UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #4

[DomCasual]

A couple things:

Regarding the miles he put on the car - I don't think that's necessarily all that big a deal. When I get in a new car, or rent a car that's more sporty than my truck, I tend to put a lot of miles on it at first. And driving, to me, is very therapeutic. When I have a lot on my mind, driving is like a mental enema (sorry, but that's sort of what it feels like). We go to Denver several times a year, and my wife would much rather fly than drive. I like to spend the eight hours in the car, just winding down. I don't think that necessarily rules out him going to the place he put her; but I could see him just driving up and down the Wasatch Front - from Payson (South) to Ogden (North), it's about 100 miles. That's probably what I would do if I needed time to think.

Second, the Great Salt Lake seems as if it would be about the worst place to dump a body. For one thing, it's got more salt than any body of water on earth, other than the Dead Sea. The salt content makes things much more buoyant - I would think a body would have to be really weighted down to stay under. Plus, it's a very shallow lake - it's sort of a big pond. I think it's deepest point is something like 40 feet.

The thing that makes the most sense to me, considering the area, is a deserted mine shaft. They are all over - there are literally thousands of them here. If he had done some exploring on his camping expeditions, and he had been planning something for awhile, I would think he would have been able to find a place that would be an almost perfect hiding place.

 

[SuziQ]

I thought all of the new rental cars had a gps. I wonder why this one didn't? Or did it and he somehow disabled it?

Just curious,
fran

I'm pretty sure they do. They have so many thefts that they needed to add them to get their cars back. There is also liability for hit and runs etc. There are alot of reasons for gps on rentals. I think when LE states there is no GPS info, they might be telling a fib. I hope so anyways!!!

 

[kiki the parrot]

The reason I posted the article re "frostbitten" or "windburned" hands is because it makes clear that it is only after second trip that this is noticed by a neighbor (TP).

That would seem to make it just as plausible that the chaffing or chapped hands came from from digging out, ie moving and possibly reburying a body. Which would have increased the exposure--had it been a spur of the moment (woops forgot a shovel gotta use w/e I've got) thing. But surely he would've gone prepared on his return trip(?)

If it were just "windburn," his face would've been windburned as well... which it didn't appear to be tho it's hard to tell because it's still cold, and faces are always exposed.

arrot:

 

[CarolynV]

I, of course wonder if he went back to where he left Susan's body- to make sure it was not visible (from the top of a cliff, or something), or to make sure it was still covered, and that animals had not gotten to it.

But, I also wonder the opposite- that Josh may have thought that the rental car did have GPS on it, or that he was being followed, so he drove around aimlessly, just to throw off the cops. Driving around for hours just to confuse the authorities, seems like something he would do, in my opinion.

I don't even want to say it, but what if she was only unconscious when he left her, and he returned home to police and had to go back out to make sure she would not be finding her way home, or to safety?

 

[crocus]

I think, if he is responsible for Susan's demise, that the guilt and horror at what he's done will literally eat away at him.

Lord, help those children. What a sad, sad situation for those two little boys!

 

[SuziQ]

I think he put her in the woods somewhere....

Unless he went way down south, she couldn't be far off the road anywhere. Step two feet off the road and you could be walking in several feet of snow. A sled would help though.

 

[SuziQ]

Ok here is a couple of the forests around the area, I have chose mainly the national ones because they are maintained and usally have good roads going everywhere making it easy for someone in a van to travel. These are linking directly up to the road maps for each area linked:

The Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest :

http://fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsint...YSUBJECT&ttype=main&pname=Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest- Maps & Publications

Ashley National Forest:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/ashley/maps/http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/ashley/maps/

Actually most of the Uintas and Ashley close their roads after labor day. Those areas are only opened for a few months in the summer time. Some of Ashley is open to people who have cabins. But you better have a hummer with chains or something.

 

[Taminator]

JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????

This woman has been on show after show since the beginning. Never have I heard her mention any spill on the floor prior to today. I'm not buying it being just some little spill that Josh was so eager and wonderful to clean up. I've spilled stuff on my carpet before. A glass full of water...kids spilling milk, soda, whatnot. Never have I had to use 2 fans to dry it. Or a carpet cleaner. Usually a spill requires a couple towels to sop it up, a little bit of cleaner, and then a dry folded towel to soak up the rest of the moisture. She has some sort of angle going on here. I don't think she has even known either of them long enough to have any kind of say about anything. Her credibility just went down a couple more notches, IMO. Ugg:banghead:hhhhhh.

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Why would his hands be nearly frostbitten? Because he'd had them in water or spent a considerable time in the cold without gloves. Why would he do that in the middle of the night? He must have encountered hard earth when digging a hole deep enough to bury her. You don't get frostbite from throwing someone off a bridge.

This takes me back to the "Blue Cap Interview" and something I've been wondering for awhile. Does anyone know if Josh is left or right-handed?

During that interview he was tugging at his hat with his left hand. Even when he pulled down the right side of the cap (it looked awkward to me), he went over with his left hand. Think that would be very strange for someone who is right-handed. Unless they didn't want that hand on camera.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Maybe he didn't have his wedding ring on.

 

[STEADFAST]

The reason I posted the article re "frostbitten" or "windburned" hands is because it makes clear that it is only after second trip that this is noticed by a neighbor (TP).

That would seem to make it just as plausible that the chaffing or chapped hands came from from digging out, ie moving and possibly reburying a body. Which would have increased the exposure--had it been a spur of the moment (woops forgot a shovel gotta use w/e I've got) thing. But surely he would've gone prepared on his return trip(?)

If it were just "windburn," his face would've been windburned as well... which it didn't appear to be tho it's hard to tell because it's still cold, and faces are always exposed.

arrot:

Another thought -- 1st degree burns from being too close to a fire would look similar to windburn.

 

[Melanie]

Josh must love to drive and have plenty of gas money!

After watching the JVM clip - this is just so weird. This is the first I've heard that Josh spilled something on the kitchen floor and cleaned it up. Is this a different mess than the one in the living room (with the fans). What a clumsy little buggar.

Anyway, to get to your point. Josh is saying he's going to lose his home. So why didn't he go to work on Monday? Oh yah, he forgot what day it was. Then he has money for gas, and money to pay for the extra miles. I wonder who funded that trip.

That Jiovanna charachter is really something. No emotion whatsover. How old do you think she is?

So many twists and turns

Mel

 

[Melanie]

Another thought -- 1st degree burns from being too close to a fire would look similar to windburn.

ACK - mind spinning. Are you thinking he burned her up? Then he takes the rental car back to the site to make sure he gets rid of the bones/ashes??

Mel

 

[smart blonde]

I had the most horrific thought... HE BURNED HER BODY.

This would explain:

* His 'camping trip'. What is the one thing every night-time camping trip needs? A campfire.

* What would you need to make S'mores, like he claimed they made? A campfire.

* His 'frost bitten' hands, or 'wind-burned' hands, or 'chemical-burned' hands?
Probably just burned hands, period. Put your hands too close to a campfire, they become singed. Especially when you have to keep stoking the fire.

* This would also explain the lengthy amount of time he and 'his boys' (who I'm sure slept through the night in the minivan) spent 'camping'. I've read it takes several hours to burn a body beyond recognition.

* It has bothered me, his seeming lack of concern (imo) that her body will be found, and this could explain why. There may not be a body anymore. Just bits of charred bone fragments, in a campfire pit somewhere.

* This could be why their 4 year old thinks they went camping- they actually did. I wonder if the little boy remembers a camp fire burning all night, and most of the morning?

* Many of us believe there is a little bit of truth in every lie a sociopath tells... why did he say he took the boys camping? Because in a way, he did. Why bring up S'mores? To explain the campfire.

Now, I'm wondering about the generator, too. Would the generator run a power-saw? A dismembered body would be easier to handle, and also burn a bit more quickly...

I also wonder if he may have smelled of campfire smoke (or thought he did) when he got back from his camping trip? Maybe he said that about the S'mores to give a reasonable explaination as to why he smelled like smoke. But, then again, what is a camping trip at night without a campfire?

(It's the middle of the nigfht, I'm alone at work, and now I'm scared).

 

[angeleleven]

I think Jovanna is trying to help Josh out. She doesn't appear to have passion or concerns for Susan like a real friend would. Maybe Susan sensed that Jovanna had a thing for Josh and that is why she did not confide in her. Jovanna is not a person I'd want to be close to. Her personality is a little 'odd'. She does love the camera and attention. Maybe she is not use to all this attention. This is her moment to shine for Josh. Is Jovanna married? JMO

 

[angeleleven]

smartblonde.....your post makes a lot of sense and I truly hope that is not the case. But most likely there was a campfire to convince the boys that went camping. This is all it takes in a kid's mind.....a fire and a night away with daddy.

 

[smart blonde]

This takes me back to the "Blue Cap Interview" and something I've been wondering for awhile. Does anyone know if Josh is left or right-handed?

During that interview he was tugging at his hat with his left hand. Even when he pulled down the right side of the cap (it looked awkward to me), he went over with his left hand. Think that would be very strange for someone who is right-handed. Unless they didn't want that hand on camera.

Another thought -- 1st degree burns from being too close to a fire would look similar to windburn.

ACK - mind spinning. Are you thinking he burned her up? Then he takes the rental car back to the site to make sure he gets rid of the bones/ashes??

Mel

Of course, now that I've posted 'my' theory, and read through all the posts before it in an effort to catch up, I see these posts!

(Great minds think alike, and all that)...

I seriously think this is what happened. He burned her body on his 'camping trip'.

Surely, law enforcement has thought of this, right?

 

[nervous_nellie]

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Burning-Evidence/18$33683


If a murderer is meticulous and smashes the pieces of bone that do not burn, then there will be little chance of developing information about how the victim died. However, most murders are impulsive, and after one or two attempts to burn the body, the perpetrator will probably give up and simply bury the remains. In this case, the forensic anthropologist, upon examining the remains, may be able to determine certain things about what happened to the victim before the fire.


the link is to some info on the burning of bodies. it seems that a simple wood fire would only reach 800c -900c as opposed to an incinerator at 1100c - 1500c. he probably couldnt have burned her up unless he had some way to create the heat that would be required...but like you mentioned, maybe he used the generator for a cutting tool, so if the pieces were small enough maybe the heat wouldnt need to be as high?

 

[smart blonde]

I don't know. The thought of him burning her is making me nauseous.
I just want her to be found. Soon.

 

[nervous_nellie]

I don't know. The thought of him burning her is making me nauseous.
I just want her to be found. Soon.

yeah, it is pretty bad...