VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - #3

[AstroKitty]

Can someone refresh my memory as to how the pic of "Amy" was found? I seem to remember hearing on Dr. Phil that it was found by a guy who browses sex websites to search for missing women that may be victims of human trafficking - is that true?

That's what I read. A man searches on websites to look for missing persons. I think this is noble and since this is back - way back - of the infancy of using the internet to promote prostitution, there wouldn't be a whole lot out there yet. Most sex trade websites didn't really launch till the early 2000's (people still searched free papers, like the village voice, the redeye and what not). So he didn't have to go through a lot of sites like we have to now. There was not craigslist nor backpage, there wasn't a TER or Ero's guide..

The photos feel very out of place but if you look at them on the website via wayback machine, you'll note a watermark on SOME images but not all. I am just guessing that the watermark is from their photographer there and the other images are the ones the models/providers brought with them OR images taken from swingers magazines that were still very popular at the time.

I haven't done it yet but I considered taking a few and doing a google image reverse search to see if any were lifted from *advertiser censored* mags, because a few look it.

Like I said though, content back then was scarce so images were frequently lifted from other sites and used to entice potential clients to visiting and the girl wouldn't be there .. but "We have Suzy who would be perfect for you!" 90% of agencies STILL do this.

NSFW but you can google "escort bait and switch" to get an idea what I mean.

I am just trying to help those that have never needed to know how this all works, get a grasp of the reality and I hope some compassion to situations. I stand firm on my human trafficking statement. It's what I do for outreach and I'm more than a little invested in it. American girls stay within the US and normally are picked out in the most demeaning and upsetting way possible (not that there is a good way)

American girls between the ages of 12-15 are at the highest risk. Most time the mother is a street level prostitute and an "uncle/cousin" abuses the child or "saves" them. The girls then feel indebt to these men and want a fatherly like approval, and since most come from sexually abused background .. .sex is different in so many ways. I see these young girls a lot in Chicago's westside (garfield park). It's beyond tragic. They get to a certain age and become a bottom "beotch" for the pimp (meaning #1 girl) and then go out to find new girls to work for the pimp, they then watch the girls on the streets... not the pimp himself and report back if they misbehave. The heroin/cocaine trade is along side it, the girls become child prostitutes and the boys become corner hustlers ... and only if they can safely get to outreach do they survive. Sadly most do not.

Any trafficked women overseas (Russian, Polish) are brought over with student visa's or work visa's. My best friend is still paying off some debt that never really existed and I don't think she'll ever escape. But my point is, no one brings an American girl to other countries - ever.

The exceptions are Guam and Guam is a big big horrible choice for young girls wanting to escape their mundane surroundings with the promise of huge money from US service men in Guam. They feel safer to visit because of the service men. Once you get there though, you are in 1 tiny apt working shifts with up to 9 other american girls and keep 40% of your earnings. You only get to leave while supervised or when your time is up (2-4 weeks).
There's still adverts for "visiting strippers". Puerto Rico not so much though.

This is my last off topic post about it but thought it might shed some light on how sex tourism works. Do American girls travel to EU to work? Totally! I have many friends who do, but they go in pairs and not affiliated with companies. Sex tourism is more open there.

 

[AstroKitty]

rsbm-

Not that I disagree, but there are a lot of other categories of sex work; e.g., seduction agents in espionage; some restaurant servers (e.g., a 'Hooters' server) and some bartenders/barmaids; go-go dancers (and their ilk); many types of models. It all depends on where you draw the line, but I'd argue where sexuality/sexual attractiveness is key, it is basically sex work.

Not disagreeing with you, but I really applaud that you understand it and include many others in this too .. sorta shakes off that negative thought that we are all bad people. It's a job with so many job types that go under the umbrella.

 

[Montjoy]

Not disagreeing with you, but I really applaud that you understand it and include many others in this too .. sorta shakes off that negative thought that we are all bad people. It's a job with so many job types that go under the umbrella.

I would take issue with anyone who thinks that they are taking the moral high ground by thinking people who use sexuality, in some way, are less moral than those who do not (e.g., not to be critical of them, but let's say accountants or farmers). I think it's ignorant for people to ignore the way in which sexuality affects many jobs.

 

[AstroKitty]

I would take issue with anyone who thinks that they are taking the moral high ground by thinking people who use sexuality, in some way, are less moral than those who do not (e.g., not to be critical of them, but let's say accountants or farmers). I think it's ignorant for people to ignore the way in which sexuality affects many jobs.

I want to hug you and again, THANK YOU SO MUCH for caring. Thank you.

Okay back on topic.

 

[Wondergirl]

That's what I read. A man searches on websites to look for missing persons. I think this is noble and since this is back - way back - of the infancy of using the internet to promote prostitution, there wouldn't be a whole lot out there yet. Most sex trade websites didn't really launch till the early 2000's (people still searched free papers, like the village voice, the redeye and what not). So he didn't have to go through a lot of sites like we have to now. There was not craigslist nor backpage, there wasn't a TER or Ero's guide..

The photos feel very out of place but if you look at them on the website via wayback machine, you'll note a watermark on SOME images but not all. I am just guessing that the watermark is from their photographer there and the other images are the ones the models/providers brought with them OR images taken from swingers magazines that were still very popular at the time.

I haven't done it yet but I considered taking a few and doing a google image reverse search to see if any were lifted from *advertiser censored* mags, because a few look it.

Snipped for brevity.

I did a reverse image search years ago - I didn't get anything.

There are few cases that get under my skin like Amy's. God, why can't someone give us something to go on? I know we could help.

What do you think happened to Amy?

 

[ktgirl]

I know I'm like the only person who thinks this but (while I hope I'm wrong and that Amy is alive), I think she either fell overboard or was abducted/killed on the ship (and a ship employee either killed her or covered it up to protect themsleves/cruise line).

 

[danzn16]

that's pretty much how the story goes. would love more info too.

edited to avoid rehashing: a year or two ago a few of us used the "way back machine" web site to find an old copy of the web site where the pictures had been hosted. i looked through the source code of the web site and found some information regarding the person who set it up. i think a few wsers tried to find the person (who likely would have had nothing to do with her going missing but who could possibly have information regarding who had the pictures before they went on the site). i don't think there was any success on that front but one or more of the wsers got a malware notification on their pc (iirc probably from the web site as it's unsurprising that a *advertiser censored* site would be sketchy). at that point the thread got (imo) a bit ridiculous - where people started saying they thought the ws thread was being watched by bad guys, they were afraid someone was going to hack their computer, etc.

again, just bringing this up so we can avoid going down the same road again. the web site where it was hosted was pretty much a dead end and even if we had contacted the creator of the site it's likely he would have just said whoever paid him to make the site gave him a bunch of pictures to put up or alternately had a log on to the site to upload pictures themselves.

BBM

I only remember the VI telling WSers the bad guys were watching this thread, hacking our computers, and possibly knowing who we are, etc.

The WSers were going where they were led to explore by the VI and I was impressed with how much they found so quickly. I'm really not sure what the heck happened after that. Hopefully we won't be spun around on our heels with mixed info this time.


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[AstroKitty]

I know I'm like the only person who thinks this but (while I hope I'm wrong and that Amy is alive), I think she either fell overboard or was abducted/killed on the ship (and a ship employee either killed her or covered it up to protect themsleves/cruise line).

you aren't alone, I believe this too. I think it's very possible she was drugged that night at the disco and in a panic, she was either thrown overboard or stuck somewhere till they could get rid of her.

 

[AstroKitty]

I did a reverse image search years ago - I didn't get anything.

There are few cases that get under my skin like Amy's. God, why can't someone give us something to go on? I know we could help.

What do you think happened to Amy?

What I have a huge problem is (and again, please don't lynch me for this) is the time line.

Her father and brother stated she fell asleep on the lil' patio outside their room. Her brother made it sound like she was still kinda tipsy and awake (did she leave when he went to bed?). Her father stated she was asleep and didn't want to bother her so he went back to bed (?) but then woke to not find her. I don't understand her fathers' version of events.

This means Yellow didn't kidnap her or have her so messed up that she was stumbling all over the ship until she fell to her death. This means she made it back to her room safe and sound at some point, coherent enough to have a conversation with her brother and didn't seem so high that it would be cause for concern but then in less than 2 hours disappeared. Correct?

*I'm going off of the interview with Natalie's mother that they did for her show*

This supports a theory that she was at least in that point in time NOT slipped something. As I said earlier, I have taken GHB legally and on my own accord. I did it because I was curious. I took a water bottle and used the cap of it, I was blacked out for 18 hours. The next morning I felt really terrible and spent most of it dehydrated, with a migraine and vomiting. If she had been drugged (and people that do that kinda thing are not considerate to put just a cap full), she would have been loopy, slurring, off balance and unable to hold her up.

If she had been slipped xanax or roffies or even chloral hydrate (aka a Mickey), she would have been dazed and confused along with passed out within an hour, unable to be awoken. None of those would make you vomit unless mixed with a lot of alcohol.

If she had been spiked with an opiate, it would have been a blackout if alcohol was mixed and vomiting with respiratory distress being the leading cause of death. *same with benzo's like xanax, roofies, and triazolam (which is a benzo but a very powerful one that feels more like a barb).

I want to know by those in the know; how much time was it between when the dad awoke at first to notice her sleeping and when he noticed she was gone

And

Was she on tape at all during that allotted time?

I'm new to this thread so please be kind. I'm asking questions to get a decent idea without derailing it into why I do not think she would be wanted for sex trafficking. If someone wants my opinion on that I'll more than happily provide it.

 

[AstroKitty]

BBM

I only remember the VI telling WSers the bad guys were watching this thread, hacking our computers, and possibly knowing who we are, etc.

The WSers were going where they were led to explore by the VI and I was impressed with how much they found so quickly. I'm really not sure what the heck happened after that. Hopefully we won't be spun around on our heels with mixed info this time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh lord. A tinhat foil issue, huh? My introduction to this thread was very disgusting last night so I'm not too shocked some other craziness happened to. Of all threads though, why this one? I think too many people watch too much tv or movies.

I have to ask though, what/who is VI?

I have only used the wayback machine maybe a handful of times and only because of a link shared on this website. I know nothing at all about it. I didn't know you could take apart the url and figure out the source and such! I mean, I know you can with modern sites but didn't think you could with sites cached.

I can look into all of this with fresh eyes and at least the inner workings/knowledge of the sex tourism group she's speculated to have been abducted to. I had a detailed journal back n' those days, back when I actually was in correspondence with the owner or madam of those Aruba sex vacation spots. I have the email addresses and phone #'s. I'm very sure neither are available at all anywhere online anymore but I know the lady I spoke to had a yahoo profile (that's how long ago) and Im sure it's on the wayback machine.

I really don't think Amy is there but it can't hurt to venture down that road just a bit.

 

[dotr]

Oh lord. A tinhat foil issue, huh? My introduction to this thread was very disgusting last night so I'm not too shocked some other craziness happened to. Of all threads though, why this one? I think too many people watch too much tv or movies.

I have to ask though, what/who is VI?

I have only used the wayback machine maybe a handful of times and only because of a link shared on this website. I know nothing at all about it. I didn't know you could take apart the url and figure out the source and such! I mean, I know you can with modern sites but didn't think you could with sites cached.

I can look into all of this with fresh eyes and at least the inner workings/knowledge of the sex tourism group she's speculated to have been abducted to. I had a detailed journal back n' those days, back when I actually was in correspondence with the owner or madam of those Aruba sex vacation spots. I have the email addresses and phone #'s. I'm very sure neither are available at all anywhere online anymore but I know the lady I spoke to had a yahoo profile (that's how long ago) and Im sure it's on the wayback machine.

I really don't think Amy is there but it can't hurt to venture down that road just a bit.

VI, is verified insider, lots of info. on this link including some good stuff poster Elpher found, scroll down near bottom of page. Thanks for a very interesting perspective on this perplexing case!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183570&page=2

 

[prd2bokie]

AstroKitty, why don't you think she would be wanted for sex trafficking? The men were obviously interested in for some reason.

 

[AstroKitty]

AstroKitty, why don't you think she would be wanted for sex trafficking? The men were obviously interested in for some reason.

I feel like I need to put a disclaimer here, so please understand that I'm not mocking Amy, being rude or demeaning to her either. She is a human being and tragically a victim in some sense of the way - whatever way that is. It is simply a view point of mine from near 20 years experience in this industry. I do not think I'm smarter than anyone else, I do not think I have more information than anyone else (more so a verified insider), I do not think I'm above anyone here.

What I have to offer is an insider's viewpoint and honest but harsh look. Do I think the FBI knows it all? No. I think they have a pretty one-sided idea and understanding, the sex workers that are "rescued" from slavery are rarely American and often treated like bait to catch the bad guys. Does the FBI know how this all happens? Yes, absolutely of course but has any FBI agent been trafficked or worked as an escort? Unlikely.

Again, this is just a person from the inside' giving you a glance inward.

THIS IS NOT ME DEGRADING OR DISMISSING AMY OR HER APPEARANCE. I feel like I have to really stress this.

With that said; there is a huge reason why I do not think she would make a target of cartel that smuggles humans for sex trafficking.

First let me list statistics *keep in mind that there's a lot of misconception out there, and several of our so called "sisters" have been liars about the # of women trafficked. Example: this woman
http://www.newsweek.com/sex-traffic...ps-down-following-newsweek-cover-story-252603

A short read:
"According to the Report, the most common form of human trafficking (79%) is sexual exploitation. The victims of sexual exploitation are predominantly women and girls. Surprisingly, in 30% of the countries which provided information on the gender of traffickers, women make up the largest proportion of traffickers. In some parts of the world, women trafficking women is the norm.
The second most common form of human trafficking is forced labour (18%), although this may be a misrepresentation because forced labour is less frequently detected and reported than trafficking for sexual exploitation.
Worldwide, almost 20% of all trafficking victims are children. However, in some parts of Africa and the Mekong region, children are the majority (up to 100% in parts of West Africa)."

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/global-report-on-trafficking-in-persons.html


Please read this very long article with incredible information and graphs:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jun/27/human-trafficking-us-state-department

From that article which shows by state,country and region the #'s.
"The major forms of human trafficking covered by the report include:

• Forced labour
• Sex trafficking
• Bonded labour - where a worker's debt is exploited. it doesn't have to be current, the report highlights South Asia where "it is estimated that there are millions of trafficking victims working to pay off their ancestors' debts"
• Forced child labour and sex trafficking
• Forced domestic servitude
• Child soldiers:"

From the FBI
*again, Im looking up generic trafficking non specific, so as you can see - the focus is on CHILDREN when speaking of within the states or international trade when it concerns servitude. It switches in all articles to adults when it's focus is Asia and Eastern Europe.

"Unfortunately, however, sex trafficking also occurs domestically.4 The United States not only faces an influx of international victims but also has its own homegrown problem of interstate sex trafficking of minors.5

Although comprehensive research to document the number of children engaged in prostitution in the United States is lacking, an estimated 293,000 American youths currently are at risk of becoming victims of commercial sexual exploitation.6 The majority of these victims are runaway or thrown-away youths who live on the streets and become victims of prostitution.7 These children generally come from homes where they have been abused or from families who have abandoned them. Often, they become involved in prostitution to support themselves financially or to get the things they feel they need or want (like drugs).

Other young people are recruited into prostitution through forced abduction, pressure from parents, or through deceptive agreements between parents and traffickers. Once these children become involved in prostitution, they often are forced to travel far from their homes and, as a result, are isolated from their friends and family. Few children in this situation can develop new relationships with peers or adults other than the person victimizing them. The lifestyle of such youths revolves around violence, forced drug use, and constant threats.8

Among children and teens living on the streets in the United States, involvement in commercial sex activity is a problem of epidemic proportion. Many girls living on the street engage in formal prostitution, and some become entangled in nationwide organized crime networks where they are trafficked nationally. Criminal networks transport these children around the United States by a variety of means—cars, buses, vans, trucks, or planes—and often provide them counterfeit identification to use in the event of arrest. The average age at which girls first become victims of prostitution is 12 to 14. It is not only the girls on the streets who are affected; boys and transgender youth enter into prostitution between the ages of 11 and 13 on average.9"

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p...ent-bulletin/march_2011/human_sex_trafficking

 

[Montjoy]

Agreed. I think that Amy would be an unlikely candidate for human/sexual trafficking on several counts. She does not fit the profile.

 

[prd2bokie]

Very informative AstroKitty. Thank you.

 

[AstroKitty]

The answer to your question (sorry, wanted to make this separate)

Why do I think Amy is unlikely a candidate for human trafficking:

The first thing everyone has failed to do is to approach this as if YOU were seeking to victimize someone and use them for X amount of time.

You are on a cruise ship with 500+ people, most are adults or young adults, with all nationalities on board. When sitting at a disco where people are mingling, letting loose and consuming alcohol, where would your eyes go when looking for someone that would be vulnerable or easy to take out of their element for your game?

You would look for a solo female
A female that appears youthful and if you are specific in wanting an American girl, you will want a blue eyed blond hair bomb shell. *more on that later
You will want someone who exhibits trust in anyone who approaches her
You will want someone who seems to be seeking affirmation they are desired
you are seeking prey.

*American women are popular in Asian sex tourism *stripping, escorting etc* if they meet the Western look: Blonde, blue eyed and buxom* Remember, it's about the product and in human trafficking the person is the product.

Having someone under the influence of drugs makes the introduction or kidnapping easy but it doesn't make selling them easy. A lot of johns want a woman who is coherent and worth the price they are paying, that's why a lot of these stories about women on heroin make zero sense. Pimps supply their girls but in a reward system. The last thing they want is someone strung out or high as a kite with a client and making a mistake with THEIR money.

A brunette doesn't fetch as much money unless she appears exotic, and they can get all the exotic women that are brunette on those islands - they want blonde normally or even a redhead.

Tattoos are a major turn off for human trafficking, because then the person is easily identifiable. It changes a bit when it comes to trafficking or exploiting minors/young women within the US. Pimps will brand their girls on the chest aka a tattoo of their name/moniker. When you are speaking about international it's far different.

Amy had short hair, wore modest clothing and is educated. She also spent most of the night with her brother. I'd venture to say she was a bit of a tomboy in appearance and with her choice in education and career direction, physically active and strong. She would be able to defend herself with her strength.

Individuals have a type, a human trafficking ring has positions and obligations to fill. They aren't looking for THEIR type that they are attracted to, they are looking for a woman or young girl which exudes co-dependent and needy. Amy by all accounts was rather independent.

ALL OF US CAN BE A SEXUAL ASULAT VICTIM. That's not what this is about, this is "Why do I think Amy wouldn't be targeted for human trafficking".

Age
Appearance (she didn't look barely legal, she had very short hair etc)
She was not alone, her brother was there - which shows that she is accounted for and would be missed. It would be alarming.
She had distinguishing marks.


These men want a barely legal blank canvas that they can mold into what THEY want to sell this person not date them. They need a person they can shove off for top dollar. The people that smuggle humans aren't the ones that keep the girls or boys, they are the hunters and they get paid a bounty. So when they are out seeking, they are looking for who will fit the bill and fetch them top dollar, giving them the ability to do this again.

Sure they can cover her tattoos, ply her with drugs, put a wig on her and do terrible makeup on her face - but for an exotic location/sex tourism vacation, I see little in the way of her earning what she was bought for right off the bat. And there you have the main agenda. Also you are talking a smart young woman who knows about life and has a sense about herself, not a small child or impressionable young girl from Idaho that wants to be a movie star.

That's my opinion based on everything I know, have seen and heard including from people I know that have been trafficked from EU to here (literally never met a person trafficked from America to abroad - ever, even at summits).

 

[Wallrider]

You would look for a solo female
A female that appears youthful and if you are specific in wanting an American girl, you will want a blue eyed blond hair bomb shell. *more on that later
You will want someone who exhibits trust in anyone who approaches her
You will want someone who seems to be seeking affirmation they are desired
you are seeking prey.

*American women are popular in Asian sex tourism *stripping, escorting etc* if they meet the Western look: Blonde, blue eyed and buxom* Remember, it's about the product and in human trafficking the person is the product.

This was my thought too. If that was the purpose they would have hunted the stereotypical cheerleader/prom queen type. No offence or disrespect to Amy as she is pretty but she’s athletic with more of a tomboy look. Therefore, if she was kidnapped for a purpose and was selected because of her traits it was likely for something other than the sex trade, especially as prostitution is legal in that part of the world and the potential fallout from taking an American would have to outweigh the perceived benefits.

With regard to the escort photos, I think they do show Amy. My take on them at the moment is that she was forced into those poses as a method of emotional and psychological control. They were going to tell everyone she was a prostitute and no-one would come to look for her.

I could go further down this rabbit hole but it risks getting into tin foil hat territory.

 

[danzn16]

Oh lord. A tinhat foil issue, huh? My introduction to this thread was very disgusting last night so I'm not too shocked some other craziness happened to. Of all threads though, why this one? I think too many people watch too much tv or movies.



I have to ask though, what/who is VI?



I have only used the wayback machine maybe a handful of times and only because of a link shared on this website. I know nothing at all about it. I didn't know you could take apart the url and figure out the source and such! I mean, I know you can with modern sites but didn't think you could with sites cached.



I can look into all of this with fresh eyes and at least the inner workings/knowledge of the sex tourism group she's speculated to have been abducted to. I had a detailed journal back n' those days, back when I actually was in correspondence with the owner or madam of those Aruba sex vacation spots. I have the email addresses and phone #'s. I'm very sure neither are available at all anywhere online anymore but I know the lady I spoke to had a yahoo profile (that's how long ago) and Im sure it's on the wayback machine.



I really don't think Amy is there but it can't hurt to venture down that road just a bit.

VI is the verified insider that was once on this thread.

And not tin foil hat theories. We were directly told this by the VI, it was not what WSers just came up with on their own. Doubt it was true though.

So I have a really hard time telling what is true or not with all the information that has been given on this thread. Some of which completely contradicts what has come from the mouths of the parents. I think the facts are so convoluted it's impossible to tell what's what now.


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[masootz]

I have only used the wayback machine maybe a handful of times and only because of a link shared on this website. I know nothing at all about it. I didn't know you could take apart the url and figure out the source and such! I mean, I know you can with modern sites but didn't think you could with sites cached.

way back scrapes sites that allow it (basically taking the html, css, and image files and storing them on their servers). it's not like a snapshot of the site, but more of a backup copy of the site from a particular point in time. that means you can view the html source just as you would any other web site. the only unhelpful part is that way back is random in when they visit sites so you only get glimpses of what was going on in a certain period of time.

unrelated - i wanted to say thanks to you and others for steering (imo) the focus of this thread towards what i consider to be something productive. we've discussed ad nauseam the idea that ab was kidnapped for the sex trade and have gotten nowhere with any of those theories. i'm not saying we'll get anywhere with other ideas but i'd like to see if some of the smart wsers can come up with ideas that fit occam's razor - the idea that if you have two theories that make the same prediction, the simpler one is the better one.

i might be in the minority but i'm simply positive that whatever happened to her is simpler than "kidnapped for the sex trade industry, then brought to the united states to smuggle guns or drugs and then kept to either have children or help the sex traders find more women".

 

[Wondergirl]

way back scrapes sites that allow it (basically taking the html, css, and image files and storing them on their servers). it's not like a snapshot of the site, but more of a backup copy of the site from a particular point in time. that means you can view the html source just as you would any other web site. the only unhelpful part is that way back is random in when they visit sites so you only get glimpses of what was going on in a certain period of time.

unrelated - i wanted to say thanks to you and others for steering (imo) the focus of this thread towards what i consider to be something productive. we've discussed ad nauseam the idea that ab was kidnapped for the sex trade and have gotten nowhere with any of those theories. i'm not saying we'll get anywhere with other ideas but i'd like to see if some of the smart wsers can come up with ideas that fit occam's razor - the idea that if you have two theories that make the same prediction, the simpler one is the better one.

i might be in the minority but i'm simply positive that whatever happened to her is simpler than "kidnapped for the sex trade industry, then brought to the united states to smuggle guns or drugs and then kept to either have children or help the sex traders find more women".

What do you think happened to Amy?

What do you suggest we sleuth?