UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6

[grayjay]

I don't think he was actually camping, but there's a good chance he found a much more private place to take SP than anywhere near the interstate where stopping can draw attention.

 

[Breathe]

Was he scouting out a location from 5:30-8:30pm? There's no way a 2 and 4 yr old could be outside for three hours.

 

[gwenabob]

Was he scouting out a location from 5:30-8:30pm? There's no way a 2 and 4 yr old could be outside for three hours.

That is my theory. Probably took them sledding for 5 minutes. The rest of the time was driving around looking for a dump spot and talking to daddy dearest on the phone.

 

[Gin]

They blocked me, too. For about 20 seconds.

Here's what his page says now:



It's really annoying I guess, these people who care about Susan. Why don't they just help Josh move, and then drop the whole thing?

"Pests", huh? Seems like that's a rather bizarre term for who are deeply concerned and care about Susan. What's that quote from Maya Angelou? Something about "when people show you who they are, believe them."

 

[Curious Me]

I guess MP can't even fake concern.

Hear it? That is a Duck!

 

[azwriter]

Can't wait to hear your detective friend's thoughts.

The only reason that I can think of to rent the car at one of the airports rather than the closer Enterprise, and Hertz is price. It has been my experience that airports offer about 25-30% lower pricing.

Interesting about your opinion on lower prices at airports on car rental. It's the complete opposite in the Phoenix area. It's close to $100 to $150 a week more when you land and rent at Sky Harbor Airport. It's cheaper to take a cab into a surrounding city, rent a car and save.
The extra costs at airport come from special taxes passed along to travelers visiting the area.
Or perhaps IMO, Josh went out of his way to rent a car where he would not be seen. jmo

 

[Curious Me]

Let's hope LE did find clues and are close to finding Susan soon. It's probably a long shot, but the sites below are about crime soil analysis.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+forensic+utility+of+soil-a014538654

"When soil samples and related items are forwarded to the FBI Laboratory, qualified examiners conduct a forensic soil examination. This examination compares two or more specimens to determine if the soil can be linked by demonstrating a common origin............................This, in turn, can provide crucial forensic evidence to associate--or disassociate--suspects with particular crime scenes."


Also:

http://www.crimeandclues.com/index....ce/64-analysis-and-collection-of-soil-samples


"Soil is considered trace evidence. Soil is made up of disintegrated surface material which can be organic, mineral or synthetic. The ratio of the mineral content compared to other matter in the soil can be very site specific. The ratios of mineral, organic and synthetic matter can vary even with in a few feet (Chayko & Gulliver, 1999). Sandy soils look, feel and behave quite differently from clay soils or peaty soils. By profiling an array of characteristics of each soil, it is somtimes possible to attribute those characteristics to a specific location (Steck, 2004). Soil samples when properly taken can tell an investigator a lot about where a victim or suspect has been. Analysis of soil samples taken from vehicles can also tell an investigator about where a vehicle has been. Analysis of foot wear, clothing and tires can also place a suspect or victim in a particular location."

 

[harleysnana]

I have a couple of questions about the rental car issue. All the news reports say he rented a car at Salt Lake Airport. There are two airports, Salt Lake International Airport and Salt Lake Municipal Airport. Neither one would be the closest car rental to his house. The Municipal airport is very close to his sister’s house. One article stated that after returning the car he went Peterson’s house to get a ride to the police station to pick up his van. The international is closer to where he lived. There is an Enterprise and Hertz just 2+ miles from his house. Both are much closer than either airport.

If you live in that area which airport would be referred to as “Salt Lake Airport “?

Do you know who watched the kids while he had the rental car?

Was there ever any mention of how he got to the airport to rent the car?
I’ve seen speculation about this but what I’m after is a definitive answer.

Sorry in advance to the rehash police. I’ve been talking to a friend who is a police detective (in my city. He is not involved in this case at all) and he had some interesting comments and questions. (I’ll post his take on this latter)

I've never heard of Salt Lake Municipal Airport.
It is probably a really small one.

The Salt Lake International Airport is our main airport and IMO the one he went to.
I believe it is also in the same direction as the Pony Express Trials.

I think the neighbor Mr. Peterson took him to rent the car.

 

[Breathe]

Do you think LE took a carpet sample on December 7th? Or did they wait until the warrant on the 9th? They were in the house for two hours on the 9th and three hours on the 18th. I wonder how many times he cleaned 'the spot' in those first two days?

Didn't Mr. Peterson, the neighbor, say that Josh was bragging about his new cell phone and clothes? Josh told them that LE took his clothes, their quilt, his cell phone and a carpet cleaner. Did LE take ALL of his clothes or just what they remember seeing him in on Monday when he got home? What about the shoes on his feet, did they take them?

If Josh had two days to cover his tracks until the search warrant was served, how well could he have cleaned things? He's a clean freak. I'm wondering how much DNA was left on his clothes after he got done and how much DNA was left in his shoe treads. How well can a carpet cleaner be sterilized inside? I'm guessing that the van will provide a lot of details.

(Curious Me - LOVE the two websites you've provided. Tons of good information. I need to get to bed but it's too interesting to quit reading. Thanks for the link!)

 

[poco]

His whole story is so full of BS--- I could think of better alibi's without even trying.

 

[impatientredhead]

Do you think LE took a carpet sample on December 7th? Or did they wait until the warrant on the 9th? They were in the house for two hours on the 9th and three hours on the 18th. I wonder how many times he cleaned 'the spot' in those first two days?

Didn't Mr. Peterson, the neighbor, say that Josh was bragging about his new cell phone and clothes? Josh told them that LE took his clothes, their quilt, his cell phone and a carpet cleaner. Did LE take ALL of his clothes or just what they remember seeing him in on Monday when he got home? What about the shoes on his feet, did they take them?

If Josh had two days to cover his tracks until the search warrant was served, how well could he have cleaned things? He's a clean freak. I'm wondering how much DNA was left on his clothes after he got done and how much DNA was left in his shoe treads. How well can a carpet cleaner be sterilized inside? I'm guessing that the van will provide a lot of details.

(Curious Me - LOVE the two websites you've provided. Tons of good information. I need to get to bed but it's too interesting to quit reading. Thanks for the link!)

I doubt they would have taken anything from the home before the search warrant, it would mess up the evidence chain and be easily challenged in court.

If what he is cleaning is a large blood stain he won't get it out. Luminol will show it no matter what he does short of removing the carpet and possibly the subfloors.

 

[Gin]

I doubt they would have taken anything from the home before the search warrant, it would mess up the evidence chain and be easily challenged in court.

If what he is cleaning is a large blood stain he won't get it out. Luminol will show it no matter what he does short of removing the carpet and possibly the subfloors.

Exactly. Cleaning a stain out of a carpet isn't simple if it's especially wet (gone down through the pad to the subfloor), or smelly, or heavily pigmented. That's why there are specialist cleaners for disaster recovery. Your average rental carpet "cleaner" isn't the kind of equipment one needs for this kind of cleaning.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Let's hope LE did find clues and are close to finding Susan soon. It's probably a long shot, but the sites below are about crime soil analysis.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+forensic+utility+of+soil-a014538654

"When soil samples and related items are forwarded to the FBI Laboratory, qualified examiners conduct a forensic soil examination. This examination compares two or more specimens to determine if the soil can be linked by demonstrating a common origin............................This, in turn, can provide crucial forensic evidence to associate--or disassociate--suspects with particular crime scenes."


Also:

http://www.crimeandclues.com/index....ce/64-analysis-and-collection-of-soil-samples


"Soil is considered trace evidence. Soil is made up of disintegrated surface material which can be organic, mineral or synthetic. The ratio of the mineral content compared to other matter in the soil can be very site specific. The ratios of mineral, organic and synthetic matter can vary even with in a few feet (Chayko & Gulliver, 1999). Sandy soils look, feel and behave quite differently from clay soils or peaty soils. By profiling an array of characteristics of each soil, it is somtimes possible to attribute those characteristics to a specific location (Steck, 2004). Soil samples when properly taken can tell an investigator a lot about where a victim or suspect has been. Analysis of soil samples taken from vehicles can also tell an investigator about where a vehicle has been. Analysis of foot wear, clothing and tires can also place a suspect or victim in a particular location."

Thanks friend. I've no doubt that--when a sufficient sample can be properly collected--soil samples can yield a goldmine of info! I guess the question in my mind is whether, in weather conditions such as the snowstorm that night, this would be possible since snow creates a barrier which would seem to interfere w transference of soil kwim? I've searched internet and yet to find anything specific to any weather conditions or their effect on the ability to acquire samples--only info re processing once sufficient samples have been obtained. JMO

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

I doubt they would have taken anything from the home before the search warrant, it would mess up the evidence chain and be easily challenged in court.

If what he is cleaning is a large blood stain he won't get it out. Luminol will show it no matter what he does short of removing the carpet and possibly the subfloors.

IMO this could likely have been vomit and maybe where Susan expired. I initially understood window of the "sledding" trip was from 8:30-11:30pm but now realizing this outing began at the same time Jovanna left the Powell's home about 5:30 pm--when JP and boys also left--I am rethinking this timeline.

Instead of Susan being left to die (after having ingested something, eg) some time after 8:30 and JP returning at 11:30 then having only until 12:30 to clean up, pack up and head off on second "camping" outing... this means rather there would have been four full hours, after he returned from "sledding" w boys (between 8:30, and 12:30) in which Susan could have made her plans known, and for JP's murder plan to have been put into action. (Or alternately, a more confrontational rage and resulting death tho it's my feeling Joshy is too passive and sneaky.) This creates a later, larger window of opportunity--based upon revised earlier "sledding" timeframe--assuming Susan was alive and well when they returned.

This would also mean that 8:30 pm was the first opportunity JP really had to be alone w Susan--ie w/out company, given Susan was accompanied home from church, tho the boys were of course still present in their home. Despite Jovanna's glowing reports of Josh's attentiveness toward Susan, we know couples who are in conflict will refrain while a guest is there--and somebody who is abusive seldom "comes out of the bag" while there are witnesses. He could have either still been unaware that Susan intended to call it quits eg (or had he already made the decision to eliminate his wife, could have simply been going to great lengths to conceal his true intentions).

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

No doubt a large duffel, and equipment, could have easily been loaded into their van under the pretense of telling the boys they were going "camping." No question in my mind either that the generator served a purpose.

A generator could have supplied the power for an ice auger which could have been used to bore a hole through the ice and a weighted body put beneath the layer of ice... just thinking about it gives me shivers and icy chills. From what research I've now done on ice fishing etc it seems auger would be a superefficient, relatively inexpensive way to accomplish this. They can be rented or perhaps he owned one as they're available sometimes from landscape supplies. Maybe an earth auger/post hole auger would serve? Any auger can be connected to source of power such as a generator, and frankly I was shocked at how portable, affordable ($300+) and efficient these are and as I said, he may have had something already in his shed.

Drilling thru thick ice (thicker than 12") requires heavy energy load thus the need for generator. In demos below, the man cuts thru this extremely thick ice in under five minutes. Yes, ice fishing requires only a small (8-10") hole, smaller than would be required, eg to permit a (weighted) body to be lowered down into the water. But I also learned that, depending upon amperage draw off generator, you can drill 40 (8" or 10") holes eg w three gallons of gas

Check out these and other beginner ice fishing mini-videos... notice in demo at no time in any demo does the guy wear gloves--so as to not lose his grip regardless of what tool he is using. And when he explains how these holes must be "skimmed" (to remove snow or ice which falls into and fills the hole you create) I wondered if maybe Joshy didn't have a skimmer--so his hands became frostbitten attempting to do this task by hand?

I've now learned everything I ever wanted to know about cutting thru ice. It's giving me the willies to be honest. He could easily have disposed of (returned?) an auger before returning home once called and alerted by LE. Did SP perhaps bring one to their meeting spot? (While I firmly believe landscaping familiarity w earth auger/posthole digger is all that would have been necessary, I am nevertheless curious whether perhaps anyone in the family ever had ice fished eg.) I find it interesting that generator itself was never disposed of--too cheap? Too cocky? Does this surprise us? Had to explain noise boys overheard? Unlike power augers, these generators can be spendy! Maybe he thought w/out auger, no one would be the wiser re generator--and thought his "testing" excuse would enable him to keep it. I mean a wife is one thing, but sure hate to throw away a nice generator

Just tossing some ideas out here. Is anyone else getting a really bad feeling about this? JMO


http://www.ehow.com/video_4954991_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-power.html?pid=1&cp=1

http://www.ehow.com/video_4954989_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-hand.htmlhttp://www.strikemaster.com/power.html

arrot:

 

[Curious Me]

Good Morning Websleuthers. Is there any news in this case?

Glad some of you enjoyed the crime soil analysis sites. We need to have hope that some clues are going to lead us to Susan.

I wonder the same thing as you.

Does LE start taking the shoes off your feet immediately upon starting an investigation of a suspicious missing person case where you're the POI? Did they take the kids shoes too? Does anyone know how and when they secured the house? I believe Josh didn't have any chance to clean further after LE was involved. I hope not! The wet spot testing results should be finished soon. Don't lose faith and please keep praying for Susan.

 

[Curious Me]

No doubt a large duffel, and equipment, could have easily been loaded into their van under the pretense of telling the boys they were going "camping." No question in my mind either that the generator served a purpose.

A generator could have supplied the power for an ice auger which could have been used to bore a hole through the ice and a weighted body put beneath the layer of ice... just thinking about it gives me shivers and icy chills. From what research I've now done on ice fishing etc it seems an auger would be a very inexpensive way to accomplish this. They can be rented or perhaps he owned one as they're available sometimes from landscape supplies. Maybe an earth auger/post hole auger would serve? Any auger can be connected to source of power such as a generator, and frankly I was shocked at how portable, affordable ($300+) and efficient these are and as I said, he may have had something already in his shed.

Drilling thru thick ice (thicker than 12") requires heavy energy load thus the need for generator. He cuts thru this extremely thick ice in under five minutes. Yes, ice fishing requires only a small (8-10") hole than would be required to permit one to lower a (weighted) body. But I also learned that, depending upon amperage draw off generator, you can drill 40 (8" or 10") holes eg w three gallons of gas

Check out these and other beginner ice fishing mini-videos... notice in demo at no time in any demo does the guy wear gloves--so as to not lose his grip. Regardless of what tool And when he explains how these holes must be "skimmed" (to remove snow or ice which falls into and fills the hole you create). Maybe Joshy didn't have a skimmer and so his hands became frostbitten attempting to do this task by hand?

I've now learned everything I ever wanted to know about cutting thru ice. It's giving me the willies to be honest. He could easily have disposed of (returned?) the auger before returning home once called and alerted by LE. Did SP perhaps bring one to their meeting spot? (While I firmly believe landscaping familiarity w earth auger/posthole digger is all that would have been necessary , I am nevertheless curious whether perhaps anone in the family ever had ice fished eg.) I find it interesting that generator itself was never disposed of--too cheap? Too cocky? Does this surprise us? Had to explain noise boys overheard? Unlike power augers, these generators can be spendy! Maybe he thought w/out auger, no one would be the wiser re generator--and thought his "testing" excuse would enable him to keep it. I mean a wife is one thing, but sure hate to throw away a nice generator

Just tossing some ideas out here. Is anyone else getting a really bad feeling about this? JMO


http://www.ehow.com/video_4954991_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-power.html?pid=1&cp=1

http://www.ehow.com/video_4954989_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-hand.htmlhttp://www.strikemaster.com/power.html

arrot:

Really good post, kiki. Thank You for the sites to check out. You're fantastic.:blowkiss:

My theory on the "Theories - what do you think happened" thread involves cutting a hole in an icey lake. It's a pretty wild thought perhaps, but that generator was used for something.:talker:

 

[DomCasual]

No doubt a large duffel, and equipment, could have easily been loaded into their van under the pretense of telling the boys they were going "camping." No question in my mind either that the generator served a purpose.

A generator could have supplied the power for an ice auger which could have been used to bore a hole through the ice and a weighted body put beneath the layer of ice... just thinking about it gives me shivers and icy chills. From what research I've now done on ice fishing etc it seems auger would be a superefficient, relatively inexpensive way to accomplish this. They can be rented or perhaps he owned one as they're available sometimes from landscape supplies. Maybe an earth auger/post hole auger would serve? Any auger can be connected to source of power such as a generator, and frankly I was shocked at how portable, affordable ($300+) and efficient these are and as I said, he may have had something already in his shed.

Drilling thru thick ice (thicker than 12") requires heavy energy load thus the need for generator. In demos below, the man cuts thru this extremely thick ice in under five minutes. Yes, ice fishing requires only a small (8-10") hole, smaller than would be required, eg to permit a (weighted) body to be lowered down into the water. But I also learned that, depending upon amperage draw off generator, you can drill 40 (8" or 10") holes eg w three gallons of gas

Check out these and other beginner ice fishing mini-videos... notice in demo at no time in any demo does the guy wear gloves--so as to not lose his grip regardless of what tool he is using. And when he explains how these holes must be "skimmed" (to remove snow or ice which falls into and fills the hole you create) I wondered if maybe Joshy didn't have a skimmer--so his hands became frostbitten attempting to do this task by hand?

I've now learned everything I ever wanted to know about cutting thru ice. It's giving me the willies to be honest. He could easily have disposed of (returned?) an auger before returning home once called and alerted by LE. Did SP perhaps bring one to their meeting spot? (While I firmly believe landscaping familiarity w earth auger/posthole digger is all that would have been necessary, I am nevertheless curious whether perhaps anyone in the family ever had ice fished eg.) I find it interesting that generator itself was never disposed of--too cheap? Too cocky? Does this surprise us? Had to explain noise boys overheard? Unlike power augers, these generators can be spendy! Maybe he thought w/out auger, no one would be the wiser re generator--and thought his "testing" excuse would enable him to keep it. I mean a wife is one thing, but sure hate to throw away a nice generator

Just tossing some ideas out here. Is anyone else getting a really bad feeling about this? JMO


http://www.ehow.com/video_4954991_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-power.html?pid=1&cp=1

http://www.ehow.com/video_4954989_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-hand.htmlhttp://www.strikemaster.com/power.html

arrot:

(See bolded) I think this is much more likely. I have always been under the impression that this was not something he had planned. I could be totally wrong, obviously - but it just seems that if he planned it, he sucks at planning. There's no way anyone with half a brain could plan something as stupid as this.

I wonder if he fishes. He could have had an auger just sitting around, for ice fishing.

After he took care of the unpleasantries, they could have gone ahead and done the S'mores. :curses:

 

[Dal Gal]

IMO this could likely have been vomit and maybe where Susan expired. I initially understood window of the "sledding" trip was from 8:30-11:30pm but now realizing this outing began at the same time Jovanna left the Powell's home about 5:30 pm--when JP and boys also left--I am rethinking this timeline.

Instead of Susan being left to die (after having ingested something, eg) some time after 8:30 and JP returning at 11:30 then having only until 12:30 to clean up, pack up and head off on second "camping" outing... this means rather there would have been four full hours, after he returned from "sledding" w boys (between 8:30, and 12:30) in which Susan could have made her plans known, and for JP's murder plan to have been put into action. (Or alternately, a more confrontational rage and resulting death tho it's my feeling Joshy is too passive and sneaky.) This creates a later, larger window of opportunity--based upon revised earlier "sledding" timeframe--assuming Susan was alive and well when they returned.

This would also mean that 8:30 pm was the first opportunity JP really had to be alone w Susan--ie w/out company, given Susan was accompanied home from church, tho the boys were of course still present in their home. Despite Jovanna's glowing reports of Josh's attentiveness toward Susan, we know couples who are in conflict will refrain while a guest is there--and somebody who is abusive seldom "comes out of the bag" while there are witnesses. He could have either still been unaware that Susan intended to call it quits eg (or had he already made the decision to eliminate his wife, could have simply been going to great lengths to conceal his true intentions).

arrot:

BBM

I think it's important to consider that once they came home from "sledding", Susan was probably a bit peeved at Josh for being gone for 3 hours with the boys in the cold snow on a school night. But IMO her first actions would be to get the boys out of their wet clothes and ready for bed. Once she has them warmly tucked into their beds, Susan had some time to stew on her anger and lets Josh have it. Whatever happened to Susan that night, I'm sure we would have heard by now if the boys witnessed it -- so they had to have been in bed.

I'm wishing for the 1000th time that we had a layout of their home!

 

[Curious Me]

Something that I'm struggling with - do I think Josh used a drug to make Susan sleepy or to actually kill her with the drug? It would matter in the choice of drug he used.