VA - Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell, 18, Norfolk, 3 March 2015 #19

[Mountain_Kat]

I personally don't believe she has been cremated, YET!
Is it normal to NOT have an urn at a memorial service?
I ask because the relatives in my family have all had burials.

In most cremations I've seen, the remains are presented at the service. But bear in mind, this was a sudden, unexpected death. It is entirely possible that a family might have decided to hold the service prior to the remains being cremated...for any number of reasons. Perhaps they don't have the money for cremation prior to the service, perhaps the wanted to hold the service sooner than the remains were available, perhaps they don't have the money for an urn or haven't yet decided on which urn they want to buy, or perhaps they simply choose not to have the remains visible at the service for whatever reason. Perhaps investigators requested that the family hold the remains for cremation until such time as they advised them to go ahead with the cremation. Who knows?

 

[Vabrownid1]

UPS delivered my Dad to my Mom's front door when he was cremated . I had the pleasure of answering the door when he came. His ashes were in a small square cardboard box that was heavy. We sprinkled some of his ashes under his favorite tree in his back yard and buried the rest in a cemetery plot.
Anyhoo, I'm going to AJ's memorial tonight at Longwood and will see if I can get some video.

 

[runninglowonbananas]

If there are marks in/on the bones, the forensic anthropologist can determine if they are from sharp object trauma, blunt object trauma, GS wounds and animal/vulture exposure.
Correct?
I'm also curious to know how or what they do to determine time or timeframe of death and if they were moved, AND if moved can they tell how many times moved post mortem?

ETA: and they can usually tell what type of an object/objects were used to cause the sharp/blunt trauma, correct?

Absolutely. Blunt-force (Hammer, shovel, lamp, etc), sharp-force (knife or other sharp object), and ballistic (gunshot) can all be seen in bones. Bones are a lot like furniture. They're very hard and stable but they do receive scuffs and scratches from trauma. Forensic anthropologists can tell if these occurred antemortem (before the crime), perimortem (at the time), or postmortem (after death).

There are a number of ways you can get a timeline too. One way is soil composition. The other is entomology (study of insects). Insects have a certain lifespan and evolution that is rather fast. Larvae--->adult can create a timeline. Certain insects come out during certain types of weather too.

They can also tell what kind of trauma attached the insects. There are some insects that are blood-thirstier than others (sorry for graphicness)

**sorry never answered your question about what type of object - YES. A serrated knife will leave a serrated mark. It's seen very often with saws. It will match the object.

 

[beetrice]

A body can be released with a death certificate that states cause/manner as pending. (In the state of Maryland at least). The body can be buried or cremated. After the toxicology reports come back a new Amended death certificate is issued. You cannot collect life insurance and some other legal things until you have the amended certificate. I don't know of a case where a body wasn't released within at least a week although I am sure somewhere there is an exception to norm.

In VA- the MD or in this case the ME has to sign and have DX or suspected COD to release death certificate. Nursing super here.

 

[beetrice]

This is in no way taking away from AJ, but In FL, the body is held for 48 hrs before cremation. My dad passed in 2013. His wife, my step monster, never told me he was in the hospital. He was there for a week when he passed on a Thursday. She wouldn't let me see him even after he passed, said no one would cause he was being cremated. But, my son worked for a company that picked up bodies and took them where they needed to go, told me about the 48 hrs. He was right. The memorial service was held on Saturday after he passed. I was able to spend time with dad after the service. There was a urn there, but of course there was nothing in it.

So, yes they do have memorials with no remains and it does take a good while to get the remains back. I want to say it took a month.

Yes, I think it can vary- my sisters service about 10 days out had no urn- I guess they were back logged and my Dad it took 10 days and I delayed the service on the cremains for it. Which, I might add, drove people batty. Never have I seen people so worried about when the service was going to be?

O/T- how do you get the little icons to be at the bottom of your comment?

 

[Mistree]

Absolutely. Blunt-force (Hammer, shovel, lamp, etc), sharp-force (knife or other sharp object), and ballistic (gunshot) can all be seen in bones. Bones are a lot like furniture. They're very hard and stable but they do receive scuffs and scratches from trauma. Forensic anthropologists can tell if these occurred antemortem (before the crime), perimortem (at the time), or postmortem (after death).

There are a number of ways you can get a timeline too. One way is soil composition. The other is entomology (study of insects). Insects have a certain lifespan and evolution that is rather fast. Larvae--->adult can create a timeline. Certain insects come out during certain types of weather too.

They can also tell what kind of trauma attached the insects. There are some insects that are blood-thirstier than others (sorry for graphicness)

**sorry never answered your question about what type of object - YES. A serrated knife will leave a serrated mark. It's seen very often with saws. It will match the object.

Thank you so much for this. IMO, there is an object (possibly) that made a mark and they are trying to determine what that object is. I believe they (LE) already know, but, it's just another T crossed to solidify their case.

 

[Brippilaine]

Is anyone else having a problem viewing Zach's Blog? I may have missed something!

 

[Mistree]

Does anyone remember if a forensic Anthropologist was called in on the Hannah Graham or Morgan Harrington case?

 

[grammy56]

I personally don't believe she has been cremated, YET!
Is it normal to NOT have an urn at a memorial service?
I ask because the relatives in my family have all had burials.

Yes the urn is there and usually a picture of the person. But HEY I am in the south no telling what someone may do.

We still pull over to the side of the road for a funeral procession. Bet some of you have never herd that one.

Everyone is welcome doesn't matter if you know them or not. We do a service with a preacher. Go to the gravesite and then to the family home. Oh we really spend the days up to the service at the person home.

Food will come in the door as soon as word gets out, to feed everyone that is there. This can go on for a few days different things have to come together for the service.

A quote I heard once, "Southern people love wedding food and funeral food." I hate to say it but is the truth. Bar-b-q, deer meat, fried chicken, fried corn, green beans, fired okra, green bean casserole (have to have both), unknown casseroles?, pound cake, banana pudding, strawberry pudding, coconut cake, german chocolate cake, unknown kinds of cakes and puddings, jello and ALWAYS ALWAYS sweet tea. rant over....

 

[Brippilaine]

Mistree I do not remember one (forensic Anthtopologist) assisting in Hannah's case not sure about Morgan's as that was before my time on here!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I believe the ME would be able to find trace amounts in a lab. That's my opinion.

I do not necessarily agree. Seminal fluid degrades very quickly, especially in the vagina. Seminal fluid in the vagina of a decomposing body degrades even more rapidly...and degrades to the point where detection is very difficult, imo. Here is a link to a site which explains the methods by which semen is detected. Note the problems and/or limitations with detection in each method, and remember that we are discussing a body that has been exposed to the elements, water, microbes, insect activity and animal predation for 30 days.

https://ncforensics.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/forensic-tests-for-semen-what-you-should-know/

 

[wunderngwhy]

Yes the urn is there and usually a picture of the person. But HEY I am in the south no telling what someone may do.

We still pull over to the side of the road for a funeral procession. Bet some of you have never herd that one.

Everyone is welcome doesn't matter if you know them or not. We do a service with a preacher. Go to the gravesite and then to the family home. Oh we really spend the days up to the service at the person home.

Food will come in the door as soon as word gets out, to feed everyone that is there. This can go on for a few days different things have to come together for the service.

A quote I heard once, "Southern people love wedding food and funeral food." I hate to say it but is the truth. Bar-b-q, deer meat, fried chicken, fried corn, green beans, fired okra, green bean casserole (have to have both), unknown casseroles?, pound cake, banana pudding, strawberry pudding, coconut cake, german chocolate cake, unknown kinds of cakes and puddings, jello and ALWAYS ALWAYS sweet tea. rant over....

Exactly how we do them as well....and ALWAYS Sweet Tea

 

[Amster]

<modsnip>

For news or updates about this case, is one local news outlet more reliable than any other?

 

[wunderngwhy]

Thank you so much for this. IMO, there is an object (possibly) that made a mark and they are trying to determine what that object is. I believe they (LE) already know, but, it's just another T crossed to solidify their case.

JMO ...Do you think this possible object might have been where they found the body or possibly closer to her home that she was taken from ? .....or located with any of the possibly planted/found evidence ? Would they be able to tell if soil was found on her or said object exactly what yard or area ? >>>>Just wundrng no speculation

 

[abstr]

In VA- the MD or in this case the ME has to sign and have DX or suspected COD to release death certificate. Nursing super here.

I previously worked in Medical regulation compliance and then went back to school to become a Funeral Director (My license is for the sales/service part as well as embalming and prepping the body. Recently the laws in MD have changed to allow you to be Director who is not licensed to embalm.) Here in Maryland a suspected COD would be listed as Pending. Again the deceased can be buried or cremated before the Amended DC comes back. I recall one particular case where a young man was found dead after being missing for 24 hours. There was a question as to why he was found in the middle of the woods alone and deceased. There were undercover officers at the funeral watching the actions of his friends and acquaintances. He was still allowed to be buried and six weeks later it was finalized that it was natural death from a medical condition. (Sounds out there but I don't feel it would be
appropriate to disclose more details.)

 

[Happyshoes]

Two things are bothering me today - where AJ was found and that self-named Pastor. Not linking them at all, just want to know more about both. Shady, shady...

 

[iamnotagolem]

I wonder if any one tied to this case has connections with the old house where she was found. I also wonder if there is any evidence of her being inside the house.

 

[PirateGirl]

With all due respect, I dont think that reporter knows what he or she is talking about.

Per the Va Department of Healths official website:

"Death certificates are deemed to be pending when laboratory studies or investigations are needed to determine the cause and manner of death."

How can you release a body to a funeral home without a death certificate?

My sister was cremated. She passed away at 43 yo. The death certificate had "pending" as COD because we had to wait for autopsy results which took a couple of months. She was cremated as soon as she was released from the ME, but this also wasn't a murder case. To answer your question, death certificates can be edited once they have been issued.

 

[hisjerseygirl]

JMO... (And take it how you wish) I do not think that she has been cremated. Simply because I believe JH and camp would make a public production of scattering the ashes, over some place that's public and near and dear to AJ, (like the softball field where the memorial game took place) as to illustrate why their "social media initiative" is necessary "so that no parent has to do this again" i think they will see it as too opportunistic to simply do it quietly.

I also do not believe for one second that LE has released the body as of yet, especially with that camp being so vocal about the fact that she will be cremated, knowing that once that happens, there will be no availability of a "second-look" (or third or twenty-third) for other experts.


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absolutely agree. it would be a big spectacle.

 

[PirateGirl]

JMO... (And take it how you wish) I do not think that she has been cremated. Simply because I believe JH and camp would make a public production of scattering the ashes, over some place that's public and near and dear to AJ, (like the softball field where the memorial game took place) as to illustrate why their "social media initiative" is necessary "so that no parent has to do this again" i think they will see it as too opportunistic to simply do it quietly.

I also do not believe for one second that LE has released the body as of yet, especially with that camp being so vocal about the fact that she will be cremated, knowing that once that happens, there will be no availability of a "second-look" (or third or twenty-third) for other experts.


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I am not sure they would make it so public to scatter the ashes. It is against the law in many places and most of the time, a permit is required where it's allowed.