Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #18 *ARREST*

[girlhasnoname]

It's entirely possible that KL was trying to follow the "always meet in public first" advice that we all get regarding internet encounters. Was the person meeting her the person she knew from pictures on the internet? Yes. So, she had checked that box. He would have been the one to suggest Hatch Park, I believe.

I think that young people today get really used to meeting up with people they've met on the internet, and over time, since most experiences are positive, they don't take elaborate precautions.

I agree that it's possible AA thought the cameras were working. What we don't know, of course, is whether he masked his license plate. I see people with those "plate blocker" things all the time (illegal in California - but they are still everywhere).

ITA that this generation of young ladies don't think a thing about meeting up with people they've met on the internet.

My niece is an outstanding straight A student, has never done drugs or been in trouble, is an accomplished artist (has had showings) and she took off one weekend to go visit a group her age that were interested in anime and had met through a blog chat. Our convo went something like this.....

Her: Hey Aunt L, I'm going to Atlanta to an anime convention.
Me: Cool, sounds fun. Who are you going with?
Her: Some friends I met on an online chat.
Me: WTH??!! Who are these people???? How old are they?? Where are you staying??? Did your mother talk to these people?? What are you thinking, there are weirdos out there online just looking for gorgeous young girls and you could get killed. Are you crazy?? WTH. you are NOT going.

My niece thought I was crazy. She went and had a blast, I worried myself sick all weekend.

My point being, it's a different mindset completely. I can't comprehend her thinking, and she will never understand mine.

I think Kenzie knew this suspect, not in a romantic way IMO. She met up with him not expecting any problems, again MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree with most of what you're saying but I'm under the strong belief youre more likely to encounter unlikely and harmful situations at night and in the early morning hours. Theres a reason LE is posted everywhere especially during holidays to stop drunk drivers at night, t's a statistical fact it's more likely they roam around at night.

People try to make this guy some mastermind with the dummy camera angle or whatever but the fact remains he is a clown. Sparks, AA are clowns. For whatever reason, clowns come out at night. To me, it's not an opinion its fact.

I've seen it. Heard it. Been through it all. Maybe my perception is different because of that.

This suspect is a MURDERER and a psychopath IMO.

 

[al66pine]

How Well do we Know People?

I am on the same dating sites that ml was. I've never heard of anyone meeting except at public places like Starbucks, for lunch, or a well-known bar. I understand that some people develop fraudulent online relationships but let's keep in mind that ml was a 23 year-old from LA. Plus, based on what we know of aa's writing, there's no way he could pull off a scam for too long.
Obviously, she didn't know he was a killer but it seems pretty obvious to me she knew him before 3 a.m. This really isnt that different that the murder earlier this year of another attractive college student here in SLC who was dating a culturally different bouncer for a while who ultimately killed her after she broke it off.

Okay, let's say for sake of discussion ---
- ML & AA had multiple online contacts before 3:00am. Maybe messaging in dating apps and texting.
- They also had met in person, say 1- latte, 2- lunch, and 3- happy hour, on different days.

Imo, jmo, moo, that ^ alone does not translate into 'knowing him" at least not well enough to provide a comfy basis for meeting under the circumstances they did. Imo, doesn't matter whether park meeting was arranged as a hook-up/friends w benefits, business/networking/mentoring/back-scratching, ex: pix for her modelling portfolio, late night IHOP buddy breakfast, amateur 'grief counseling,' etc.

In this case, some digital digging into AAs life would/should have set off the alarms. His book, even his MeetUp profile, and more I don't recall ATM. Not trying to blame her. For you @Puzzled25 & some others here, the ^ hypo'l communications/contacts may be sufficient for their/your meeting in those circumstances.
It's a matter of personal opinion: our personal assessments of potential risk/reward differ.

Now returning to full 100 y/o hermit/recluse status waaaaaaay back in my cave. At least temporarily.

 

[BradB]

This suspect is a MURDERER and a psychopath IMO.

Of course he is. I'm just preaching awareness. Anybody out here can be AA. You should already know this if you're an adult woman or even teenager.

 

[Lillymac]

I d

Dating violence. I don't find them similar.

What really happened to Lauren McCluskey? The inside story of her tragic death

I don't find the details similar at all either except they're both so tragic. The personna of the men very similar. Liars, rapists, users and predators.

 

[kaykay543]

Just a few thoughts that I keep mulling over in reading the discussions.

1. She was young, very young. Whatever her history or experiences, she was still a young college student.

2. He was likely planning this for months. I look back to the comments to the man he wanted to build his secret room. He wanted it for his "Mormon girlfriend." I could be wrong but he may have been planning this then.

3. Psychopaths are very convincing and adept at grooming their victims. When you think of it as "that night" it may seem strange that she met him at 3 am at the park. Many are guessing at what draw there was. But, again, psychopaths can groom for months. It could have been anything but I am convinced he knew exactly what was needed to get her there when he needed her there.

It is predator and prey in the psychopath world. ML did not live in that world. She was real, beautiful and trusting. If she had never crossed a psychopath before, she would have absolutely no clue how evil one could be. In contrast, a psychopath or predatory personality, can read and groom a victim almost perfectly. It is an absolutely unfair fight, particularly with her youth.

Psychopaths, narcissists, predators,. whatever you call it....can be very adept at appearing to have consciences when they dont. Someone as trusting as young as ML would have a very difficult time against someone like that.

Most individuals who have had a narcissist cross their path are very weary and vigilant for signs they never saw before. But, before having that experience, most people, especially so young, are no match for that type of cunning and evil.

Just some general thoughts. I think he had a predatory ability to read his intended victims well and those he picked were likely picked because of their traits such as compassion or kindness that could be used against them.

MOO

<modsnip - soliciting private message, please contact a mod instead>

I agree!

Young people never think they will die or be harmed. They are inherently risk takers. This is why so many teens die in car crashes. I know ML was not a teen. But she was still young enough to believe that she was invincible.

Narcassists are master manipulators. Then add in sexual sadist and it’s a time bomb waiting to go off. Imo he’s similar to Ted bundy. Manipulated women into trusting him and then brutally murdered them. Somehow he got ML to trust him.

 

[Puzzled25]

Dating violence. I don't find them similar.

What really happened to Lauren McCluskey? The inside story of her tragic death

I understand your view but I do find them similar. Both attractive college women in Salt Lake City. In the case of Lauren, she was dating someone culturally different than her and didn't realize for some time the danger. She could, of course, have dated someone in athletics, someone from the business or engineering school, or even a 45 year old divorce doctor but chose to date a bouncer she met at a bar. We don't know the relationship between AA and ml but can't disregard the possibility they were dating or had some other relationship simply because they were culturally different. In fact, I suspect AA may have been encouraged by Lauren's Killer's ability to date an attractive college student.

How Well do we Know People?


Okay, let's say for sake of discussion ---
- ML & AA had multiple online contacts before 3:00am. Maybe messaging in dating apps and texting.
- They also had met in person, say 1- latte, 2- lunch, and 3- happy hour, on different days.

Imo, jmo, moo, that ^ alone does not translate into 'knowing him" at least not well enough to provide a comfy basis for meeting under the circumstances they did. Imo, doesn't matter whether park meeting was arranged as a hook-up/friends w benefits, business/networking/mentoring/back-scratching, ex: pix for her modelling portfolio, late night IHOP buddy breakfast, amateur 'grief counseling,' etc.

In this case, some digital digging into AAs life would/should have set off the alarms. His book, even his MeetUp profile, and more I don't recall ATM. Not trying to blame her. For you @Puzzled25 & some others here, the ^ hypo'l communications/contacts may be sufficient for their/your meeting in those circumstances.
It's a matter of personal opinion: our personal assessments of potential risk/reward differ.

Now returning to full 100 y/o hermit/recluse status waaaaaaay back in my cave. At least temporarily.

I don't disagree normally, before I meet anyone, I usually have exchanged or figured out their social media. I'm a guy but still take precautions! The 3 a.m. park meeting continues to be a mystery since I'm familiar with the mutual vetting going on before people meet. I have a couple of innocent hypotheses that fit with the facts such as meeting with the intention of going somewhere to the north of Salt Lake. I can come up with a couple of not-so-innocent hypotheses but I've not read anything that would factually support those.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

What do you mean by 'culturally different'? There is nothing in that article about Lauren McCluskey that would indicate cultural differences being a problem. Her murderer sounds like a classic controlling domestic abuser who also was hiding his true identity and criminal past.

 

[SoCalGirl]

The original post is not appearing here, I'm responding to Puzzled25's post about Lauren McCluskey's murder. Her killer misrepresented himself, too. He told her he was in school part-time finishing up a degree, and he lied about his age (and obviously the fact that he was a felon on parole). Once she investigated him further, she broke it off.

 

[SoCalGirl]

I completely disagree. Meeting at the neutral site near the police station strikes me as the type of thing you do with a 1st time face-to-face meeting with someone you've "known" online (chat/video). Given the timing of the meeting (3am on a Monday morning after coming back from a funeral) and her involvement in SD/SB stuff - I bet the nature of the meeting was more transactional than strictly social. I think this was an "arrangement" and not ML heading to what she thought was the start of a new boyfriend relationship. I think that's what gets her to meet AA vs. just heading home to go to bed. I think AA is a guy with anger issues and predisposition to violence with a sexual tilt (?). Given the mess of an effort to clean up or preemptively conceal his crime and the apparent lack of planning... I don't think murder was on his mind when he arrived at the park. I'd guess he did plan for some kind of an encounter that was way more than ML expected and when she resisted he became angry and killed her.

Will certainly acknowledge I could be wrong about some or all of the above, but I do think the SLPD have a very good idea of the "stated" reasons they got together.

The meeting was not in a neutral place, though. The meeting was in his car; that's not neutral and at 3 am, she had to know the location, even though public, was going to be deserted. This leads me to believe she'd met him in person before. I could be totally wrong. We have so many theories on this site, at least a few are going to end up being true - if we ever do find out the details of the text messages.

 

[Destini]

Because of this woman's candor, your son made an informed choice regarding whether to see her or not. What did she learn?

I have no idea, possibly it will be difficult for her to find someone who accepts mental illness. I actually felt bad for her, but concern for my son trumped that.

That's why Kenzie's case interests me so much. Some people, such as AA, are not candid, have ulterior motives, and even a person who thinks they are well informed and take all the precautions they know to take find it is still not enough to keep them safe.

I suppose this can be true for online dating as well as the old-fashioned kind. There are just evil people in the world.

 

[night train]

I completely disagree. Meeting at the neutral site near the police station strikes me as the type of thing you do with a 1st time face-to-face meeting with someone you've "known" online (chat/video). Given the timing of the meeting (3am on a Monday morning after coming back from a funeral) and her involvement in SD/SB stuff - I bet the nature of the meeting was more transactional than strictly social. I think this was an "arrangement" and not ML heading to what she thought was the start of a new boyfriend relationship. I think that's what gets her to meet AA vs. just heading home to go to bed. I think AA is a guy with anger issues and predisposition to violence with a sexual tilt (?). Given the mess of an effort to clean up or preemptively conceal his crime and the apparent lack of planning... I don't think murder was on his mind when he arrived at the park. I'd guess he did plan for some kind of an encounter that was way more than ML expected and when she resisted he became angry and killed her.

Will certainly acknowledge I could be wrong about some or all of the above, but I do think the SLPD have a very good idea of the "stated" reasons they got together.

With respect and sympathy..No matter what I'd like to believe...
Looking at everything objectively, the post above rings as the most plausible scenario I've read through multiple pages of discussion.

IMO

 

[Puzzled25]

The original post is not appearing here, I'm responding to Puzzled25's post about Lauren McCluskey's murder. Her killer misrepresented himself, too. He told her he was in school part-time finishing up a degree, and he lied about his age (and obviously the fact that he was a felon on parole). Once she investigated him further, she broke it off.

Her killer definitely lied but she was told he was a 30 year old bouncer going to school part time. Later she figured out it was far worse than that but tried to break it off.

By culturally different, I mean that KL and LM were both attractive college students from middle class or upper middle class families. LM thought she was dating someone who could be described as an unsuccessful thirty-year-old African American who still hadn't made it through college and was working at a low-level job. Isn't that the same way to describe AA?

Vetting ppl online

@Puzzled25 sbm bbm
Yes, a person's soc media like Facebook, Twitter, can tell us a lot but can withhold a lot more. Virtually all that content is self-reported/self-initiated/self-edited so is subjective. Not cold, dry facts some of which are not likely to surface on soc media.

For meaningful vetting, sites like 'beenverified.com' or other services w data mined from public records is a good start toward facts about a person. From the BV site: “Using just a legal name, you can generate a report that includes known aliases or other names, marital status, current and former addresses and phone numbers, birthdate, family members or roommates, arrest history, conviction record, business associations, work history, professional or business licenses, property records, tax records, litigation history, driving records, sex offender registration, political party affiliation and more.”
https://www.beenverified.com/lp/32fc4f/4/subscribe#. <<< subscription prices.

^ not all the deets on ppl you want to know/know about, regardless of type of relationship you envision, but a start. Jmo. Back on topic, to ML.

I'm not saying someone shouldn't use those services but I can normally tell whether someone is faking their social media. Since AA didn't have any convictions, there wouldn't have been much info a value on that site. On the other hand, his available social media makes it pretty obvious that he's narcissistic and unsuccessful. Anyone would see that looking at his Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Model Mayhem pages. It might have been harder to find his Meetup page which gave additional information. I will often see women that I am dating looking at my LinkedIn page.

 

[distracted]

I'm going to tiptoe in and say something that's MOO. But...my background includes mental health forensics (not a shrink, but with experience in diagnostics).

SO. There are personalities (Cluster B) that quickly suss out how to manipulate others. They have an eerie ability to try different strategies (so, they know to act like they need help if and only if the other person is a caregiver). There's a lot written on this. Is a person ambitious/seeking upward mobility? They quickly have an elaborate persona that will facilitate that. Is the person a loner/introspective? They have a quiet place they know about or can offer.

IOW, it's not what KL thought or did, it's the manipulative ability of the suspect. I'm sure the people currently jailing him are aware of this. They are usually very charming and friendly...

I call them chameleons. And, yes, they are very charming - until they're not - which is what makes them so terribly dangerous. You only have to know one well to spot them a mile away, though. Unfortunately, not all survive knowing one well.

 

[distracted]

I understand your view but I do find them similar. Both attractive college women in Salt Lake City. In the case of Lauren, she was dating someone culturally different than her and didn't realize for some time the danger. She could, of course, have dated someone in athletics, someone from the business or engineering school, or even a 45 year old divorce doctor but chose to date a bouncer she met at a bar. We don't know the relationship between AA and ml but can't disregard the possibility they were dating or had some other relationship simply because they were culturally different. In fact, I suspect AA may have been encouraged by Lauren's Killer's ability to date an attractive college student.


I don't disagree normally, before I meet anyone, I usually have exchanged or figured out their social media. I'm a guy but still take precautions! The 3 a.m. park meeting continues to be a mystery since I'm familiar with the mutual vetting going on before people meet. I have a couple of innocent hypotheses that fit with the facts such as meeting with the intention of going somewhere to the north of Salt Lake. I can come up with a couple of not-so-innocent hypotheses but I've not read anything that would factually support those.

The other similarity that I would add is that he deceived Lauren about who he was. He was much older than he led her to believe and that he had been in prison. He had forged an identity that would be acceptable to her, much like AA did over and over.

 

[indicolite22]

I don't think murder was on his mind when he arrived at the park. I'd guess he did plan for some kind of an encounter that was way more than ML expected and when she resisted he became angry and killed her.

Wasn't her phone shut down immediately after getting into his car? To me this indicates his prior intent to harm OR that she was entirely comfortable with him (e.g. had met him before) and shut her phone off to save battery, etc.

 

[Moma J]

Encourage anyone on web dating sites or any site where you would likely meet the person eventually to check out who they are conversing with and do a good back ground check if available. Too many young ladies are getting hurt and killed from situations they weren’t well versed in. My heart goes out to ML’s family and friends.JMOO

 

[Puzzled25]

Wasn't her phone shut down immediately after getting into his car? To me this indicates his prior intent to harm OR that she was entirely comfortable with him (e.g. had met him before) and shut her phone off to save battery, etc.

Yes it was shut down immediately. Initially I thought that was some evidence of prior intent to harm her. However, now that we know when he arrived home, it's apparent there wouldn't have been any time to spare at Hatch Park since he arrived home within 7 or 8 minutes after she arrived at Hatch Park which matches the drive time. I don't think he was competent enough to force her to turn off the phone and subdue her that quickly which makes me think she turned it off.

 

[Niner]

Someone mentioned - sorry did catch the poster - & said he wasn't charged with aggravated murder. Here is what he is charged with according to my notes.:

formally charged (7/10/19) with criminal homicide 1st degree felony aggravated murder, 1st degree aggravated kidnapping, 2nd degree desecration of a body & 3rd degree obstruction of justice. Held without bond.

 

[indicolite22]

Yes it was shut down immediately. Initially I thought that was some evidence of prior intent to harm her. However, now that we know when he arrived home, it's apparent there wouldn't have been any time to spare at Hatch Park since he arrived home within 7 or 8 minutes after she arrived at Hatch Park which matches the drive time. I don't think he was competent enough to force her to turn off the phone and subdue her that quickly which makes me think she turned it off.

Unless he threatened her with a gun? Was there any blood found in his car? Any indication that she fought back?