Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #19 *ARREST*

[margarita25]

I haven’t studied the latest charges closely yet—-for this to have occurred back in 2018, they would have to have definitive “proof” to proceed with these charges.

I’m wondering if she had a rape kit done back then and they got a conclusive match, otherwise it would be here-say, right?

 

[Mspionage]

Respectfully, as a child survivor of an adult predator in the '70s and then as a university student in the '80s who survived some scary moments in the company of socially dominant men on campus, on the urban US east coast, nope. Nope nope nope. Victim disbelieving and victim blaming and shaming were just as prevalent then as they are now. Women might have whispered among their most trusted girlfriends about the peers who assaulted them or were creepily aggressive on dates, but we never let our male friends know. We trusted them with many things, but still that trust had gendered limits, because we also knew how they joked around about dating behavior, how they behaved, or at least postured, when on the prowl. Becoming one of those stories of either frustration or 'conquest' would have been the social kiss of death. And telling our parents? Unthinkable. They thought we were good girls, and things like that just didn't happen to good girls.

The situation may appear more openly toxic now, because women are speaking out in increasing numbers and their abusers try to defend their own behavior by attacking the women's. But the silencing then, the pressure not to rock the boat or let anyone know damaging things had been done to you by social peers or authority figures, the internalizing by women of the need to self-police and self-blame instead of understanding that forced intimacy is assault and assault is always a crime, was absolutely suffocating.

JMO

Fair enough Jane, fair enough. I guess I just see it from my own perspective and I would absolutely throttle any man who did that to a woman or harmed them/kids in any manner so I guess I expect the same belief system and behavior from other men but, yeah, I know it is not as abundant as I may make it. Unfortunate.

 

[margarita25]

Yes Bundy was a biter. In fact his bitemark helped lead to one of his last victims. Imo

Thank you, that must have been one SK I was thinking of. I know I’ve seen a few others on Forensic Files, etc.

One thing ftr (slightly o/t) I was surprised by when seeing reference to bite marks in other cases, was that a bite mark can be unique, but it certainly isn’t conclusive proof like a fingerprint as bite marks can actually resemble others’ impressions, as much as it appears to be a “unique match”. (Hope that made sense.) In other words, a bite mark isn’t necessarily a definitive be all end all, from the standpoint of forensic evidence. Perhaps that area has advanced as has DNA.

(ETA: re: bite marks, the human mouth has a lot of bacteria and often will lead to infection of the bite mark. I saw a case where a man went to the hospital with a bite mark claiming the injury was sustained otherwise. But they were able to conclude it was a bite mark due to specifics relating to the infection. Rambling here...)

—-

ETA2: I would feel comfortable concluding one of his MOs is “biting”—Iirc, this is not something you just do on one victim and not necessarily another, I could be wrong on that.

My point is if there are other cases out there, I’d be looking for reports of the victim being bitten, as this is fairly unique, moo.

 

[PommyMommy]

This may be a stupid question or not relevant, but did he rape her....is that what is meant by forcible sexual abuse?

I would say no. This is the definition: Forcible Sexual Abuse § 76-5-404

(1) An individual commits forcible sexual abuse if the victim is 14 years of age or older and, under circumstances not amounting to rape, object rape, forcible sodomy, or attempted rape or forcible sodomy, the actor touches the anus, buttocks, pubic area, or any part of the genitals of another, or touches the breast of a female, or otherwise takes indecent liberties with another, with intent to cause substantial emotional or bodily pain to any individual or with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any individual, without the consent of the other, regardless of the sex of any participant.

(cont.)

Suspect accused in murder of U of U student MacKenzie Lueck charged with abusing another woman he met on dating app | Gephardt Daily
[...]

The probable cause statement says the woman then attempted to stop Ajayi and get away, but he got on top of her and pinned her down on the couch, against her will.

Ajayi then placed his hand on her thigh, and began grinding against her, pressing his male organ between her legs, over her clothing, the statement says.

Ajayi pulled the woman’s shirt up and her bra down, the woman told police. He grabbed the woman’s left breast, and began biting, she said. The woman said she was bitten three times on the nipple and breast, which caused her significant pain and left bruising and bite marks, she said.

[...]

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven’t studied the latest charges closely yet—-for this to have occurred back in 2018, they would have to have definitive “proof” to proceed with these charges.

I’m wondering if she had a rape kit done back then and they got a conclusive match, otherwise it would be here-say, right?

I don't think she was raped. He was charged with sexual assault. I'm assuming they are basing the charges off of her description of what happened, and any other evidence they might have. I don't think the incident had been reported when it happened. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

I haven’t studied the latest charges closely yet—-for this to have occurred back in 2018, they would have to have definitive “proof” to proceed with these charges.

I’m wondering if she had a rape kit done back then and they got a conclusive match, otherwise it would be here-say, right?

There might not be DNA. In many rape cases for instance, it is a “she said, he said.”

That can lead to charges being dropped, or an acquittal when charges are filed.

Also, this was sexual abuse, and not rape.

There is little chance of DNA evidence.

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven’t studied the latest charges closely yet—-for this to have occurred back in 2018, they would have to have definitive “proof” to proceed with these charges.

I’m wondering if she had a rape kit done back then and they got a conclusive match, otherwise it would be here-say, right?

I don't think she was raped. He was charged with sexual assault. I'm assuming they are basing the charges off of her description of what happened, and any other evidence they might have. I don't think the incident had been reported when it happened.

Thank you, that must have been one SK I was thinking of. I know I’ve seen a few others on Forensic Files, etc.

One thing ftr (slightly o/t) I was surprised by when seeing reference to bite marks, was that a bite mark can be unique, but it certainly isn’t conclusive proof like a fingerprint as bite marks can actually resemble others’ impressions, as much as it appears to be a “match”. (Hope that made sense.) In other words, a bite mark isn’t necessarily definitive, from the standpoint of forensic evidence. Perhaps that area has advanced as has DNA.

(ETA: re: bite marks, the human moth had a lot of bacteria and often will lead to infection of the bite mark. I saw a case where a man went to the hospital with a bite mark claiming the injury was sustained otherwise. But they were able to co Clyde it was a bite mark due to specifics relating to the infection. Rambling here...)

Yes, there have been other biters, I'm sure. It wasn't the DNA but the pattern of the bitemark that matched his teeth, I think. Imo

 

[PommyMommy]

I was just coming here to post the link to the new charges. I love that you all are so on top of things!
I am curious why the kidnapping charge and not just a rape/sexual assault charge? Makes me wonder if he held her longer even after the rape perhaps with restraints. I mean sexual assault is essentially a form of kidnapping for the moment, but I don't think we often see that charge along with a rape charge. I am just speculating why the kidnapping charge was applied here.

He absolutely has a pattern, and you can clearly see an escalation when you look back on the big picture timeline. He was always going to escalate to murder IMO.

BBM

She tried to leave and he pinned her down and sexually abused her. MOO

 

[margarita25]

Kudos to whoever reported and lived this horrible assault. I pray you have all the support you need to heal.

So, to make sure I have this correct, this is not the same victim that came forward here earlier, right? Iirc that assault had occurred in his bedroom and not on the couch.

 

[margarita25]

BBM

She tried to leave and he pinned her down and assaulted her. MOO

I’m all foggy, I need to just read but could he have bound/restrained her? We know he’s into bondage, etc.

ETA: Many rapists “bind”, of course....kwim.

 

[MassGuy]

So, to make sure I have this correct, this is not the same victim that came forward here earlier, iirc that assault had occurred in his bedroom and not on the couch.

Correct. That particular woman declined to pursue charges against him.

This is a different woman entirely, who happens to have had a very similar interaction with him.

I’m sure there are many more like her.

 

[kbpirate]

Respectfully, as a child survivor of an adult predator in the '70s and then as a university student in the '80s who survived some scary moments in the company of socially dominant men on campus, on the urban US east coast, nope. Nope nope nope. Victim disbelieving and victim blaming and shaming were just as prevalent then as they are now. Women might have whispered among their most trusted girlfriends about the peers who assaulted them or were creepily aggressive on dates, but we never let our male friends know. We trusted them with many things, but still that trust had gendered limits, because we also knew how they joked around about dating behavior, how they behaved, or at least postured, when on the prowl. Becoming one of those stories of either frustration or 'conquest' would have been the social kiss of death. And telling our parents? Unthinkable. They thought we were good girls, and things like that just didn't happen to good girls.

The situation may appear more openly toxic now, because women are speaking out in increasing numbers and their abusers try to defend their own behavior by attacking the women's. But the silencing then, the pressure not to rock the boat or let anyone know damaging things had been done to you by social peers or authority figures, the internalizing by women of the need to self-police and self-blame instead of understanding that forced intimacy is assault and assault is always a crime, was absolutely suffocating.

JMO

Yes to everything you said. The difference is we are more aware due to 24 hour news and constant access to this information via internet access

 

[PommyMommy]

I’m all foggy, I need to just read but could he have bound/restrained her? We know he’s into bondage, etc.

ETA: Many rapists “bind”, of course....kwim.

No mention of any restraints that I've seen.

Suspect accused in murder of U of U student MacKenzie Lueck charged with abusing another woman he met on dating app | Gephardt Daily
[...]

The probable cause statement says the woman then attempted to stop Ajayi and get away, but he got on top of her and pinned her down on the couch, against her will.

Ajayi then placed his hand on her thigh, and began grinding against her, pressing his male organ between her legs, over her clothing, the statement says.

Ajayi pulled the woman’s shirt up and her bra down, the woman told police. He grabbed the woman’s left breast, and began biting, she said. The woman said she was bitten three times on the nipple and breast, which caused her significant pain and left bruising and bite marks, she said.

[...]

 

[MsBetsy]

There might not be DNA. In many cases, it is a “she said, he said.”

That can lead to charges being dropped, or an acquittal when charges are filed.

Also, this was sexual abuse, and not rape.

There is little chance of DNA evidence.

It was sexual abuse? I thought it was sexual assault so my previous posts are wrong, sorry. I thought for sure I read sexual assault. Oh well. I may not be able to edit because I'm running out the door.
I thought sexual abuse usually pertained to a child? Imo

 

[margarita25]

I’m all confused on the difference between SA and Rape. Is this specific to the type of sexual act(s) forced? Grabbing some coffee.

ETA: Meaning I thought (and think) rape is rape even if penetration doesn’t necessarily occur.

 

[MassGuy]

It was sexual abuse? I thought it was sexual assault so my previous posts are wrong, sorry. I thought for sure I read sexual assault. Oh well. I may not be able to edit because I'm running out the door.
I thought sexual abuse usually pertained to a child? Imo

Yeah, I had to edit my last post for the same reason, I thought it was sexual assault too.

Typically, it is related to crimes against children. Apparently the law is written differently in Utah.

Here’s what the Salt Lake Tribune said:

The man accused of killing MacKenzie Lueck, a 23-year-old University of Utah student, has been charged with four new felony counts of kidnapping and sexually abusing another woman in March 2018.

 

[PommyMommy]

I’m all confused on the difference between SA and Rape. Is this specific to the type of sexual act(s) forced? Grabbing some coffee.

ETA: Meaning I thought (and think) rape is rape even if penetration doesn’t necessarily occur.

He is charged with 3 counts Forcible Sexual Abuse § 76-5-404

Rape § 76-5-402

 

[PommyMommy]

Yeah, I had to edit my last post for the same reason, I thought it was sexual assault too.

Typically, it is related to crimes against children. Apparently the law is written differently in Utah.

Here’s what the Salt Lake Tribune said:

The man accused of killing MacKenzie Lueck, a 23-year-old University of Utah student, has been charged with four new felony counts of kidnapping and sexually abusing another woman in March 2018.

This is from KUTV:

Man accused of killing MacKenzie Lueck charged with kidnapping another woman
Aggravated kidnapping and three counts of forcible sexual abuse charges were filed against Ayoola Ajayi in the Third District Court Tuesday.

Gephardt Daily is even clearer:

Suspect accused in murder of U of U student MacKenzie Lueck charged with abusing another woman he met on dating app | Gephardt Daily
The charges are one count of aggravated kidnapping, a first-degree felony; and three counts of forcible sexual abuse, a second-degree felony.

 

[margarita25]

No mention of any restraints that I've seen.

Suspect accused in murder of U of U student MacKenzie Lueck charged with abusing another woman he met on dating app | Gephardt Daily
[...]

The probable cause statement says the woman then attempted to stop Ajayi and get away, but he got on top of her and pinned her down on the couch, against her will.

Ajayi then placed his hand on her thigh, and began grinding against her, pressing his male organ between her legs, over her clothing, the statement says.

Ajayi pulled the woman’s shirt up and her bra down, the woman told police. He grabbed the woman’s left breast, and began biting, she said. The woman said she was bitten three times on the nipple and breast, which caused her significant pain and left bruising and bite marks, she said.

[...]

Ugggh. I could have gone my whole life without reading that. Poor woman.

Frickin monster.

 

[PixieStix]

BBM

She tried to leave and he pinned her down and sexually abused her. MOO

But essentially that would be the scenario of almost every sexual assault/sexual abuse/rape with a few exceptions. Why doesn't every sexual abuse charge then come with a kidnapping charge? Perhaps it's a Utah law thing?