VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - #2 - ***READ FIRST POST***

[ChateauMarmont]

There is also a Thomas Wyld (or whyld) I saw linked to adult vacations during the time a verified poster made the post about Thomas Wild.

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes, i also noted that part about "another ship" and don't recall that we've heard that before. Need to check out more on the source "Admiralty ...", as preliminary google last nite doesn't seem to have much on them, but it was late and I might have a better brain this morning <cough>

Apologies for quoting self, but I didn't mean to imply that the American Admiralty Bureau Ltd is anything other than legit ... just wondering if they were brought in on the case by the Bradley family or Royal Caribbean. If by RC, then I might be a bit suspect about "another ship" reference. The website americanadmiraltybureau dot com is defunct (since 2005), but Wayback has the following page in 2002 re their stated purpose:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020924054656/http://americanadmiraltybureau.com/

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't think the names provided on here in links to the adult websites are real , and I feel whoever runs such a business has their real name(s) nowhere online.

ITA, and it is posing a huge problem. Even trying to track by phone # and addy's is iffy because the phone numbers are probably assigned in one location and forwarded to another location.

 

[Tabs1]

For some reason I can't edit my post , I wanted to highlight some things but was tired as heck last night.

I highlighted (what I feel) is a key statement.

Sighting on another ship??? Wow, that's a new one - anyone out there have any more info on this?


One aspect of this case which I always come back to is: HOW are some of the sightings we know about 'verified'???

The verified insider stated that the San Francisco sighting had been 'verified' - but what does this actually MEAN? Because unless someone actually got close enough to speak to the woman OR see her tattoos (all of them!) I really don't understand how this sighting was 'verified'.

Ditto with other sightings. I think the sighting several months after she vanished was credible (the one where she was seen on a beach in Curacao by David Carmichael), and probably also the one where the naval officer saw her in that hotel and she asked for help, but as for the others...again, HOW were they 'verified'??

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't think the names provided on here in links to the adult websites are real , and I feel whoever runs such a business has their real name(s) nowhere online.

I agree & I'd also like to add I don't believe they truly disbanded in the sense of what they described to their potential patrons... However, I do think its possible they've been using variations of their names.

 

[Cazzie]

Yes, i also noted that part about "another ship" and don't recall that we've heard that before. Need to check out more on the source "Admiralty ...", as preliminary google last nite doesn't seem to have much on them, but it was late and I might have a better brain this morning <cough>

If that sighting is true, that makes sense as an MO...move her to another (big) ship before getting her to her first land destination. That way, all the initial water searches and land searches would have 0% chance of success.

 

[masootz]

if we had a more rock-solid idea of the morning timeline i think the case would figure itself out. we actually have a good deal of information compared to other ws cases. we know she was seen by her father at 5:30am. we know she was out of the room by 6:00am. we know the shipped docked around 7:00am. i am convinced that at least one or two of the sightings of her in the months afterward is valid. the canadian divers seemed the most legit to me. the lady in barbados also seems pretty legitimate. i'm not certain about the san francisco sighting although FA was adamant about it. i'm also not convinced the adult site pictures are her.

what we don't know is exactly what the disembarking procedure was for that ship and whether it was followed or not. if it was the id scan that most ships used and if it was done correctly then we'd know she didn't walk off the ship by herself (don't think she did but can't leave possibilities to chance). if she didn't leave of her own accord then someone kidnapped her. since she disappeared before the ship docked it had to be someone on the ship.

even though the ship may not have been well searched i think it makes the most sense that she was quickly taken off the ship. if you didn't want her off in curacao then why not wait until you're wherever you want to take her off? why risk having to feed her and give her water for a day or two when the entire ship is on alert that she's missing? why increase the difficulty of smuggling her off once the fbi is on board? it makes no sense to kidnap her if you weren't ready to get her off the ship.

whatever happened once she's off the boat doesn't really matter as much as figuring out who took her off the boat (imo). once you know that, the rest figures itself out. we have some obvious candidates - people she spoke with, people who creeped out her parents, etc. actually it's a fairly small list - it'd really have to be people who had unencumbered access to leaving/return to the ship. that's probably just crew members although that depends on the ship's security. again, if we knew more about the docking exit/entry procedure we could say for sure. if there's no way for someone to get her off the ship via the main passenger exit then it'd have to be someone with access to the crew loading/unloading area.

it's been mentioned as a remote possibility that she could have been convinced to go along with some plan as an escape or to start a new life or whatever. that's really unlikely but ultimately it doesn't matter. someone still took her off the ship so whatever happened to her is known by that person. i think finding that answer is much more likely and much more plausible than identifying people based on later sightings, sleuthing adults sites, etc. just my 2 cents.

 

[masootz]

Sighting on another ship??? Wow, that's a new one - anyone out there have any more info on this?


One aspect of this case which I always come back to is: HOW are some of the sightings we know about 'verified'???

The verified insider stated that the San Francisco sighting had been 'verified' - but what does this actually MEAN? Because unless someone actually got close enough to speak to the woman OR see her tattoos (all of them!) I really don't understand how this sighting was 'verified'.

Ditto with other sightings. I think the sighting several months after she vanished was credible (the one where she was seen on a beach in Curacao by David Carmichael), and probably also the one where the naval officer saw her in that hotel and she asked for help, but as for the others...again, HOW were they 'verified'??

i disagree with FA's use of "verified". FA said san fran was unbelievable to the bradleys too except there were several witnesses who saw her, described her tattoos, etc. FA said the sighting in san fran was based on multiple people iding her (see thread 1, FA's posts around mid-july of this year) and that's why FA determined it was verified. at some point FA referred to some of the sightings being verified by FBI but again i think FA meant the FBI interviewed witnesses who seemed credible. at other points FA mentioned the bradleys not having contact with the FBI and not getting information from the FBI so it's hard for me to reconcile unless she (like all of us) got some things mixed up.

 

[masootz]

If that sighting is true, that makes sense as an MO...move her to another (big) ship before getting her to her first land destination. That way, all the initial water searches and land searches would have 0% chance of success.

but how on earth would you get her from one ship to another and even if you could, isn't that way more complicated than putting her in a cargo box and having someone cart her off the ship?

 

[masootz]

I agree & I'd also like to add I don't believe they truly disbanded in the sense of what they described to their potential patrons... However, I do think its possible they've been using variations of their names.

agreed. i can't think of any case where someone in "adult" movies, web sites, tv, or whatever actually uses their own name. especially considering the seedy type folks you're dealing with, it makes sense that they use aliases. when we google searched az's phone number from one of the sites it came up on several other sites with variations of the first and last name.

 

[Cazzie]

but how on earth would you get her from one ship to another and even if you could, isn't that way more complicated than putting her in a cargo box and having someone cart her off the ship?

I'm not familiar with cruise ship security procedures (been too long), but I see by your previous post that there is some form of i.d. scanning.

"Another ship" may only work as a theory if there were lax security procedures, especially on the theoretical 2nd ship. Or cargo box off, cargo box on.

 

[Dushi]

if we had a more rock-solid idea of the morning timeline i think the case would figure itself out. we actually have a good deal of information compared to other ws cases. we know she was seen by her father at 5:30am. we know she was out of the room by 6:00am. we know the shipped docked around 7:00am. i am convinced that at least one or two of the sightings of her in the months afterward is valid. the canadian divers seemed the most legit to me. the lady in barbados also seems pretty legitimate. i'm not certain about the san francisco sighting although FA was adamant about it. i'm also not convinced the adult site pictures are her.

what we don't know is exactly what the disembarking procedure was for that ship and whether it was followed or not. if it was the id scan that most ships used and if it was done correctly then we'd know she didn't walk off the ship by herself (don't think she did but can't leave possibilities to chance). if she didn't leave of her own accord then someone kidnapped her. since she disappeared before the ship docked it had to be someone on the ship. even though the ship may not have been well searched i think it makes the most sense that she was quickly taken off the ship. if you didn't want her off in curacao then why not wait until you're wherever you want to take her off? why risk having to feed her and give her water for a day or two when the entire ship is on alert that she's missing? why increase the difficulty of smuggling her off once the fbi is on board? it makes no sense to kidnap her if you weren't ready to get her off the ship.
whatever happened once she's off the boat doesn't really matter as much as figuring out who took her off the boat (imo). once you know that, the rest figures itself out. we have some obvious candidates - people she spoke with, people who creeped out her parents, etc. actually it's a fairly small list - it'd really have to be people who had unencumbered access to leaving/return to the ship. that's probably just crew members although that depends on the ship's security. again, if we knew more about the docking exit/entry procedure we could say for sure. if there's no way for someone to get her off the ship via the main passenger exit then it'd have to be someone with access to the crew loading/unloading area. it's been mentioned as a remote possibility that she could have been convinced to go along with some plan as an escape or to start a new life or whatever. that's really unlikely but ultimately it doesn't matter. someone still took her off the ship so whatever happened to her is known by that person. i think finding that answer is much more likely and much more plausible than identifying people based on later sightings, sleuthing adults sites, etc. just my 2 cents.

I would think that once a plan was in place, whoever took her would wait til they were docking in the place they wanted to remove her to
It was apparent she was with her family and they would send out an alarm the second they couldn't find her.Seems too risky to keep her hidden on board

As you mentioned, unless the ships security is nonexistant, I can not see how anyone could remove her from the ship,unless she was smuggled off as supplies were loaded

It seems that there is no way to make any of this happen without someone who was crew being involved

 

[Dushi]

I have read that people from another ship came aboard as well as a dance troupe

Is it common for cruise ships to have people other than passengers board while in port?

 

[neesaki]

Apologies for quoting self, but I didn't mean to imply that the American Admiralty Bureau Ltd is anything other than legit ... just wondering if they were brought in on the case by the Bradley family or Royal Caribbean. If by RC, then I might be a bit suspect about "another ship" reference. The website americanadmiraltybureau dot com is defunct (since 2005), but Wayback has the following page in 2002 re their stated purpose:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020924054656/http://americanadmiraltybureau.com/

I'm not finding much on this organization either, but came across this concerning W.M. Riley:

William M. Riley -Marine Surveyor - joined MAGI in 2006, after twenty years experience as a U. S. Coast Guard officer with steadily increasing responsibilities in marine inspection, quality control of marine products and repairs, accident investigation, law enforcement, port safety/security, and environmental protection, followed by thirteen years as an independent marine surveyor and maritime safety consultant. Bill graduated from the U. S. Merchant Marine Academy in 1972 with a Bachelor of Science Degree. He is certified as a Master Marine Surveyor and Accident & Fraud Investigator by the U. S. Surveyors Association. He is also a Life Member of the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, a member of the International Association of Marine Investigators, and a member of the American Society of Safety Engineers.

1998
www.maritimesecurity.org, 9 Jan 1998 [cached]
William M. Riley, LCDR, USCG, Retired Chief Forensic Examiner, American Admiralty Bureau, Ltd.
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Riley_William_246315720.aspx

http://www.maritimesecurity.org/
The Maritime Security Council (MSC) – established in 1988 – is a non-profit, member-driven organization representing ocean carriers, cruise lines, port facilities and terminals, logistics providers, importers, exporters and related maritime industries throughout the world. Our mission is to advance the security of the United States and the international maritime community by representing maritime interests before government bodies; acting as liaison between industry and government; disseminating timely information; encouraging and assisting in the development of industry-specific technologies; and convening educational and informational conferences for our membership and government partners.

Another link:
http://www.groupmagi.com/about_principal.html

 

[SoSueMe]

If you're stating you "can't go there," then why are you going there?

Further mention of the subject and statements such at this will be met with a loss of posting privileges.

 

[masootz]

if this was planned, whoever took her took a really big chance that she'd leave her room that early in the morning. she was at the disco until 4am, and had obviously been out all day with her parents (who btw were too exhausted to stay up late). instead of coming in at 4am and going to bed she goes out onto the balcony and around 6am leaves again. what if she had fallen asleep or otherwise had not been able to leave? what if her parents got up or her brother was watching tv? you made me realize there are two options - someone randomly grabbed her because she happened to be out and alone early looking for coffee or something like that(unlikely), or someone knew she was going to be out and alone early, meaning she had planned to meet her abductor. in that case they had to be really confident she'd show up. i'm sure kidnapping and smuggling someone off a ship requires some planning so they'd have to a) know she'd meet them b) have a plan to get her alone long enough to kidnap her c) have a quick way to get her off the boat. you don't want to set up with co-conspirators to have everything ready at 6am if you're not sure she'll show up. if she was planning to meet someone at 6am then why wouldn't she have mentioned it to her brother? they were together at the disco and then reportedly were on the balcony together before he went in to go to sleep. why not at least mention "hey im going to meet the band guy for coffee and to watch the sun come up". there's something fishy here....

 

[Dushi]

if this was planned, whoever took her took a really big chance that she'd leave her room that early in the morning. she was at the disco until 4am, and had obviously been out all day with her parents (who btw were too exhausted to stay up late). instead of coming in at 4am and going to bed she goes out onto the balcony and around 6am leaves again. what if she had fallen asleep or otherwise had not been able to leave? what if her parents got up or her brother was watching tv? you made me realize there are two options - someone randomly grabbed her because she happened to be out and alone early looking for coffee or something like that(unlikely), or someone knew she was going to be out and alone early, meaning she had planned to meet her abductor. in that case they had to be really confident she'd show up. i'm sure kidnapping and smuggling someone off a ship requires some planning so they'd have to a) know she'd meet them b) have a plan to get her alone long enough to kidnap her c) have a quick way to get her off the boat. you don't want to set up with co-conspirators to have everything ready at 6am if you're not sure she'll show up. if she was planning to meet someone at 6am then why wouldn't she have mentioned it to her brother? they were together at the disco and then reportedly were on the balcony together before he went in to go to sleep. why not at least mention "hey im going to meet the band guy for coffee and to watch the sun come up". there's something fishy here....[/QUOTE]

That is an excellent point along with several other excellent points in this post

 

[Tabs1]

If you're stating you "can't go there," then why are you going there?

Further mention of the subject and statements such at this will be met with a loss of posting privileges.

My apologies if this sounds dense, but who is this directed at?

 

[SoSueMe]

My apologies if this sounds dense, but who is this directed at?

My post was directed at members who keep "going there" and they know who they are, but just for clarification, the Freewinds ship and the Scientology angle is off limits. To keep bringing up the subject and then saying, oh "we can't go there" or "I'd love to talk about Scientology, but we can't," is talking about it! This is the last warning on this subject before lengthy timeouts and/or bans are issued.

Also, members please do not post as an insider with first hand information unless you have been verified.

 

[Tabs1]

It's possible that nothing untoward happened to Amy on the cruise ship.

How about this for a possible scenario:

She does indeed meet up with either Alister Douglas or another crew member for an early coffee. Wanting to impress her, and knowing she would like to either watch the ship docking OR get off the ship early, they show her how to disembark via a crew exit/cargo exit - as a 'favour' for a pretty girl they like.


Amy figures there is no harm in briefly going onto land, maybe buying a coffee on Curacao, or buying some new sandals or something. Possibly THEN on Curacao, early that morning before anyone else disembarks, something happens to her - actually on Curacao.


This might explain why the cruise line is so unhelpful - maybe they find out that one of THEIR staff members broke the rules by allowing a passenger to exit the ship too early?


If this scenario is the accurate one, then Amy was the victim of a crime/abduction of opportunity - she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. i.e. Alone on Curacao.



PROBLEM WITH THIS SCENARIO:

The one problem I see with this theory is that we then have to believe it was a huge coincidence that Amy's pics went missing aboard the ship. However, it is possible. Maybe one of the 'creepy' waiters or even Alister Douglas stole the pics because they had a 'crush' etc on Amy......?