VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - #3

[masootz]

i think the current discussion is helpful as it's always a good idea to challenge all assumptions.

the video from the dance club as well as the account from her family sets a fairly solid starting point - she appeared by all accounts to be fine until around 6:00AM. the dance club video doesn't show someone who appears to be drugged. the conversation she had with her brother doesn't indicate someone who appears to be drugged. the fact that her father saw her around 5:30ish puts 6:00AM as a good starting point for her going missing.

it'd be great to know exactly how far out the ship was at 6:00AM - we've heard "near the shore" but how near? we've heard ab was a good swimmer but how good? i'm a good swimmer but i don't know that i could swim to shore from any distance after a fall into unknown waters. we've heard that someone saw her get into the elevator with a member of the band. who was that person and do we have any first-person quotes from that person? how did they know it was her for sure?

the family indicates they raised the alarm by 7:00AM so that means in the span of an hour something had to have happened to her. why did they become so alarmed so quickly?

i'll stop here but you can see where i'm going - trying to separate what we think we know from what we know we know.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

How did she get off the boat and it wasn't docked?
Was she on video in the elevator?
Who said they had witnessed her in the elevator with "Yellow"?
How did she get past her sleeping father, slip out the door and get drugged/kidnapped in the span of 30 minutes? I know it can happen but with a physically strong woman that had a degree in physical education etc., I find this hard to believe. GHB etc take around 15 minutes to kick in, some other drugs take longer based on bioavailability and the amounts of fat in food last digested, grapefruit and of course alcohol.

For this to be plausible, Amy would had to have been subdued instantly and somehow placed where there are no cameras, no eye-witnesses to see a struggle nor anyone able to hear her. There are places to take someone on ships but we are again talking 30 minutes.

Everyone is so convinced she was abducted and put into sex trafficking, why accept that? Where is the proof beyond 2 photos that we aren't sure are her and sightings that really hold no merit.


The facts are what is posted up there regarding the 30 minutes she went from outside her room but still considered her room, with her father asleep RIGHT THERE and not drugged - to being missing completely. How did she manage that or better yet, how did others manage that without awaking her father? That's pretty damn brazen.

I know a few can't tolerate my posts, and that's fine and I truly don't have a theory - none. I am posting information about the industry everyone is so convinced she was taken into against her will and asking questions on why that's so easy to believe. I would have thought people would be open to learning about sex trafficking and sex-work since it's the theory people believe and I assume are wanting to find Amy. It appears that's not the case though, a few want to accept the non-reality of how it all works.

I would love the Navy Seal's name so I can read the book, or at least get an idea of what he says his encounter was. I've asked several times and no one has a link, I suppose it's time I sleuthed and googled.

What is your theory, if you do not mind sharing? Do you think that Amy was abducted or killed, but the story about the sex ring is not true? Do you think that she fell overboard, and her parents made up the sex ring story? Do they know she fell overboard? I think you are raising some interesting points. The only two reasons I can think for the sex ring theory is that they truly believe that is what happened, or as a way to generate interest/attention for years.

ETA: Nevermind...I see you say that you do not have a theory.

 

[masootz]

What is your theory, if you do not mind sharing? Do you think that Amy was abducted or killed, but the story about the sex ring is not true? Do you think that she fell overboard, and her parents made up the sex ring story? Do they know she fell overboard? I think you are raising some interesting points. The only two reasons I can think for the sex ring theory is that they truly believe that is what happened, or as a way to generate interest/attention for years.

ETA: Nevermind...I see you say that you do not have a theory.

i don't think the parents made up the sex ring story, i think they think that based on the evidence they've seen. i also think any family member in a situation like this is going to want to believe their loved one is still alive.

i'm having a hard time finding msm info as a LOT of links are dead. i also wish there were more direct quotes from those involved as that's the closest to any facts that we're going to get. for instance - the canadian diver who said he saw her but isn't directly quoted (as far as i can find) until three years later said the tattoos matched.

a lot of folks say well he must have really seen her since he could describe her tattoos - but that's not necessarily true. he saw two tv shows over the course of six or more months and then was able to contact authorities. he had plenty of time to see, hear, and absorb information regarding her tattoos. i'm not suggesting he's dishonest, just that the mind (and memory) works against us a lot of time. the question i'd have is - did he distinctly remember the tasmanian devil tattoo prior to seeing the tv shows or viewing the missing persons web site or, after seeing those sources, did he say "oh yeah i think she did have a tasmanian devil tattoo". if the former, then that certainly points towards some of the ws theories, if the latter then it's a red herring. :twocents:

 

[Wallrider]

Astrokitty - you are raising some really good points about this case and it's great to get a fresh perspective, especially as you are able to provide a more first hand knowledge of some elements.

Here's one bit of clarity to save you having to go back through the huge older threads. With regard to Amy leaving the cabin/suite without waking her father, a schematic of the cabin was posted on one of the previous threads and you could see the balcony led off to both the sleeping area and a lounge type area so Amy could have left the cabin without passing through the sleeping area and waking anyone.

As for Amy's mother's story of fetal positions, blood and vomiting, I put that down to a mother's hyperbole. I say that with the greatest respect as my own mother and all my friends' mothers are also capable of such exaggerations.

I am interested that you think that Amy died very soon after she disappeared and you are not convinced by eyewitness accounts reported later. We know that eyewitness accuracy degrades the longer the lapse between an event and its reporting.

However, the verified insider has been endorsed by Amy's family as being privy to more information than has been made public and this person provided a lot of interesting info, and at time tantalising hints, in the previous threads, all of which were based around Amy still being alive. So my question here is why do you think Amy's family would support the VI in expressing this certainty Amy is still alive and is held captive (but not in sex trafficking) and that the investigation is open and active if they know this not to be true.

I understand there's a lot to go through in the previous threads and you may not have had the chance but I think it's a valid question and I'd like your take on this.

 

[Kristin83]

Mods, please delete this if I am not allowed to say this, but I saw today that the VI appears to be on the Unsolved Mysteries Sitcoms Online board actively posting about Amy. I'm just so happy to see her case being actively discussed in multiple places. There was a time when it seemed dormant.

 

[trenchmouth]

I also wanted to re-post this link in case anyone newer had not seen it...this is the guy who was the one who captured Amy on video dancing with Yellow:

http://chrisfenwick.com/home/2010/3/1/amy-bradley-is-missing.html

I've seen before, creepy to watch.

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[Wallrider]

Mods, please delete this if I am not allowed to say this, but I saw today that the VI appears to be on the Unsolved Mysteries Sitcoms Online board actively posting about Amy. I'm just so happy to see her case being actively discussed in multiple places. There was a time when it seemed dormant.

Thanks for the info. I saw the VI referencing the 'romance' novel based on Amy's case. Insensitive much? Perhaps the author can demonstrate another catastrophic failure of taste and decency and find another missing girl to exploit for her next trashy novel.

 

[neesaki]

FWIW, this is what the VI posted regarding surveillance tapes of Amy.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Post by FindAmy

The Bradleys haven't received photos from other people.

The Bradleys don't have surveillance tapes. They are gone. The surveillance tapes would be more valuable than the personal photos.

There are only two videotapes, also according to the VI.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Posted by FindAmy:

There are two video tapes.

Chris Fenwick is not a Royal Caribbean employee. He was hired to create a private video for a group on the cruise. He just happened to be filming when Amy was dancing with Alister Douglas in the disco. His film became evidence that Alister was in the disco with Amy. Chris gave it to Ron's boss who gave it to the FBI. The FBI will never give the tape to a TV company and they will never even admit that they have a tape.

The other video was made in 2007 by a British production company who went to Venezuela and filmed a story about Paul Baxter's escort resort. Chavez didn't like that the resort did this. Paul Baxter is British and he called a British company.

 

[neesaki]

Astrokitty, I want to say that I owe you an apology. Regardless of whether I agree or not , and may not fully understand, my reply was rude, insensitive, and out of line. I am deeply disappointed in myself. I do admit that this case has haunted me for years and I find myself at times becoming too emotional about it, but I have no excuses.

And thank you Salem for reminding me.

 

[AstroKitty]

I spent a few days reading and watching some more up to date interviews with Amy and her family. I also took the time to read the website(s) dedicated to those who died on these cruises and received little to no information and had a hard time getting proof etc. A few stuck out to me: a young woman that the mother perceived to be an angel and wouldn't touch drugs but was found with lethal amounts of methadone in her system (causing death). There are two forms of methadone: liquid and pill. Both of these have a taste but the pills are easy to come by at ports like in Mexico. It's not hard to figure out that an 18 year old girl her friends and boyfriend stopped off and bout drugs to try and also party. With zero tolerance to methadone isn't no different in shooting up heroin and hoping you live. I see a lot of grieving and finger pointing due to so many factors. It's also likely the methadone pills were given under another name and this is long before you could look up the pill index via smart drugs on your phone.

Amy was the only one I found to disappeared (I think so at least). I really don't feel Amy is alive but when you have 2 parents who are desperate for answers and a company dismissing them, it becoming national news - bringing out the crazies will essentially bring out the con artists. I hope I'm wrong but I think they've been taken for a wild ride.

Truly anything is possible, I just believe she died on that ship:

Either vomited and fell overboard
Left and went to the disco (?) and was drugged there and it was too much, possibly thrown over via the workers areas that ARE NOT TAPPED.

I did read that falling off the boats via certain places is like hitting the water at 50 mph, you shatter everything and drown due to broken body parts and internal bleeding. Same as if you dove off the Golden Gate bridge.

 

[masootz]

I did read that falling off the boats via certain places is like hitting the water at 50 mph, you shatter everything and drown due to broken body parts and internal bleeding. Same as if you dove off the Golden Gate bridge.

many cruise ships are well over 200 ft high (just the part on top of the water). that's about 20 stories high. unless you fell off a lower deck you're unlikely to survive the impact. i couldn't find the specific height for ROTS but it's sister ship was listed at around 160 feet from water to top.

 

[AstroKitty]

Has anyone watched the Golden Gates doc (about jumpers)? I think it's a must watch but it's highly depressing, but it gives a glimpse into suicides last moments that so far no other doc has. There was 1 survivor that told his story about how he realized he was alive and couldn't move a limb, and he thought "This is it.. sharks are going to eat me while I'm paralyzed" and that in mid air he changed his mind. Eye opening to say the least.

And not to get too gory but I live near downtown and I have sadly seen my share of train jumpers *nyc 6 of em' while I lived there and 3 in Chicago* NEver once did any of those suicides make a blurb in the news. Anyway, a woman jumped off the 10th floor of a highrise downtown Chicago while I was out walking my sons to school. I heard a "No!" and then it felt like it rained and the ground shook for a second. By the time I figured out it hadn't rained because rain isn't red ... I was traumatized. She was deceased and beyond recognition at 10 stories of a fall. I don't know why she screamed no, maybe she regretted it - maybe she thought she was going to fall on my son. But since then I've always thought about jumpers in general and the damage that's done from any height. If 10 stories can do it, then I'm assuming jumping into water off a platform can do it too. It's so quick, it's not like a person jumps and you have moments, it's seconds.

You can see jumpers off the golden gate on youtube. It's 3.5 seconds till impact.

My point is, if Amy fell or was pushed .. it took seconds and if she wasn't drunk her body would would have stiffened at impact which would have broken every bone in her body, possibly causing some body parts to severe (feet severe often at impact from bridge jumps, that's why there's random feet that appear still in shoes but no body).

 

[trenchmouth]

75 feet can cause serious injury, 125 your probably dead. Again, no evidence supports the theory. Time to move on.

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[dotr]

Has anyone watched the Golden Gates doc (about jumpers)? I think it's a must watch but it's highly depressing, but it gives a glimpse into suicides last moments that so far no other doc has. There was 1 survivor that told his story about how he realized he was alive and couldn't move a limb, and he thought "This is it.. sharks are going to eat me while I'm paralyzed" and that in mid air he changed his mind. Eye opening to say the least.

And not to get too gory but I live near downtown and I have sadly seen my share of train jumpers *nyc 6 of em' while I lived there and 3 in Chicago* NEver once did any of those suicides make a blurb in the news. Anyway, a woman jumped off the 10th floor of a highrise downtown Chicago while I was out walking my sons to school. I heard a "No!" and then it felt like it rained and the ground shook for a second. By the time I figured out it hadn't rained because rain isn't red ... I was traumatized. She was deceased and beyond recognition at 10 stories of a fall. I don't know why she screamed no, maybe she regretted it - maybe she thought she was going to fall on my son. But since then I've always thought about jumpers in general and the damage that's done from any height. If 10 stories can do it, then I'm assuming jumping into water off a platform can do it too. It's so quick, it's not like a person jumps and you have moments, it's seconds.

You can see jumpers off the golden gate on youtube. It's 3.5 seconds till impact.

My point is, if Amy fell or was pushed .. it took seconds and if she wasn't drunk her body would would have stiffened at impact which would have broken every bone in her body, possibly causing some body parts to severe (feet severe often at impact from bridge jumps, that's why there's random feet that appear still in shoes but no body).

Wonder if Amy could have been hoisted up from the family's cabin balcony to a higher level on the boat?

On another note, that was a very interesting doc, imo. I saw it years ago and never forget the experience of the man who changed his mind ..



[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_%282006_documentary_film%29"]The Bridge (2006 documentary film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


"The documentary also has an interview of Kevin Hines who jumped in 2000, and survived because, as he fell toward the water, decided that he wanted to live after all, and positioned himself so he hit the water feet first. He suffered serious injuries to his spine but his life was saved by a black seal swimming below him. He later attributed the seal's presence as a sign from God."

 

[AstroKitty]

75 feet can cause serious injury, 125 your probably dead. Again, no evidence supports the theory. Time to move on.

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I think it's a bit rude to say it's time to move on when there's no actual evidence that any of these theories (sex trafficking, jumping, being a drug mule) are supported.

It's called tossing around possibilities, there's a lot of them.

And before I hear "There's 2 photos and dozens of witnesses that say..."; there's 2 photos that I do think are her but there's zero way of knowing, the eye witness accounts don't hold water with me and even the FBI. There is not footage of her being held hostage, walking around free will or even with people. The evidence ends on the ship, so I think it's a bit OK to discuss every possibility when especially falling off the boat is right up there with the most likely cause of her disappearance.

The more Amy is discussed the better, because it means people are thinking about her and care about her well being. There is literally no harm being done to her or her memory by tossing around ideas on a cold missing persons case. I enjoy hearing theories, and reading scientific backgrounds to situations so dire, it's educational if nothing else. MOO

 

[AstroKitty]

Wonder if Amy could have been hoisted up from the family's cabin balcony to a higher level on the boat?

On another note, that was a very interesting doc, imo. I saw it years ago and never forget the experience of the man who changed his mind ..



The Bridge (2006 documentary film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"The documentary also has an interview of Kevin Hines who jumped in 2000, and survived because, as he fell toward the water, decided that he wanted to live after all, and positioned himself so he hit the water feet first. He suffered serious injuries to his spine but his life was saved by a black seal swimming below him. He later attributed the seal's presence as a sign from God."

BBM that was the survivor I was referring to. His story is so tragic still hearing how his mental health decline has affected him, and his fathers' plight to save what is left of his fragile son .. gut wrenching. I think it's wonderfully shot and one of the only films I can think of off the top of my head that really explores suicide and the persons moments leading up and finishing through. I highly recommend it to anyone that is on this website when looking for missing persons who are/were suicidal. It really puts things into a perspective and changes the way you see people.

The part about the older daughter who ultimately took her life and the interview with her mother and sister is very VERY difficult to watch but eye opening because we often see missing persons cases where the parent sorta glosses over the big red flags and sorta softens it all but then a sibling or friend gets to the point. It goes to show how grief and tragedy work so differently in each of us.

I'm pretty sure that Amy didn't commit suicide (only theory I do have), but this documentary is insightful when you take it out of the box it's in (being only about suicide) and place it into : HUMAN NATURE "What happens when someone goes missing" or "these are the signs everyone missed" or "how one person remembers you is not the same as another". It also sheds light into our mental health system and lack of care.

Sorry for the off topic but it's a film worth watching.

 

[AstroKitty]

I agree opinion doesn't equal truth. However my opinion was formed based on reports at the time which seem about as close as factual as can be.

some details summarized here:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bradley_amy.html

Don't have time to find MSM articles on this.

The verified insider believes she is being used for something other than sex trafficking.

Your theory of falling overboard is as good as any, however no evidence supports the theory.

Cameras on the ship wouldn't be as prevalent as today.

Motivated people and people who know the ship well could have easily got her off the ship or she could have left with someone.

Sightings are not always reliable however there have been too many and one included seeing her Tasmanian Devil tattoo with basketball which would be a rare tattoo and likely be her.

keep up the discussion/debate. I'm by no way offended. just trying to understand how you come to your conclusion based on available information.

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Im still not understanding why you having to state you aren't offended, I'm not saying anything offensive to YOU. I'm just giving information towards a subject that seems to be consistently brought up.
My conclusion as in...? The only two things I believe is that:

She didn't take her own life *I don't count accidents as taking your own life

Or was sold into sex trafficking. I think I've stated rather clearly why I believe that and it's based on almost 20 solid years as myself being a sex worker and in the trade. I am also an advocate and voice for those that have been trafficked or pimped out. I spend physical (not online time) in research and activism. I know what traffickers seek out and their M.O. Amy does not fall into that category. I have supplied a wealth of information but you have to want to open your mind to take it all in. I'm not sitting on the other side of a computer screen giving baseless facts or theories.

Sex trafficking is not what everyone is lead to believe, and that blows me away because even the FBI website states the opposite as to what media portrays it too. It's discouraging because the real victims never seem to get any media time to speak, they are shunned or disbelieved - so we only hear them at summits.
I feel that a lot of missing children' parents want to believe the sex trafficking or in some cases pedophile rings verses it being homicide or death. I have never been able to wrap my head around that angle, but then again .. I have never been in their situation or had people prey upon me with decoyed persons with stenciled tattoos posing as my child, taking money and pretending to be a PI among other things.

I provided ample reasons why I do not see Amy having been selected to be trafficked. I backed up that list with links to the FBI and other websites that have a lot of amazing information too.

Could she have been kidnapped? Yes! But I'd assume a ransom would be given out.
could she have been smuggled off board to be used for some type of human smuggling operation? Yes, but why her? Why not an impressionable teen or a woman that went alone?

For all the reasons people are quickly able to assume Amy would be taken for sex trafficking, there's a dozen or more that would make it less likely.

I stated it before but I feel it needs to be said again:
The persons who kidnap individuals for the sex trade do not seek them out based on what THEY are attracted to. They seek out what they are paid for as far as: age, height, weight, breast size and distinguishing marks. Tattoos are a huge no go because if they are kidnapping someone, that tattoo gives away who that person is and if you're turning tricks - someone may notice and call the FBI. When kidnapping a upper middle class white woman, LE will always be involved and they are higher risks when kidnapping verses EU girls who are lured over on student visas'..

I explained this all and I don't know what happened to Amy, not a single one of us do except for her but getting down to the nitty gritty to the reality verses fantasy is a step-closer.

 

[neesaki]

I disagree with your assessment. I've read nearly every post on WS and JQ and other sites and all information I can gather she was likely abducted. Witnesses saw her going up or getting off the elevator with the band member "Yellow" early in the morning after she was laying on the patio in her father's room. I still think Yellow is the answer to this case and knows what happened. either he arranged the abduction or knows who did.

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Thank you , I agree as well. The only evidence put forth thus far, has indicated that Amy was likely abducted from the ship. The witnesses that saw her with Yellow in the early hours of the morning, and all of the events that led up to that point. Another thing, how did all of photos of Amy so mysteriously disappear from all of the other photos that had been
taken ? That combined with the other evidence and sightings, is in itself enough to raise serious suspicions for pre-meditation of foul play. Just MOHO.

 

[trenchmouth]

I think it's a bit rude to say it's time to move on when there's no actual evidence that any of these theories (sex trafficking, jumping, being a drug mule) are supported.

It's called tossing around possibilities, there's a lot of them.

And before I hear "There's 2 photos and dozens of witnesses that say..."; there's 2 photos that I do think are her but there's zero way of knowing, the eye witness accounts don't hold water with me and even the FBI. There is not footage of her being held hostage, walking around free will or even with people. The evidence ends on the ship, so I think it's a bit OK to discuss every possibility when especially falling off the boat is right up there with the most likely cause of her disappearance.

The more Amy is discussed the better, because it means people are thinking about her and care about her well being. There is literally no harm being done to her or her memory by tossing around ideas on a cold missing persons case. I enjoy hearing theories, and reading scientific backgrounds to situations so dire, it's educational if nothing else. MOO

by move on, I meant you've made your point you think she went overbroad. There is no way of ever proving that now. I suppose the only way to know if the other theories are valid is if she shows up someday which we all hope happens. After reading and exchanging posts with FindAmy on another forum, he seems privy to information that leads him to believe she is 100% still alive, at least as of 2005. He even thinks the FBI knows where she is at or roughly at. This could all be wishful thinking but he is a verified family insider so it makes me wonder.

I said offended as it appeared you were getting agitated by some other posts. I don't get worked up over anyone's opinion or what they type on this forum is the point I was making.

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[AstroKitty]

Im not agitated.