powerful enough to know all the consequences and possibilities and tricks and be on top of deadly outcomes at every turn. We often promote the idea that others are/were more capable than they truly were, and should have been in command of a scenario, where it was just so obvious to us, on the sidelines of the news about their body being found. Why couldn't they have just put their foot down way sooner, in what we like to think is a one false move world where we had an informed choice about everything.

I can appreciate that there are safety measures to be learned from these cases. Personally, I would not do so many of the things that I see some doing in their social connections with others. I have a friend who brought a total stranger home and she lives in an isolated rural area where no one would have heard her scream, if she had a chance to scream. But I also think that Mackenzie could have met this person at a church ice cream social, gone to Bible study with on Wednesday night, and been found dead Thursday morning.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you're saying but I'm under the strong belief youre more likely to encounter unlikely and harmful situations at night and in the early morning hours. Theres a reason LE is posted everywhere especially during holidays to stop drunk drivers at night, t's a statistical fact it's more likely they roam around at night.

People try to make this guy some mastermind with the dummy camera angle or whatever but the fact remains he is a clown. Sparks, AA are clowns. For whatever reason, clowns come out at night. To me, it's not an opinion its fact.

I've seen it. Heard it. Been through it all. Maybe my perception is different because of that.
 
wary said:
I agree that the answers will be in the texts.

I thought that LE said they found her phone in the backyard burn site?
Click to expand...
I don't know about her phone. I can't remember.

But I do remember it being reported there were Instagram posts on her account the next day. Was this ever confirmed? I had forgotten until one of her friends on the podcast mentioned it...
 
night train said:
Never having been on any type of dating/meeting site..Experience has shown me that even without looking for a relationship, an unbelievable amount of trust can be developed online which may eventually lead to phone calls and a closeness and intensity which make meeting "in real life" for a mutually enjoyable intimate encounter almost inevitable assuming one isn't dishonest about their appearance,life style etc.

AA seems to have exhibited a propensity to embellish almost anything about himself. A first time meet may have easily taken a bad turn for KL. Knowing she had no apparent way to extricate herself she would have had little choice but to hide her emotions until it was no longer possible....

All IMO
Click to expand...

I am on the same dating sites that ml was. I've never heard of anyone meeting except at public places like Starbucks, for lunch, or a well-known bar. I understand that some people develop fraudulent online relationships but let's keep in mind that ml was a 23 year-old from LA. Plus, based on what we know of aa's writing, there's no way he could pull off a scam for too long.

Obviously, she didn't know he was a killer but it seems pretty obvious to me she knew him before 3 a.m. This really isnt that different that the murder earlier this year of another attractive college student here in SLC who was dating a culturally different bouncer for a while who ultimately killed her after she broke it off.
 
Lillymac said:
I don't know about her phone. I can't remember.

But I do remember it being reported there were Instagram posts on her account the next day. Was this ever confirmed? I had forgotten until one of her friends on the podcast mentioned it...
Click to expand...

My recollection is they found her phone in the burned area. Hard to know if they will be able to recover text from it or her iCloud account. I suspect he erased the text from his phone so we may never know the content of those texts, other than that they did occur.
 
Puzzled25 said:
I am on the same dating sites that ml was. I've never heard of anyone meeting except at public places like Starbucks, for lunch, or a well-known bar. I understand that some people develop fraudulent online relationships but let's keep in mind that ml was a 23 year-old from LA. Plus, based on what we know of aa's writing, there's no way he could pull off a scam for too long.

Obviously, she didn't know he was a killer but it seems pretty obvious to me she knew him before 3 a.m. This really isnt that different that the murder earlier this year of another attractive college student here in SLC who was dating a culturally different bouncer for a while who ultimately killed her after she broke it off.
Click to expand...
You say it isn't that different than the murder earlier this year. How is it similar. Can you give me the name? tia
 
Lillymac said:
I don't know about her phone. I can't remember.

But I do remember it being reported there were Instagram posts on her account the next day. Was this ever confirmed? I had forgotten until one of her friends on the podcast mentioned it...
Click to expand...
From the podcast, I recall it as ML making Instagram posts but not returning text messages from friend making inquiry after funeral. I don't believe there were Instagram posts after 6/17.

And from the news reports, I recall there was report of ML following and/or being followed by a site after she was reported missing. Much has already posted about this incident.

MOO
 
Puzzled25 said:
My recollection is they found her phone in the burned area. Hard to know if they will be able to recover text from it or her iCloud account. I suspect he erased the text from his phone so we may never know the content of those texts, other than that they did occur.
Click to expand...

Yes, a phone was found at his house, charred....I assume it was hers

Human bone, muscular tissue, a charred cellphone and other personal items were also discovered in Ajayi's backyard, according to Gill.

Man formally charged in murder of Utah college student Mackenzie Lueck
 
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