VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - #3

[masootz]

i brought up falling or being pushed overboard as a way of starting over from scratch and working our way towards what happened without making assumptions. one big assumption we've made is that these sightings are definite proof of ab. maybe they are, but thousands of people see ufos and elvis every year so maybe it's worthing taking a second look at what witnesses saw and most importantly, to me, when they reported what they saw. someone reporting three years later, after seeing two or three show about her, doesn't stand up very strongly for me.

that said, starting at the beginning and asking questions about assumptions is the smart way to go. two of my first questions were a) how do we know how far off shore the ship was when she went missing? and b) how do we know she could have swam to shore in any case (height of ship, etc)?

those seem like two really huge assumptions that everyone has taken as fact. the "there's no evidence" is a weak argument - she's been missing for sixteen years and none of the supposed evidence has found her, so it's a choice to either continue to rehash the exact same arguments or try to look at things a different way. i'm going to try to look at things from a different angle.

 

[tricket]

by move on, I meant you've made your point you think she went overbroad. There is no way of ever proving that now. I suppose the only way to know if the other theories are valid is if she shows up someday which we all hope happens. After reading and exchanging posts with FindAmy on another forum, he seems privy to information that leads him to believe she is 100% still alive, at least as of 2005. He even thinks the FBI knows where she is at or roughly at. This could all be wishful thinking but he is a verified family insider so it makes me wonder.

I said offended as it appeared you were getting agitated by some other posts. I don't get worked up over anyone's opinion or what they type on this forum is the point I was making.

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Just a silly question.... If they know where she is, why isn't she home?

 

[tricket]

So much time has gone by. Would she remember her family now, or would she be so brainwashed that she doesn't know.

 

[Kristin83]

So much time has gone by. Would she remember her family now, or would she be so brainwashed that she doesn't know.

That has crossed my mind many times; if she was found alive, would she be so brainwashed, traumatized, drugged out, bonded with her captors, etc, would she even WANT to come home?

 

[Galbin]

AstroKitty

Your posts are very interesting. However, if you think she was pushed or fell overboard, what do you make of her photos being missing? That has always been a *giant* red flag for me.

Poor Amy.

 

[Kristin83]

AstroKitty

Your posts are very interesting. However, if you think she was pushed or fell overboard, what do you make of her photos being missing? That has always been a *giant* red flag for me.

Poor Amy.

I understand Astro's point that Amy didn't seem like a "good" candidate for sex trafficking. But the missing pictures are proof to me that someone wanted her for something.

I read on another board this morning that Alister Douglas claims the reason he said to Brad "sorry about your sister" was because the crew members had already knocked on his door earlier that morning, looking for Amy and that is how he knew she was missing. Whether or not that's true, I don't know. I was on his Facebook the other day and it seems he has become a Christian. It's my hope that if he is truly living under conviction, he will tell everything he knows about what happened that morning.

 

[88keys]

The problem is that much of the info we are basing the sex-trafficing theory on may be false. I don't mean necessarily that we have been lied to, but maybe people were mistaken about what they saw. Maybe some of the "witnesses" read too much into something innocent. Or maybe some of them were flat-out lying. I think starting from scratch is a great idea, because most of the info we have came from one person and hasn't always been backed up by media reports.

I used to fully believe the sex trafficing theory. Now....I don't know. It does seem very convoluted and hard to believe. At the very least, I think exploring other angles is a good thing. It's always important not to get tunnel vision.

 

[masootz]

I used to fully believe the sex trafficing theory. Now....I don't know. It does seem very convoluted and hard to believe. At the very least, I think exploring other angles is a good thing. It's always important not to get tunnel vision.

same here. i re-read my old posts last week and it's amazing what a little time and space will do to your perspective.

 

[masootz]

regarding the missing pictures - this is a perfect example of an opportunity to go back over what we know and what we can verify. what do we know about the missing pictures? links, old posts, etc can be helpful in taking a new look at this piece of the puzzle.

iirc - the missing pictures were taken the night before at dinner. ab's mom stated when she went to pick them up the staff member could not find them. i believe he/she gave ab's mom a ticket to come pick up reprints later. afaik she did not come back and pick up the reprints.

please let me know if i'm missing something or remembering incorrectly. the reason i've never seen it as a big deal is because, to me, it only looks sinister with the hindsight that she went missing. it easily could have been the case of an overwhelmed staff member not being able to find something right away. he/she offered to reprint the pictures so it wasn't like a person stealing them would have been able to hide something incriminating.

 

[AstroKitty]

Im not too clear on the photos missing - the actual statement and not the versions that have been retold.

I don't believe there's proof of anything for certain, imo.

As far as would she know her family now after being gone so long... that's a very good question. If she's out there and has constantly told people who she is etc etc (like the eye witnesses state) - then I would suspect she's kept that aspect of her life (family, herself) alive within her.

 

[dotr]

May / 12
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/b...-growing-travel-risk.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

" According to security consultants, kidnappers generally prey on victims more vulnerable than business travelers, who tend to limit time in dicey destinations and keep irregular schedules. But sometimes even the business class gets swept up in this rising international crime wave.

Many companies offer help in response, among them international insurance companies, secretive consultants who manage hostage situations and local outfits offering abduction prevention courses. As the Web site of Chartis, a leading underwriter of kidnapping insurance, says: “Kidnapping is not a rare occurrence; it’s big business.”

And it’s getting bigger.

Kidnapping for ransom is on the rise in many countries. In 2011, the Mexican government reported a more than 300 percent increase in the crime since 2005. The United States State Department Web site, which tracks worldwide crime trends, warns of “alarming increases” in kidnapping in Venezuela, and that abductions in Pakistan “continued to increase dramatically nationwide.” But statistics can be difficult to gather, and the numbers of victims are likely underestimated. Many released hostages refuse to report the crime; some fear attracting copycat criminals, while others distrust corrupt police who moonlight as kidnappers. In Venezuela, for instance, the State Department estimates that roughly four out of five kidnappings are not reported.

Insurance companies say business is brisk. “Kidnapping and ransom is a very profitable insurance business,” said Ana Paula Menezes, a former underwriter. Kidnap insurance policies typically include the services of response teams that coach victims’ families on everything from proof-of-life questions to ransom prices, which the policies reimburse. “Generally, the family will have someone in front of them within 24 hours,” said Jeff Green, the director of Griffin Underwriting, which specializes in kidnap and ransom insurance. He explained the kidnapping bargaining process: “It’s a business negotiation, where somebody is trying to sell something — and you know you are going to buy it, you have to buy it. But the advantage you have is that you are the only buyer, because they have no value to anyone else.”

Bbm.

Maybe Amy is of great value to many? imo.

 

[masootz]

the only quote i can find directly addressing the dinner pictures:

"During the party, Amy and I went to the 4th deck to look at the photos that had been taken after dinner that evening. ALL of Amy’s photos were missing! We asked the person in charge of the gallery where Amy’s pictures would be posted. He said he remembered placing them with the other photos taken at the same time, but acknowledged he couldn’t find them either. I asked him if he could have them redeveloped and he agreed, claiming they would be available the next day. In my possession, I still have the ticket for the redevelopment of those photos."

http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/LatestMemberStories/Amy_Lynn_Bradley.html

i still believe the scenario only looks weird in hindsight. the employee, during a busy party, couldn't immediately find her pictures but agreed to make copies. this was before amy went missing as amy was with her mother during this interaction. her mother never went back to get the reprints.

 

[dotr]

Could it be a case of hate crime, on several accounts ?

0 : 28

http://chrisfenwick.com/home/2011/3/24/amy-bradley-video.html

 

[trenchmouth]

Just a silly question.... If they know where she is, why isn't she home?

I asked FA the same question, if I recall correctly, the answer was vague and something like the FBI or Justice department has bigger fish to fry and that it isn't that simple to barge in to another country and recover her. there's also the possibility she doesn't want to come home after all this time, she would be a different person.

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[neesaki]

by move on, I meant you've made your point you think she went overbroad. There is no way of ever proving that now. I suppose the only way to know if the other theories are valid is if she shows up someday which we all hope happens. After reading and exchanging posts with FindAmy on another forum, he seems privy to information that leads him to believe she is 100% still alive, at least as of 2005. He even thinks the FBI knows where she is at or roughly at. This could all be wishful thinking but he is a verified family insider so it makes me wonder.

I said offended as it appeared you were getting agitated by some other posts. I don't get worked up over anyone's opinion or what they type on this forum is the point I was making.

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Amy's family reportedly do not believe the falling overboard theory either, nor does the VI, nor does Chris Fenwick. It appears that the FBI don't believe it either or they wouldn't be posting information of the witness sightings, with the artists renditions of the two men allegedly seen with her. One might speculate that since all of these people who are all closer to the case than we are here, could perhaps know things that haven't been disclosed to the general public or even to us amateur arm chair detectives :wink: .

FWIW, these are a couple of the points CF brings out in his blog in argument against the overboard theory :

http://chrisfenwick.com/member/chrisfenwick
August 23, 2010 chris fenwick

2 witnesses reported seeing Amy go up the elevator with Yellow and shortly after Yellow came down the elevator alone.

This was at approximately 6 a.m., after Amy was seen in her room by her father at 5:30 a.m.

She did not fall overboard, the rails on that ship, in that room, with that short of a girl would have made it impossible to accidentally fall overboard.

 

[neesaki]

One theory, not sure if it's already been posted already here, is that Amy may have been an easy target simply as a result of becoming friendly with Yellow. I've wondered if she could have been used to pay a debt, either of Yellow and/or associates. No, she may not fit the typical profile, but when criminals are desperate, maybe they sometimes take advantage of an opportunity.... seize the moment, so to speak. JMO

 

[danzn16]

The problem is that much of the info we are basing the sex-trafficing theory on may be false. I don't mean necessarily that we have been lied to, but maybe people were mistaken about what they saw. Maybe some of the "witnesses" read too much into something innocent. Or maybe some of them were flat-out lying. I think starting from scratch is a great idea, because most of the info we have came from one person and hasn't always been backed up by media reports.

I used to fully believe the sex trafficing theory. Now....I don't know. It does seem very convoluted and hard to believe. At the very least, I think exploring other angles is a good thing. It's always important not to get tunnel vision.

And some of the information is directly opposite of what the family directly stated on television shows and media reports. At this point I no idea what to believe is true or not. And I don't understand why there is so many facts that differ. I can't think of any other case where this occurs. I truly feel for the family. I can not imagine living this long with the constant wonder and not being able to at least know what happened


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[neesaki]

Strange, I can't find Amy on the FBI missing list at all now. Am I missing something ? Could someone else check it out and tell me I'm wrong ? TIA

ETA: But then I don't see Robyn Gardner on there either. How strange. What's with the FBI ? Surely I'm just missing something...

 

[tricket]

I was just thinking today about how long it has been, and all that she has been through. Where would you even start to pick up the pieces and how would you even try to start back into a life that "was". I know Amy was like 23 when she went missing, the amount of time she has been missing is starting to creep up to the amount if time she lived a "normal" life.
I see the comments that she wasn't an ideal candidate for sex trafficking, but I do recall she has green eyes, which is very rare. It had been mentioned before that her green eyes could be seen as desirable. I hope one day to see closure to this case.

 

[dotr]

Strange, I can't find Amy on the FBI missing list at all now. Am I missing something ? Could someone else check it out and tell me I'm wrong ? TIA

ETA: But then I don't see Robyn Gardner on there either. How strange. What's with the FBI ? Surely I'm just missing something...

Ditto, "This page does not seem to exist"…

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/may/kids/bradley_a_manwithbradleysketch.jpg/view