VA- 6-YEAR-OLD is in custody after shooting teacher

[Stunned]

The problem I have seen is that children are becoming more violent, younger. And the schools are getting more of these kids. Much of this is due to more children survive after being exposed to drugs, prenatally, family and social upheavals, parents working more, leaving young kids alone, with siblings, or poor child care.

Now, the plan is when a child acts out, the teacher is supposed to empty the classroom to keep the other children safe, and try to de-escalate to defuse the situation. It creates disorganization for the other students, and doesn't really solve the problem.

That about covers it.
Except I will not blame working parents. They have to work.
Poor Childcare? Let’s get some true educators, if they are not all ready there and teaching, and pay them accordingly. Respect would also be nice.
The rest is pretty much on point.

 

[YepperBepper]

That about covers it.
Except I will not blame working parents. They have to work.
Poor Childcare? Let’s get some true educators, if they are not all ready there and teaching, and pay them accordingly. Respect would also be nice.
The rest is pretty much on point.

I don't recall this level of problem with the "latchkey" generation. Imho

 

[Stunned]

I don't recall this level of problem with the "latchkey" generation. Imho

I don’t remember this level of SM.

 

[shotgun09]

The problem I have seen is that children are becoming more violent, younger. And the schools are getting more of these kids. Much of this is due to more children survive after being exposed to drugs, prenatally, family and social upheavals, parents working more, leaving young kids alone, with siblings, or poor child care.

Now, the plan is when a child acts out, the teacher is supposed to empty the classroom to keep the other children safe, and try to de-escalate to defuse the situation. It creates disorganization for the other students, and doesn't really solve the problem.

Well, IMO that plan is extremely bass ackwards!! Remove the disruptive child from the classroom, and let the remaining students continue learning. SMH.

 

[YepperBepper]

That about covers it.
Except I will not blame working parents. They have to work.
Poor Childcare? Let’s get some true educators, if they are not all ready there and teaching, and pay them accordingly. Respect would also be nice.
The rest is pretty much on point.

I don't recall this level of problem with the "latchkey" generation. Imho

I don’t remember this level of SM.

Apologies. SM?

 

[mickey2942]

Well, IMO that plan is extremely bass ackwards!! Remove the disruptive child from the classroom, and let the remaining students continue learning. SMH.

Have you ever tried to remove a child who is acting out? They kick, scream, bite, and that is if they don't have any weapons like a pen, pencil, or scissors. I am certified to hold a child, and I am not small, but it is difficult. I have been head butted.

We are not talking about a normal kid, having a melt down. Think feral, no reasoning, reactive attachment disorder.

 

[georgiajean]

The problem I have seen is that children are becoming more violent, younger. And the schools are getting more of these kids. Much of this is due to more children survive after being exposed to drugs, prenatally, family and social upheavals, parents working more, leaving young kids alone, with siblings, or poor child care.

Now, the plan is when a child acts out, the teacher is supposed to empty the classroom to keep the other children safe, and try to de-escalate to defuse the situation. It creates disorganization for the other students, and doesn't really solve the problem.

As a teacher, I have had to "room clear" many times. With students who weaponize their environment, it is safer to quickly evacuate all other students. Yes, it is disruptive. It takes 45 minutes for cortisol levels to recover after being a part of a room clear, for students and staff. The instruction is to get to an alternate setting and "continued instruction." This is really unfair and really unproductive. And many teachers do not talk to their students about what just happened. I talked to my students, every time. The first time it happened, when a student started throwing scissors, I sat them down afterwards and explained that a classmate had lost control, and my first priority is always to keep them safe, so I brought them to a safe place, and when it was safe to go back, we went back. I answered their questions, an then they wanted to get back to learning.

That one child is allowed to completely derail a whole class's learning, sometimes multiple times a day, is unconscionable. Typically, it is until enough data is gathered to change student placement, create in IEP, etc. But often these disruptive, out of control students impact a class for a year before changes can occur. Others are in SPED, and mainstreamed, and it just is what it is. The best case scenario is for them to have a 1-1 adult with them to support.

I hate that students are being taught to just accept rage and acting out from others as "normal."

 

[shotgun09]

Have you ever tried to remove a child who is acting out? They kick, scream, bite, and that is if they don't have any weapons like a pen, pencil, or scissors. I am certified to hold a child, and I am not small, but it is difficult. I have been head butted.

We are not talking about a normal kid, having a melt down. Think feral, no reasoning, reactive attachment disorder.

I get what you are saying, I just am bewildered with the fact that the rest of the students, who do follow rules, who do respect authority, and who want to learn are thrown out to the wherever lands, while the student who shouldn't even be in a school classroom ( IMO ) gets coddled and given a sucker. It's wasting time, it's non-productive, and confusing for the remaining children. It's reinforcing bad behavior in my eyes. No wonder we have a problem. MOO

 

[Stunned]

I don't recall this level of problem with the "latchkey" generation. Imho

Apologies. SM?

Social Media

 

[YepperBepper]

As a teacher, I have had to "room clear" many times. With students who weaponize their environment, it is safer to quickly evacuate all other students. Yes, it is disruptive. It takes 45 minutes for cortisol levels to recover after being a part of a room clear, for students and staff. The instruction is to get to an alternate setting and "continued instruction." This is really unfair and really unproductive. And many teachers do not talk to their students about what just happened. I talked to my students, every time. The first time it happened, when a student started throwing scissors, I sat them down afterwards and explained that a classmate had lost control, and my first priority is always to keep them safe, so I brought them to a safe place, and when it was safe to go back, we went back. I answered their questions, an then they wanted to get back to learning.

That one child is allowed to completely derail a whole class's learning, sometimes multiple times a day, is unconscionable. Typically, it is until enough data is gathered to change student placement, create in IEP, etc. But often these disruptive, out of control students impact a class for a year before changes can occur. Others are in SPED, and mainstreamed, and it just is what it is. The best case scenario is for them to have a 1-1 adult with them to support.

I hate that students are being taught to just accept rage and acting out from others as "normal."

I can't like your post more than once. I wish I could.

Thank you for your professional insight. I've been a part of several room clearings in relationship to adults. It IS disruptive, especially in an environment where everyone has special needs. In the adult world, however, there are tiered placement options...so it makes it easier to find a situation elsewhere for the safety of both the behavioral adult and the others who are vulnerable.

But as you pointed out and as I said before...we are exposing young children to extreme violent situations. We are attempting to "help" one child on the backs of all of the others. ".....good luck with that ptsd, kiddo."

I'm not seeing positive outcomes for anyone here. The behavioral child, the other children, the teacher...ugh.

 

[realanastasia]

Things that stood out to me from The Washington Post article:

The same child strangled a teacher to the point that they were unable to breathe while he was in kindergarten. The child returned for 1st grade, and just one week into the school year was placed on a half-day schedule. Somewhere along the way, this apparently morphed into a schedule where, due to an "unspecified disability," the student was "shadowed" TO and DURING classes by a parent, but the PARENTS abruptly discontinued this plan starting on January 6. (So the school and the family apparently agree to this plan in order to keep the child attending the public school, and the family commits to one parent always accompanying the child all day long, but then the parents just say they're no longer willing/able to comply, and the school just says, "Okay"?!?!)

AZ had other students in her class who were violent, including one who hit another teacher with a chair so hard that the other teacher's legs were covered in bruises (it is unclear, though, whether this violent student who's described as being in AZ's class is a DIFFERENT child from the child who shot AZ, or if it's possible that it was the same student).

The Assistant Principal was warned THREE SEPARATE TIMES (once by AZ, twice by AZ's colleagues) that very day about the student possibly having a gun and/or making threats against AZ, and just blew it off. I get the impression that the Assistant Principal, for whatever reason, disliked AZ, or thought she was being dramatic, or maybe thought that AZ was biased against this violent student, so even when AZ's concerns were reported to the Asst. Principal by AZ's colleagues and not by AZ herself (which seems to me like it may have been at AZ's request, suggesting that perhaps AZ knew the Asst. Principal didn't take seriously anything AZ had to say) the Asst. Principal still just blew them off because she knew the original source was AZ. That's absolutely unconscionable.

 

[YepperBepper]

I mentioned earlier that some states are going to essentially ban suspensions and use the restorative justice model. The Equity model. This just arrived in my email box. California will be passing their law this year. It will be state law. It will include charter schools.

Schools will have no options, Imho.

California expands ban on 'willful defiance' suspensions in schools

More California students can no longer face suspension for willful defiance

www.latimes.com

 

[mickey2942]

I mentioned earlier that some states are going to essentially ban suspensions and use the restorative justice model. The Equity model. This just arrived in my email box. California will be passing their law this year. It will be state law. It will include charter schools.

Schools will have no options, Imho.

California expands ban on 'willful defiance' suspensions in schools

More California students can no longer face suspension for willful defiance

www.latimes.com

Yeah. "Willful Defiance". I could really go off on this...but I won't derail the thread. So, basically almost anything goes. No rules.

A great part of school, as a social institution, is, in part, to teach children how to be successful at work. That means, following directions from your boss. Not unlike school, following directions from adults. "Stupid things" like, take off your hat, sit in your seat, do your work, don't interrupt others...and they don't adhere to "willful defiance" at work. You get fired.

 

[iamshadow21]

Yeah. "Willful Defiance". I could really go off on this...but I won't derail the thread. So, basically almost anything goes. No rules.

A great part of school, as a social institution, is, in part, to teach children how to be successful at work. That means, following directions from your boss. Not unlike school, following directions from adults. "Stupid things" like, take off your hat, sit in your seat, do your work, don't interrupt others...and they don't adhere to "willful defiance" at work. You get fired.

A big part of the problem with using 'wilful defiance' as a cause for punishment, though, is it gets disproportionately used against kids who aren't white, straight, neurotypical, etc. It's got a bad record of being used against those who are outsiders because of who they are, not how they're acting.

MOO

 

[Simply Southern]

...

 

[katydid23]

A big part of the problem with using 'wilful defiance' as a cause for punishment, though, is it gets disproportionately used against kids who aren't white, straight, neurotypical, etc. It's got a bad record of being used against those who are outsiders because of who they are, not how they're acting.

MOO

Just because a student may not be ' white, straight, neurotypical, etc' it does not mean that they shouldn't have to follow basic classroom rules, which are designed to make it possible for everyone to learn together in class.

I have seen many times, students and parents who think that their special attributes or circumstances should mean thAt they don't need to sit down, be quiet, listen to the teacher and follow instructions. Sometimes they say 'we can't focus or concentrate so we want to be allowed to do our own thing while the rest of the class is reading or studying or listening to the lecture. Parents will say 'let my child listen to headphones or work on their tablet' or draw while the class does something else. But then the students may begin being disruptive by standing or walking around, talking while others are studying, etc. How is that fair or beneficial to the rest of the class? Or even beneficial to the student in the long run?

It has nothing to do with race or gender etc, it has to do with learning to follow basic instructions and cooperate with others. It is not being 'used against others' if those others are acting disruptive and volatile. It is being done to protect the remaining students who are there to learn how to be successful students and future citizens.

Bottom line, If a child picks up a chair and throws it at a teacher, sorry, but they need to receive some serious help, which is more than a regular mainstream classroom can offer, IMO.

 

[Tutter]

A big part of the problem with using 'wilful defiance' as a cause for punishment, though, is it gets disproportionately used against kids who aren't white, straight, neurotypical, etc. It's got a bad record of being used against those who are outsiders because of who they are, not how they're acting.

MOO

So, how is that working out? Since this ideology has been implemented are things getting better in classrooms?

 

[amaraya]

Social Media

i don't think we can add it up to that. after teaching over ten years in nyc and now teaching high school in another country, the problem is violence. i see my current students have a lot of screen time, are obsessed with their sm but any level of violence at school is extremely rare. I have never seen a fight. there are many other factors, but at the heart of it, the violence in the school, and i could only imagine then, in the community, is the main issue.

there were mentions of other violent incidents with other students, so this is what needs to be addressed. these words and ideas don't come randomly out of a child's mind without even a minimum amount of exposure, in some sort of way.

 

[amaraya]

Well, IMO that plan is extremely bass ackwards!! Remove the disruptive child from the classroom, and let the remaining students continue learning. SMH.

to put your hands on a student, as a teacher, is very touchy territory

 

[shotgun09]

to put your hands on a student, as a teacher, is very touchy territory

as is shooting your teacher...just sayin