UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #5

[crocus]

The astute Amanda said:
"But people still search for them."

Bingo! That is the human link. For all the families who suffer the unbelievable pain of a missing loved one, they need the assuage of no stone unturned, no matter where it takes them. IMO

 

[diphi]

Know what I find interesting? Is that we have heard no reports of anyone having seen him before coming home that day. Where on earth could he have been? Everyone knows the van he was driving. Even in other cases where there is a vehicle of interest, you get reports of possible sightings of said vehicle. Even if they are false, you hear of the sightings. In this case? Nada. Does anyone else find that odd? How could no one have spotted him driving around that day? Was he even driving around or parked somewhere just sitting there? Or did he take refuge at someone's house?

Good point, Fresca. I wonder if he actually had the foresight to grab some food from the house (you know, for s'mores and stuff) so they could eat in the van instead of in a restaurant.

I've driven through Utah and some of it is pretty desolate. I guess it's possible that he wouldn't have been seen, depending on where he went. But, surely, he needed gas or something somewhere along the way. Whose house would he have gone to?

 

[Doctorwoof]

Put yourself in Josh’s shoes. Where would you dump a body? There is no doubt in my mind that he told the boys they were going camping when he roused them out of bed. The 4 year old certainly would ask where they were going and Josh had to tell him something. That doesn’t mean he went to a campground. In fact I think it’s unlikely that he did. Wherever he went it had to be someplace he was familiar with. You wouldn’t be exploring unfamiliar roads at those hours in a snow storm. You couldn’t risk having contact with anyone. It doesn’t seem likely that you would risk driving a long distance in those weather conditions either.

I’ve read speculation that he used a sled to drag the body a great distance from the van. What did he do with the boys while he was doing this? Did he leave them asleep in the van while he walked out of the area? This seems unlikely to me. He didn’t have the type of vehicle that could travel too far off the beaten path in those conditions. How could he risk someone coming across a van with two young children left alone in it? A narcissist like Josh is actually over protective of their children especially sons. He wouldn’t have left them alone at night while spent considerable time dragging and then burying Susan’s body someplace.

A much more likely scenario is that he went to a place he knew of on a rural mountain road. Someplace he could stop for just a few minutes and dump her body off the edge of a steep ravine. Probably someplace where people have already done a lot of illegal dumping. On the mountain roads around here there are always dirt turnouts or wide shoulders where people will stop to stretch their legs or admire the view. When you look over the edge you will see where people have dumped everything from refrigerators to household garbage. Some of these places are so steep that you can’t just hike down and look around. If a body were wrapped in a blanket or taped up in cardboard box and dumped in a spot like this no one would give it a second look even if it was visible from the roadway above.

 

[Curious Me]

There is one critical question I keep trying to answer. Did Josh plan on killing Susan that night or was it an act of rage? If he planned to kill her why did he choose that night? It certainly wasn’t because he had airtight alibi arranged. If he didn’t plan on killing her then that would eliminate a lot of the speculation about poisoning her. The answer to this question will go a long way in figuring out what happened that night.

The way the events played out it would seem very unlikely that he had a plan in place to kill her. He had no credible alibi set up. No one, not even Josh, could be stupid enough to think that the story he gave police would deflect suspicion away from them. Looking at it this way it seems obvious that he didn’t have a plan in place and most likely killed Susan during an argument.

It is possible that he did have a plan and something went wrong. He might have chosen that night because he knew the snow would cover his tracks. While disposing of Susan’s body he got stuck in the snow. Not being able to call for a tow, for obvious reasons, he spent several hours digging himself out. When he was unable to get home before their friends and family got concerned his plan fell apart.

What do you think did he have a plan or not?

BBM, I keep wondering that too. As a plan, it seems too loosely put together. I agree, leaving out the drugging suspcion, I have an easier time believing it was an unexpected rage fight that occurred, then Josh had to scrabble and he couldn't come up with a better story. He could have said Susan felt too tired to make the trip with Josh and his boys to see his Dad, or something more logical.

Many people feel she may be found closer to home. Trying to see this from another angle with the incomplete info we do have means trying to disregard or explain the rental car, his hands in bad condition, etc.,

I don't know, and Susan's still on my mind, but now Josh is off to a new life. And I know many of you on here feel as I do. We learned to love Susan and want to find her. It is a comfort to have so many bright, interested people on here that do care.

Earlier I was laughing when someone brought up maybe he used a shop vac, and within minutes several people posted the exact shop vac they owned right in a pic of Josh moving!

 

[SuziQ]

The only one I can remember is Daniel van Dam (SP?) A group of volunteers literally stumbled upon her remains. They had no specific place to search so they literally started looking around all over.

This was a bit different though because the discovery did not happen on a day of a big public search.

If I remember correctly that is.

IIRC, that search was based on the tow truck driver that helped pull the motorhome out?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That shop vac bothers me. Why wouldn't the police take all the vacuums if they thought a spot had been cleaned up.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Doctorwoof, that is the only way I don't think searchers would do any good.

Those steep hills and cliffs and that is a really good thought. Easy, fast, no risk to the boys.

I am beyond irritated about this case and the friends and family, it gets to me. It really does. I hate to think that this will be one of those unsolved cases. The cops are in no hurry to search anything. The family sits at computers hoping Susan will pop up in front of them by magic and oops it's a troll using her name! Irritating, irritating, irritating.

At this rate she will be eaten by cougars or whatever critters there are in Utah and no sign of her will ever be found and Josh wins. Please, oh please let me be wrong.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

That shop vac bothers me. Why wouldn't the police take all the vacuums if they thought a spot had been cleaned up.

How about plain and simple ding, dong, duh?

 

[Bartleby]

Kiki, I snipped the parts I can anwer - I hope you don't mind.

You ask fair questions. And I don't know what is being discussed in Susan's ward. But I don't get the sense that anything is being done for Josh at Susan's expense. Look at the Elizabeth Smart thing. There were huge searches for her after she turned up missing. The same thing happened with Lori Hacking. But in both those cases, people at least had an idea as to where they should begin a search.

In both of those situations, the person responsible for the crimes turned out to be LDS men (or, in the Smart case, an ex-LDS man). Those men didn't "get off easy" for their crimes. And neither man is currently an LDS member (both have been excommunicated). In both those cases, the community mourned for the victims (and celebrated when Elizabeth Smart was found safe).

From a philosophical standpoint, people of all religions should strive to be like Christ. Christ rebuked when someone was in need of rebuke; but he served everyone, regardless of who they were. He even showed kindness to those who murdered him "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do). I'm not suggesting that any Mormon is like that. But that is the model to which we should aspire.

BBM I doubt many people of non-Christian religions would agree.

 

[eyes4crime]

Put yourself in Josh’s shoes. Where would you dump a body? There is no doubt in my mind that he told the boys they were going camping when he roused them out of bed. The 4 year old certainly would ask where they were going and Josh had to tell him something. That doesn’t mean he went to a campground. In fact I think it’s unlikely that he did. Wherever he went it had to be someplace he was familiar with. You wouldn’t be exploring unfamiliar roads at those hours in a snow storm. You couldn’t risk having contact with anyone. It doesn’t seem likely that you would risk driving a long distance in those weather conditions either.

I’ve read speculation that he used a sled to drag the body a great distance from the van. What did he do with the boys while he was doing this? Did he leave them asleep in the van while he walked out of the area? This seems unlikely to me. He didn’t have the type of vehicle that could travel too far off the beaten path in those conditions. How could he risk someone coming across a van with two young children left alone in it? A narcissist like Josh is actually over protective of their children especially sons. He wouldn’t have left them alone at night while spent considerable time dragging and then burying Susan’s body someplace.

A much more likely scenario is that he went to a place he knew of on a rural mountain road. Someplace he could stop for just a few minutes and dump her body off the edge of a steep ravine. Probably someplace where people have already done a lot of illegal dumping. On the mountain roads around here there are always dirt turnouts or wide shoulders where people will stop to stretch their legs or admire the view. When you look over the edge you will see where people have dumped everything from refrigerators to household garbage. Some of these places are so steep that you can’t just hike down and look around. If a body were wrapped in a blanket or taped up in cardboard box and dumped in a spot like this no one would give it a second look even if it was visible from the roadway above.

I agree completely - as much as I'd like to think narcissist Josh put Susan someplace 'special', I do believe he dumped her in a convenient spot where her body would blend in with the other dumps. I hope the garbage dumps were checked.

 

[crocus]

That shop vac bothers me. Why wouldn't the police take all the vacuums if they thought a spot had been cleaned up.

Maybe they took a sample and we just don't know about it?

:waitasec:

 

[AlexisFresca]

That shop vac bothers me. Why wouldn't the police take all the vacuums if they thought a spot had been cleaned up.

The only excuse I can think of to not include the shop vac would be if they saw it in the garage and it had a coating of dust on it, perhaps in addition buried under some other stuff and didn't look disturbed recently?

I have to admit, I have wondered what goes on in searches and how they determinbe what is evidence and what isn't. Some items are obvious but others that aren't, how do they decipher what to take? ANyone?

 

[Bartleby]

Doctorwoof, that is the only way I don't think searchers would do any good.

Those steep hills and cliffs and that is a really good thought. Easy, fast, no risk to the boys.

I am beyond irritated about this case and the friends and family, it gets to me. It really does. I hate to think that this will be one of those unsolved cases. The cops are in no hurry to search anything. The family sits at computers hoping Susan will pop up in front of them by magic and oops it's a troll using her name! Irritating, irritating, irritating.

At this rate she will be eaten by cougars or whatever critters there are in Utah and no sign of her will ever be found and Josh wins. Please, oh please let me be wrong.

Was it not you who posted this earlier today?:

Amanda Reckonwith: ( 6 hours ago) Prayers for the safety of the 40 searchers out there today. God willing, may Susan be found.

 

[SuziQ]

The astute Amanda said:
"But people still search for them."

Bingo! That is the human link. For all the families who suffer the unbelievable pain of a missing loved one, they need the assuage of no stone unturned, no matter where it takes them. IMO

Unless I missed it, Susan's family isn't calling for the ground searches either. Her own father doesn't have his boots on the ground so to speak. There is nothing stopping them from searching. We see it all the time, family and friends searching when LE won't. That tells me he knows more than we do. As a parent myself, that is the only explanation that I can come up with for no family backed ground searches. We can diss Susan's friends all we want for not searching, what is her family doing on the ground to find her? They must have a good reason.

 

[crocus]

Doctorwoof, that is the only way I don't think searchers would do any good.

Those steep hills and cliffs and that is a really good thought. Easy, fast, no risk to the boys.

I am beyond irritated about this case and the friends and family, it gets to me. It really does. I hate to think that this will be one of those unsolved cases. The cops are in no hurry to search anything. The family sits at computers hoping Susan will pop up in front of them by magic and oops it's a troll using her name! Irritating, irritating, irritating.

At this rate she will be eaten by cougars or whatever critters there are in Utah and no sign of her will ever be found and Josh wins. Please, oh please let me be wrong.

Sigh* I don't get the media blitz, but that's just me.

I guess we can only hope that there will be good forensic evidence from somewhere in that house or with cell phone records/pings.

 

[diphi]

That shop vac bothers me. Why wouldn't the police take all the vacuums if they thought a spot had been cleaned up.

Maybe they didn't need to. Maybe they found the wet carpet cleaner right next to the wet spot... In fact, maybe they found virtually everything they need except a body and a concrete link to Josh. Maybe that's why it doesn't seem like anyone is doing too much to solve the case. Could be they really need him to confess to someone, anyone.

What if LE knows where she is but the location is totally unaccessable right now - what would they do?

 

[nomad]

The interview again, from 4:00-4:25
What the HEck is he talkin about here??

"I haven't told them anything..they overheard stuff..but I haven't...(inaudible)...By the time it all started, I...I was already...Iuuhhh.....ya know.. was already late, n......went to bed....n....it's just been hectic ever since.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8[/ame]

 

[Doctorwoof]

There are few possibilities with the rental car. The most obvious is that Josh went back to the dump site to finish disposing of the body. My gut feeling is that he didn’t do this. It would be taking a huge risk. If he were spotted in the area where her body is ultimately found he would be done. Since the police were processing his van he had to have some fear he might be followed.

Another possibility is that he went to familiarize himself with an area that he could later claim to LE was where he went camping. He could leave some type of evidence around to back up his camping story.

One thing I wonder about is how he got to the airport to rent the car? I’ve read that after LE was finished with his van he asked his neighbor for a ride to the police station to pick it up. There hasn’t been any mention of who took him to the airport. If he didn’t have a problem asking his neighbor for a ride to get his van then why not ask him for a ride to rent a car? If he was trying to rent it without anyone knowing then that is incriminating. He would know that eventually LE would find out he rented a car but he didn’t want them to know until after he had the use of it.

 

[crocus]

??

What was?

I was quoting a post that seems to have poofed.

 

[Bartleby]

Know what I find interesting? Is that we have heard no reports of anyone having seen him before coming home that day. Where on earth could he have been? Everyone knows the van he was driving. Even in other cases where there is a vehicle of interest, you get reports of possible sightings of said vehicle. Even if they are false, you hear of the sightings. In this case? Nada. Does anyone else find that odd? How could no one have spotted him driving around that day? Was he even driving around or parked somewhere just sitting there? Or did he take refuge at someone's house?

One of the early news reports also said he didn't answer his phone when people were calling him throughout 7th December, until 2 hours before he arrived home.

Will LE be able to trace where he was when he took that call? And as you say, how come nobody saw him, the kids and the van even in those 2 hours, especially if as he said he was driving around WVC.