Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #19 *ARREST*

[janewall]

I’m all confused on the difference between SA and Rape. Is this specific to the type of sexual act(s) forced? Grabbing some coffee.

ETA: Meaning I thought (and think) rape is rape even if penetration doesn’t necessarily occur.

IANAL, but my impression is that SA covers a wide and varying scope of nonconsensual sexual activity, which can include rape depending on jurisdiction, whereas in some jurisdictions in the US and elsewhere, rape charges are limited specifically to incidents involving penetration.

 

[margarita25]

No mention of any restraints that I've seen.

Suspect accused in murder of U of U student MacKenzie Lueck charged with abusing another woman he met on dating app | Gephardt Daily
[...]

The probable cause statement says the woman then attempted to stop Ajayi and get away, but he got on top of her and pinned her down on the couch, against her will.

Ajayi then placed his hand on her thigh, and began grinding against her, pressing his male organ between her legs, over her clothing, the statement says.

Ajayi pulled the woman’s shirt up and her bra down, the woman told police. He grabbed the woman’s left breast, and began biting, she said. The woman said she was bitten three times on the nipple and breast, which caused her significant pain and left bruising and bite marks, she said.

[...]

So I’m wondering if he just “let her go” after that? I mean obviously she’s alive. So if she didn’t “escape” so to speak, and he did in fact “release” her after the abuse, then perhaps @MsBetsy is right, that perhaps Makenzie’s murder really was progressed behavior on his part.

—-

ETA: @PommyMommy , do you happen to have a link in that magical vault of yours to his biographical timeline? I’d like to take a look at something re: his personal historical data. Tia. I think I recall you had a post about everything we know about him and when, thanks.

 

[janewall]

But essentially that would be the scenario of almost every sexual assault/sexual abuse/rape with a few exceptions. Why doesn't every sexual abuse charge then come with a kidnapping charge? Perhaps it's a Utah law thing?

If the crimes occur in the victim's home and s/he is not removed to another location, it probably can't be considered a kidnapping case. With any other location, the charge of kidnapping would seem self-evident in almost any case of assault, sexual or otherwise, in that the victim is restrained or constrained in some way from fleeing to safety, and I wonder why more jurisdictions don't include it when laying charges.

 

[Mspionage]

So I’m wondering if he just “let her go” after that? I mean obviously she’s alive. So if she didn’t “escape” so to speak, and he did in fact “release” her after the abuse, then perhaps @MsBetsy is right, that perhaps Makenzie’s murder really was progressed behavior on his part.

—-

ETA: @PommyMommy , do you happen to have a link in that magical vault of yours to his biographical timeline? I’d like to take a look at something re: his personal historical data. Tia. I think I recall you had a post about everything we know about him and when, thanks.

Speculation: He was in the process of living out his fantasy and she was one of the early ones he was pushing the boundary on.

Speculation: If that is true and she was one of the first to physically deal with it then there is a lot of time in between that and KL where he would have been active.

 

[margarita25]

Speculation: He was in the process of living out his fantasy and she was one of the early ones he was pushing the boundary on.

Speculation: If that is true and she was one of the first to physically deal with it then there is a lot of time in between that and KL where he would have been active.

Re: your last sentence, exactly. That’s what I’m wondering about, that specific time period. That’s one of things I wanted to look at re: his timeline. He lived in those other apartments iirc?

 

[PixieStix]

I am sharing this for any who are also curious about Utah's law in regards to kidnapping.

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter5/76-5-S302.html

Also the biting... yikes I just read the post @PommyMommy posted with the details of the sexual abuse. That is very violent and aggressive. As others have stated, it is a bit of TB's MO. I always thought that when TB was doing what he was doing the violent acts themselves were not enough for him, which led to the biting. It's sexual and violent and horrific. It's extreme behaviour, perhaps AA is a sexual sadist, and part of his arousal is inflicting that sort of jarring terrible pain on another.

 

[Mspionage]

Re: your last sentence, exactly. That’s what I’m wondering about, that specific time period. That’s one of things I wanted to look at re: his timeline. He lived in those other apartments iirc?

Individuals with such fantasies do not just randomly stop and especially so if they are not being reported and told to stop so it would have progressed until he worked out exactly how he would lure in victims, perform what he needed and also protect himself from potential roadblocks/law enforcement. Children and women in the escort/similar business would have been the easiest target for him. Well, better stated, the women in those groups would have been so the children would have had to force him to procure them somehow.

Speculation: I personally believe one (possibly two) of the connected modeling agencies & the local "resistance" group would have given him direct access to many girls/kids who were in bad situations which he could have exploited during that time period. However, I still believe (especially when it comes to the kids) that he was not alone in doing what he did. CP issues never consist of only one person.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Yes, that does put it in a bit of a different light, I agree. I remember the first remark but not the second. It is a bit odd, the wording. I think of my 30 somethings as "kids" yet but the "little girl" remark is not one I would use.

I do still wonder though for instance if now that we know he had CP on his computer if she and others would have been questioned if they were aware of his engaging in such a thing, etc. once LE found it... She did have children and they were married...

Jmo.

But, they never lived together is what she claims, thank goodness. Agree its strange she would consider a 23 year old a "little girl" unless she was totally mistaken about her age.

 

[margarita25]

Individuals with such fantasies do not just randomly stop and especially so if they are not being reported and told to stop so it would have progressed until he worked out exactly how he would lure in victims, perform what he needed and also protect himself from potential roadblocks/law enforcement. Children and women in the escort/similar business would have been the easiest target for him. Well, better stated, the women in those groups would have been so the children would have had to force him to procure them somehow.

Speculation: I personally believe one (possibly two) of the connected modeling agencies & the local "resistance" group would have given him direct access to many girls/kids who were in bad situations which he could have exploited during that time period. However, I still believe (especially when it comes to the kids) that he was not alone in doing what he did. CP issues never consist of only one person.

I really like this line of thinking.

Any reports of “models” or ones involved in prostitution found murdered in SLC during this period? Likely we would have heard about it/found that by now? Maybe not. Also if the women were in the sex business, they may have been less likely to report the assault.

We do know that SKs can have “cooling off periods”. At this time we only know of one killing, though we know of at least 2 other SAs previously.

His DNA is now in the database (right?)

 

[diggndeeperstill]

But, they never lived together is what she claims, thank goodness. Agree its strange she would consider a 23 year old a "little girl" unless she was totally mistaken about her age.

Personally I think this “little girl” is meant to be more of a demeaning comment. I think she is just trying to show superiority. Or, she may use this term so often it just rolls off her tongue.

 

[kgreg2529]

Ugggh. I could have gone my whole life without reading that. Poor woman.

Frickin monster.

Oh, I know. I felt the same way. He’s so disgusting.

 

[margarita25]

No mention of any restraints that I've seen.

Suspect accused in murder of U of U student MacKenzie Lueck charged with abusing another woman he met on dating app | Gephardt Daily
[...]

The probable cause statement says the woman then attempted to stop Ajayi and get away, but he got on top of her and pinned her down on the couch, against her will.

Ajayi then placed his hand on her thigh, and began grinding against her, pressing his male organ between her legs, over her clothing, the statement says.

Ajayi pulled the woman’s shirt up and her bra down, the woman told police. He grabbed the woman’s left breast, and began biting, she said. The woman said she was bitten three times on the nipple and breast, which caused her significant pain and left bruising and bite marks, she said.

[...]

Sounds like rape to me. It’s all “_____”, forgot the word, similar to “jargon”. (ETA: “po-TAY-to, “po-TAW-to”, that kind of thing...)

ETA: I believe the word I was thinking of is “semantics”, but clearly there is a legal differentiation. Rape, abuse, assault, same thing though when it really all comes down to it, moo. These I guess are like “synonyms”, not mutually exclusive. Whatever the case maybe @gitana1 can shed some light.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I really like this line of thinking.

Any reports of “models” or ones involved in prostitution found murdered in SLC during this period? Likely we would have heard about it/found that by now? Maybe not. Also if the women were in the sex business, they may have been less likely to report the assault.

We do know that SKs can have “cooling off periods”. At this time we only know of one killing, though we know of at least 2 other SAs previously.

His DNA is now in the database (right?)

I hope anyone in his past, especially those with kids, are taking note of this news and questioning if something happened.

Early on wasn’t there a report of someone saying she/he and their family frequently hung out with AA?

 

[margarita25]

There might not be DNA. In many rape cases for instance, it is a “she said, he said.”

That can lead to charges being dropped, or an acquittal when charges are filed.

Also, this was sexual abuse, and not rape.

There is little chance of DNA evidence.

I hear ya...

I just wonder about this after the fact business over a year later strictly from a legal stand point (of course I believe her a thousand percent, I’m just saying), from a prosecutor’s standpoint can someone go to the cops over a year later and with zero proof (say there’s no proof here) and then the cops/DA still file charges? And if the answer is no, that they would need sooooomething to proceed, would AA’s now known history account for some sort of special circumstance in this regard?

ETA, Qmfr, I apologize this post should have said “IMO” or be phrased as a question. Seems I was suuuure one would have to have soooomethhing. Again OF COURSE I believe this victim, just curious...

I haven’t studied the latest charges closely yet—-for this to have occurred back in 2018, they would have to have definitive “proof” to proceed with these charges.

I’m wondering if she had a rape kit done back then and they got a conclusive match, otherwise it would be here-say, right?

(Ugh how embarrassing, I meant “hearsay”)

 

[MsBetsy]

I hope anyone in his past, especially those with kids, are taking note of this news and questioning if something happened.

Early on wasn’t there a report of someone saying she/he and their family frequently hung out with AA?

I'm not sure about that but I wouldn't be surprised if there were many others.
So far we know of four victims altogether, including Kenzie; the one we read about in news articles, the one who shared her story with us, and now this one. Unless one of them is the same person. (if that makes sense.) Imo

 

[janewall]

I hear ya...

I just wonder about this after the fact business over a year later strictly from a legal stand point (of course I believe her a thousand percent, I’m just saying), from a prosecutor’s standpoint can someone go to the cops over a years later and with zero proof (say there’s no proof here) and then the cops/DA still file charges? And if the answer is no, that they would need sooooomething to proceed, would AA’s now known history account for some sort of special circumstance in this regard?

If she gave the police specific details that have not been released to the public about AA or his MO, it seems that would be sufficient circumstantial evidence to lay charges. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I hear ya...

I just wonder about this after the fact business over a year later strictly from a legal stand point (of course I believe her a thousand percent, I’m just saying), from a prosecutor’s standpoint can someone go to the cops over a years later and with zero proof (say there’s no proof here) and then the cops/DA still file charges? And if the answer is no, that they would need sooooomething to proceed, would AA’s now known history account for some sort of special circumstance in this regard?

ETA, Qmfr, I apologize this post should have said “IMO” or be phrased as a question. Seems I was suuuure one would have to have soooomethhing. Again OF COURSE I believe this victim, just curious...

(Ugh how embarrassing, I meant “hearsay”)

It's still within the statute of limitations if it was reported a year later, I think.

As far as evidence, she may have been able to accurately describe certain physical features, such as a birthmark, scars, or other characteristics. Or something that he did that is similar to his actions during the other assaults.

In the Golden State Killer case, all of the women described his 'private part' as being significantly small. (except for one woman who said it was average and about the same as her husbands) They all described his voice being high pitched, and his frequent, "I'll be gone in the dark" comment, and many other things common in each case.

So maybe there were things about him that she knew that only LE knows.
Or maybe they asked him about it and he admitted to it. Maybe they do have physical evidence, we just don't know. Imo

 

[margarita25]

It's still within the statute of limitations if it was reported a year later, I think.

As far as evidence, she may have been able to accurately describe certain physical features, such as a birthmark, scars, or other characteristics. Or something that he did that is similar to his actions during the other assaults.

In the Golden State Killer case, all of the women described his 'private part' as being significantly small. (except for one woman who said it was average and about the same as her husbands) They all described his voice being high pitched, and his frequent, "I'll be gone in the dark" comment, and many other things common in each case.

So maybe there were things about him that she knew that only LE knows.
Or maybe they asked him about it and he admitted to it. Maybe they do have physical evidence, we just don't know. Imo

Great response, thanks.

ETA: @MsBetsy , @MassGuy , @janewall , so the answer then is yes they would have to have sooooooome sort of corroborative evidence in order to move forward with charges...I think, moo.

 

[justme11]

I haven’t studied the latest charges closely yet—-for this to have occurred back in 2018, they would have to have definitive “proof” to proceed with these charges.

I’m wondering if she had a rape kit done back then and they got a conclusive match, otherwise it would be here-say, right?

I didn't see anyone respond to this and I'm curious too. What evidence do they have? Did the gal possibly go to the police and decide not to press charges? Does LE keep records of assaults?

ETA: Does LE keep records of assaults even if the individual choses not to press charges?

 

[PommyMommy]

So I’m wondering if he just “let her go” after that? I mean obviously she’s alive. So if she didn’t “escape” so to speak, and he did in fact “release” her after the abuse, then perhaps @MsBetsy is right, that perhaps Makenzie’s murder really was progressed behavior on his part.

—-

ETA: @PommyMommy , do you happen to have a link in that magical vault of yours to his biographical timeline? I’d like to take a look at something re: his personal historical data. Tia. I think I recall you had a post about everything we know about him and when, thanks.

I haven't updated it in a while but he bought his house - exact date unknown but probably Jan-Feb - prior to March, 2018. He was working as a contract employee at Goldman Sachs in the IT dept. and his Army buddy was living downstairs in the Airbnb from Jan – Jul 2018.

The abuse of this woman occured in March, 2018, so I'm wondering if his Army pal could've interrupted them/witnessed something? They must have something for the DA to say they feel comfortable about the latest charges. MOO