VA - Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell, 18, Norfolk, 3 March 2015 #15

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

There are 3 things that we know
1. WH was (recently?) separated from JH
2. AJ had texted she was afraid of someone.
3. That picture of AJ looking so upset with WH holding her.

In the jailhouse interview WH said that LE "had a scenario of why I met my wife .... and I had ideals on, you know, a young budding girl and that I was sick..... and that she is missing and that maybe she was gonna to tell on me or something"

I think he is sick, very sick and unfortunately I tend to go with that LE scenario
As another post suggested, could he have bought a Go Pro ? Sorry if you read this Zach

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tll_DccWAnjsCgnvMktbb7HXTh7CK6Gkxh8C3PLn0No/mobilebasic?pli=1

BBM I think this is 100% the truth.

 

[Ontario Mom]

As far as Im concerned, that Pa$tor can go take a long walk off of a very short pier.

As for forgiveness? If WH did this then there is no forgiveness. NONE.

He ceased being a human being the second he took this innocent girls life. Where was her forgiveness?

You can never stop all wrongdoing, but if you don't punish it, then it proliferates until anarchy wears the robes of tolerance and understanding.

There is no understanding when it comes to taking another's life and in a just society there should be zero tolerance.

To tolerate or forgive actions such as these is tacit approval of those actions.

Even worse, its places a higher value on the life of a killer than that of their victims.

If he did this and its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, true forgiveness can only come from WH's maker. Its our job to make sure he gets to ask that....in person.

I doubt he will find what he's looking for there either.

There is a world of difference between a pastor and this pa$tor. Any real Christian can see it, and most non-Christians can see it as well. Characters like this are a dime a dozen and the sad thing is, they scam a lot of people out of a lot of money on a regular basis. I wish people weren't so gullible but unfortunately, they (we) are.

As a Christian, forgiveness is critical to our faith. That does NOT mean God expects the victim (in this case, the parents and loved ones) of an evil act to rush right over and embrace the person who committed the evil. It does mean however that in time, with grace, and much prayer, and through seas of tears and layers of rage and anger, sorrow and grief, we are expected to let it GO and genuinely leave that person in the court of GOD'S justice. It's not easy and it's not quick... it's a process. For some it takes a very long time to get to that place. Doing lip-service about forgiveness is being dishonest about this process and essentially telling people they shouldn't feel the natural feelings one has when they've been betrayed in the worst way possible. Anger at whoever did this to AJ is natural, and right, and just. Now the process begins for everyone who loved her dearly, to work through it.

Forgiveness also does NOT mean we're not to seek justice. In a civilized society we are EXPECTED to seek justice for such things to keep our society from devolving into madness and chaos.

There's my sermon for the day. FWIW.

 

[Ontario Mom]

More needs to be found out about the "black Dodge van" that is unusual. My hubby is in the car business. As a general rule nobody paints a van black. Unless it is government. Think about it they are to hot. I asked hubby about this and he said he has never seen a "black Dodge van", have you? We had a Dodge van for work but it was baby blue. Could this have been an SUV?

I don't even know how it didn't hit me until right now but... hubby and I just bought a black Chrysler mini-van 2 weeks ago.

 

[daisytrail]

Yes. The timing seems very odd. It does not seem to fit the timeline as we know it. Hard to believe he would go back there just to grab something to to plant elsewhere. But he is not exactly a criminal mastermind, so who knows?

That he might go back to the house? Maybe. If he did it, he might wonder if he actually did it. If it was a crime of impulse and drug-fueled mania, he might go back there to check to see if her really did it. I have a feeling that he may regret doing it. Here is a rather bizarre scenario that occurs to me: At first, he does not think he did it. When he realizes that yes, he really did do it, he becomes a criminal mastermind indeed. In his own grandiose mind! (Fueled by more drugs, of course! I think he really lies about the extent of his drug use.)

Now you all can laugh at me and the unicorn I rode in on! :rollercoaster:

 

[221bBakerStreet]

There is a world of difference between a pastor and this pa$tor. Any real Christian can see it, and most non-Christians can see it as well. Characters like this are a dime a dozen and the sad thing is, they scam a lot of people out of a lot of money on a regular basis. I wish people weren't so gullible but unfortunately, they (we) are.

As a Christian, forgiveness is critical to our faith. That does NOT mean God expects the victim (in this case, the parents and loved ones) of an evil act to rush right over and embrace the person who committed the evil. It does mean however that in time, with grace, and much prayer, and through seas of tears and layers of rage and anger, sorrow and grief, we are expected to let it GO and genuinely leave that person in the court of GOD'S justice. It's not easy and it's not quick... it's a process. For some it takes a very long time to get to that place. Doing lip-service about forgiveness is being dishonest about this process and essentially telling people they shouldn't feel the natural feelings one has when they've been betrayed in the worst way possible. Anger at whoever did this to AJ is natural, and right, and just. Now the process begins for everyone who loved her dearly, to work through it.

Forgiveness also does NOT mean we're not to seek justice. In a civilized society we are EXPECTED to seek justice for such things to keep our society from devolving into madness and chaos.

There's my sermon for the day. FWIW.

I'm a HUGE Metallica fan...so every time I see or hear WH speak...as well as the Pa$tor...I think of one of their songs.

It starts "No more. The crap rolls out your mouth again."

But the line that seemingly plays on a loop when I hear them talk...

"You lie so much you believe yourself."




"Holier Than Thou" is a fitting song title.

 

[margarita25]

Around 1 week later, if we're guessing the dates correctly. I think he screwed up somewhere and had to go back. Maybe because he left the phone. Or because he needed the clothes to dump. I dunno.

Still catching up, but maybe this explains her being found in the grass...he had to pull her body out from the shed to more easily remove her items? Maybe the shed was too dark or cramped, and decomp would have set it by this point.

 

[margarita25]

I deal with vacant foreclosed homes every day. Even up here in NY, the ones that have been vacant for more than a year have tall "grass" that does not fall over even with the weight of the snow. It is not really grass, more like burdocks, small trees, and other resilient thick weed. So the yard at a house in VA that has been vacant for a couple of years can definitely have tall/overgrown "grass" that would hide almost anything from view. I have walked yards like that where there is a lot of debris hidden in the yard and until you actually walk the yard you would never know it was there. I am surprised that after 20 years in this business that I have not found any remains hidden in these house, sheds or yards.

This is a good point, there is still dry thick grass weed stalks or whatever you want to call them up here in the Rockies during the winter! (Eta: I'm looking at them right now actually). (Eta: and FTR the yesterday I was looking out enjoying the beautiful natural scenery thinking how some robbed AJ of this....maybe she is looking out on even more beautiful scenery than us?)

As far as Im concerned, that Pa$tor can go take a long walk off of a very short pier.

As for forgiveness? If WH did this then there is no forgiveness. NONE.

He ceased being a human being the second he took this innocent girls life. Where was her forgiveness?

You can never stop all wrongdoing, but if you don't punish it, then it proliferates until anarchy wears the robes of tolerance and understanding.

There is no understanding when it comes to taking another's life and in a just society there should be zero tolerance.

To tolerate or forgive actions such as these is tacit approval of those actions.

Even worse, its places a higher value on the life of a killer than that of their victims.

If he did this and its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, true forgiveness can only come from WH's maker. Its our job to make sure he gets to ask that....in person.

I doubt he will find what he's looking for there either.

:goodpost:

How eloquent, the part about putting a higher value on the life of the killer rather than the victims!!

 

[SeeAlice]

There is a world of difference between a pastor and this pa$tor. Any real Christian can see it, and most non-Christians can see it as well. Characters like this are a dime a dozen and the sad thing is, they scam a lot of people out of a lot of money on a regular basis. I wish people weren't so gullible but unfortunately, they (we) are.

As a Christian, forgiveness is critical to our faith. That does NOT mean God expects the victim (in this case, the parents and loved ones) of an evil act to rush right over and embrace the person who committed the evil. It does mean however that in time, with grace, and much prayer, and through seas of tears and layers of rage and anger, sorrow and grief, we are expected to let it GO and genuinely leave that person in the court of GOD'S justice. It's not easy and it's not quick... it's a process. For some it takes a very long time to get to that place. Doing lip-service about forgiveness is being dishonest about this process and essentially telling people they shouldn't feel the natural feelings one has when they've been betrayed in the worst way possible. Anger at whoever did this to AJ is natural, and right, and just. Now the process begins for everyone who loved her dearly, to work through it.

Forgiveness also does NOT mean we're not to seek justice. In a civilized society we are EXPECTED to seek justice for such things to keep our society from devolving into madness and chaos.

There's my sermon for the day. FWIW.

Thank you so much for posting this. I was beginning to regret my comment yesterday on how much we as a species have evolved.

 

[margarita25]

I deal with vacant foreclosed homes every day. Even up here in NY, the ones that have been vacant for more than a year have tall "grass" that does not fall over even with the weight of the snow. It is not really grass, more like burdocks, small trees, and other resilient thick weed. So the yard at a house in VA that has been vacant for a couple of years can definitely have tall/overgrown "grass" that would hide almost anything from view. I have walked yards like that where there is a lot of debris hidden in the yard and until you actually walk the yard you would never know it was there. I am surprised that after 20 years in this business that I have not found any remains hidden in these house, sheds or yards.

Could be just old, dead weeds that are still standing from last year. I see a lot of waist high weeds in fields and ditches where I am (northern Virginia). At this point, it's all left over from last year.

Sent from my KFJWA using Tapatalk

Agreed.

 

[margarita25]

Not to familiar with pings and such just find it odd to take 38 days to follow though on lead ? What if she was still alive at the time wouldn't timing be crucial ??

Not saying this is the case here, but LE has to secure a warrant to get cellphone info from the provider. Sometimes this takes time (38 days would be an extra long time imo, in JR's case it took under a week iirc?). Yes, if the victim is still alive, timing is indeed crucial.

Also, with regards to leads (not specifically pings), they are often "prioritized" by LE; who knows when they decide to follow up on whatever leads, sometimes they can be a lot of tips to weed through. In Jessica R's case it was thousands, iirc. Again, not saying this is the case here, but you see these horror stories on TV crime shows about potential leads that sit on a desk for who knows how long.

Eta: I think LE has likely been on top of things here from the beginning in this case. But there was this one case here where a family member was trying to find his/her loved one a long time ago, I can't remember which state it was (again VA mp cases that I've seen seem to have been handled quite well recently imo). They filed a mp report, but the detective on the case then went on vacation for a week!

 

[daisytrail]

My opinion is that WH was bent on setting this kid up. And, ummm...I'm not sure how attacking this family's dog (to such an extent that he's been charged with maiming/killing an animal) was going to help WH find AJ.

Let us assume a little psychopathy. Yes, I know it is like being a little bit pregnant, yet nothing good will come to term. Psychopaths do not generally like animals or anything that happens to get in their way.

 

[SeeAlice]

There is little doubt in my mind that cops know exactly who did this, if anyone. They didn't pull that location out of thin air.

JMO

 

[Vail]

Today I've convinced myself that LE found AJ's phone in the pond in IOW and it led them to her body. I don't think she was alive when brought to the house, and I think he buried her or covered her to a degree. We think a shed is a more reasonable place to put her - or the deep woods, but that's just it - they are the first place you'd look. I think whatever thin thread of logic was going through his emotionally and possibly drug-frenzied mind, it was telling him that the closer to a structure and more inconspicuous spot, the better. We don't really know what else was back there, it is possible AJ was next to an old compost heap, AC unit, flower garden etc which was the most accessible place to "lay her to rest." I wonder if there were plans to flip this house or build a deck off the back over that spot and WH knew about them.

I expect more info is going to start pouring out over the next couple weeks regarding real leads now that people are being confronted with the reality that she is dead, likely murdered, especially once the ME's full report is released.

I've never been more frustrated to be overseas than I am right now, and never thought I would miss Virginia.

 

[Coldpizza]

:wave:Reminder guys in case you missed it:

Sleuthing the property owners, and then sharing the information on WS, WILL result in a time out. No questions asked.

Bessie
________

 

[Momoffourboys]

O/T, but I just wanted to say how nice it is when people open up and share about their disorders, one of the worst things is feeling like you are alone or crazy. I'm a bit of a mess lol PTSD, agoraphobia, panic disorder, emetophobia... and a heavy pinch of OCD. Also I just wanted to say we do have an Anxiety Thread here at WS, if anyone ever needs to talk.

Skibaboo, your post made me smile. I think everyone has a little of something, diagnosed or not. I appreciate your honesty and warmth. It comes through in each of your posts. Hugs. And thank you.

 

[margarita25]

There is a world of difference between a pastor and this pa$tor. Any real Christian can see it, and most non-Christians can see it as well. Characters like this are a dime a dozen and the sad thing is, they scam a lot of people out of a lot of money on a regular basis. I wish people weren't so gullible but unfortunately, they (we) are.

As a Christian, forgiveness is critical to our faith. That does NOT mean God expects the victim (in this case, the parents and loved ones) of an evil act to rush right over and embrace the person who committed the evil. It does mean however that in time, with grace, and much prayer, and through seas of tears and layers of rage and anger, sorrow and grief, we are expected to let it GO and genuinely leave that person in the court of GOD'S justice. It's not easy and it's not quick... it's a process. For some it takes a very long time to get to that place. Doing lip-service about forgiveness is being dishonest about this process and essentially telling people they shouldn't feel the natural feelings one has when they've been betrayed in the worst way possible. Anger at whoever did this to AJ is natural, and right, and just. Now the process begins for everyone who loved her dearly, to work through it.

Forgiveness also does NOT mean we're not to seek justice. In a civilized society we are EXPECTED to seek justice for such things to keep our society from devolving into madness and chaos.

There's my sermon for the day. FWIW.

Good post, thanks OM. :wave:

 

[Smurfily]

Today I've convinced myself that LE found AJ's phone in the pond in IOW and it led them to her body.

That would make sense why they did not search the entire pond. They found the phone and didnt need to look further?

 

[Ed79]

More needs to be found out about the "black Dodge van" that is unusual. My hubby is in the car business. As a general rule nobody paints a van black. Unless it is government. Think about it they are to hot. I asked hubby about this and he said he has never seen a "black Dodge van", have you? We had a Dodge van for work but it was baby blue. Could this have been an SUV?

Depends on the area you are from... Tons of black cars in hampton roads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[margarita25]

But it is not necessary. It is not required. In my opinion, some things are unforgiveable. If people want to say they want to lay something to rest or let it go, that is fine with me. I just don't see any reason to equate those things with forgiveness. That is not my belief and I loved your post as the other thread closed about freewill! I just wanted to let you know that.

I can forgive tiffs. I can forgive stubbornness. I can even forgive character flaws (having a few of my own), but I cannot forgive murder. I cannot forgive rape. I cannot forgive anyone who would harm my child in some sort of soul-searing, irreparable way. I cannot forgive child molestation. I have worked as a victim advocate and a CASA, and I have had personal experience with the devastation that child molestation can wreak over generations. To tell victims and families that they should rush to some sort of forgiveness is, in my opinion, outright damaging.

But about freewill: I think we way overrate the power of freewill. The desire to understand why some people do horrible things should surely mean that we need to explore the near-universally unacceptable idea that maybe freewill isn't all it is cracked up to be and that maybe some people actually have more freewill than others.

I could give examples, but it would be beyond the scope of this thread. However, I was interested to see someone post that WH "is bipolar." I wonder if it has ever occurred to anyone here that in the grip of a manic episode which is accompanied by psychosis, a person may have less freewill than others?

I missed the bit about bipolar disorder. Is that fact, because if it is it certainly explains his use of language which I was so curious about?

Thank you, daisytrail. I know that you especially can probably relate with what I was trying to say back there. Thank you.

 

[margarita25]

That would make sense why they did not search the entire pond. They found the phone and didnt need to look further?

Interesting....sorry I missed this...they didn't search the entire pond?