VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #3

[PAXIMUS]

SYNIISTER may well end up being the most interesting witness in this case. He is BOTH a witness for the prosecution AND the defense. For the prosecution he establishes that Sam actually admitted to "killing them all," in his phone call to Syniister, yet Syniister also tells us that "we dont know what Sam had been going through in his life leading up to the murders," a comment that seemingly fits in VERY NICELY with the defense attorneys comment that "You need to get to know my client before you judge him."

THIS MAKES ME WONDER if the defense may try and introduce ABUSE in to Sams narration, that he was an abused child or something and this led him down this path to murder and mayhem, this of course likely wouldnt end with an acquittal or hung jury but MIGHT be a successful defense to get CAPITAL PUNISHMENT off the table and get Sam LWOP.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Really? I'm not so sure about that. I've got a gut feeling that could backfire for the defense, big time.

It could be used to prove intent and premeditation, painting Sam as a young man who fantasized about violence and murder. Keep in mind that he wasn't just a passive listener; he produced violent graphics and violent songs. He was an active participant and Sam himself put his predilection for violence out there for all the world to see.

Yeah, but the burden of proof isn't on the defense.

So, what the defense will do is just sit and poke holes at the prosecutions theory of the case.

The prosecution is going to claim that Sam was cold blooded killer that planned every aspect of the murders.

 

[PAXIMUS]

IMO, Virginia may not be the best place for this defense tactic, but who knows. I was stunned when the jury fell for Mary Winkler's goofy excuse for shooting her husband in the back. Of course, that trial wasn't held in the Old Dominion.

Thats an important point. Like I said, juries are not stupid BUT if I am the defense attorney I am looking at some of these discussion forums and I am seeing horrorcore etc as a hot button issue that makes people more emotional than logical and thats what I want. I want to play on their emotions and fears and make Sam the victim here and if these discussion forums are representitive of the average jury pool, then clearly this might work.

 

[gxm]

Yeah, but the burden of proof isn't on the defense.

So, what the defense will do is just sit and poke holes at the prosecutions theory of the case.

The prosecution is going to claim that Sam was cold blooded killer that planned every aspect of the murders.

I understand your point. I just think that the prosecution may find that instead of holes, they're poking at a hornet's nest. They will have to tread that ground very lightly IMO.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Yeah, but the burden of proof isn't on the defense.

So, what the defense will do is just sit and poke holes at the prosecutions theory of the case.

The prosecution is going to claim that Sam was cold blooded killer that planned every aspect of the murders.

Right and the defense is going to say, wait a minute Sam is a victim here also, lets look at this music he was involved in and the world he was LURED IN TO by these satanists etc. In my closing I am asking the jury what kind of parents let their kids become involved in this, THIS MIGHT take some of the blame off Sam and put it on the parents.

Trust me I know how that sounds but this is a discussion forum and we are all adults here I assume, discussing legal strategy isnt always pretty. Sometimes you have to do things that you dont want or like to do, its about the client.


But as a reminder why now have SYNIISTER and the DEFENSE ATTORNEY saying HEY YOU DONT KNOW SAM AND WHAT HE WAS GOING THROUGH, WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR WHAT WE HAVE TO TELL YOU BEFORE YOU JUDGE HIM, so this makes me wonder if the defense will try and introduce some sort of violent, abusive home life and past for Sam but again, the point is to make Sam the victim here, Sam must become a victim in the eyes of at least ONE JUROR that is the entire objective and it can be be done by those seasoned in defense work.

 

[gxm]

Thats an important point. Like I said, juries are not stupid BUT if I am the defense attorney I am looking at some of these discussion forums and I am seeing horrorcore etc as a hot button issue that makes people more emotional than logical and thats what I want. I want to play on their emotions and fears and make Sam the victim here and if these discussion forums are representitive of the average jury pool, then clearly this might work.

ITA. But I think the negative emotions that horrorcore arouses will be directed at Sam. He was too deeply involved to be portrayed as some innocent kid, a passive fan/listener. And the "Jesus made me do it" will only further upset any religious jurors. The defense will need to distance Sam from horrorcore and IMO they're pretty much inseparable.

 

[gxm]

Right and the defense is going to say, wait a minute Sam is a victim here also, lets look at this music he was involved in and the world he was LURED IN TO by these satanists etc. In my closing I am asking the jury what kind of parents let their kids become involved in this, THIS MIGHT take some of the blame off Sam and put it on the parents.

Trust me I know how that sounds but this is a discussion forum and we are all adults here I assume, discussing legal strategy isnt always pretty. Sometimes you have to do things that you dont want or like to do, its about the client.


But as a reminder why now have SYNIISTER and the DEFENSE ATTORNEY saying HEY YOU DONT KNOW SAM AND WHAT HE WAS GOING THROUGH, WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR WHAT WE HAVE TO TELL YOU BEFORE YOU JUDGE HIM, so this makes me wonder if the defense will try and introduce some sort of violent, abusive home life and past for Sam but again, the point is to make Sam the victim here, Sam must become a victim in the eyes of at least ONE JUROR that is the entire objective and it can be be done by those seasoned in defense work.

But has any poster, whether aroused or not, taken that viewpoint? I have seen plenty of people come down on the genre and I have also seen blame cast at Emma's parents, but those who are inflamed by the horrorcore connection do not appear to have any sympathy for Sam. IMO, he will be seen as a willing and eager participant by the jurors, if the public response so far is any indication.

 

[PAXIMUS]

ITA. But I think the negative emotions that horrorcore arouses will be directed at Sam. He was too deeply involved to be portrayed as some innocent kid, a passive fan/listener. And the "Jesus made me do it" will only further upset any religious jurors. The defense will need to distance Sam from horrorcore and IMO they're pretty much inseparable.

I agree, he wasnt thinking when he said Jesus made him do it, come on Sam this is the freaking Bible Belt, that wont sit well with those southern baptist jurors.

I really dont like his chances either but then again we dont know what the defense may be sitting on.

 

[sonicGG]

We also did some experiments where we could make the subject act as if a virtual object was part of their body. This idea is used in most violent video games and is one of the reasons Sam's video game habit might have more to do with this crime than horrorcore. FWIW.

I would say it is a synergistic thing but it is a very good Mcluhanesque point that the medium is much more influential than the message. I think there are very good arguments to be made regarding video games creating a disconnect from reality. BTW, I used Laberges methods pretty seriously for a while and although I had very few lucid dreaming experiences it was quite revelatory.

And, I assume you have heard of this possible dream recorder?

 

[PAXIMUS]

But has any poster, whether aroused or not, taken that viewpoint? I have seen plenty of people come down on the genre and I have also seen blame cast at Emma's parents, but those who are inflamed by the horrorcore connection do not appear to have any sympathy for Sam. IMO, he will be seen as a willing and eager participant by the jurors, if the public response so far is any indication.

The one time I did see sympathy for Sam was when Shrim is brought in to the discussion. Its possible the defense could put Shrim and SKR on trial and suggest a cult like grip by Shrim on his followers and introduce some of DMs work about Shrim hiding messages in his music.

Maybe too fanciful?

More likely: Sam was hurting because of parents recent divorice and mom moving out, was fighting with sister (he called the cops on her the day before he left for VA) and lost it in a jealous rage, this wont get an acquittal and the defense may realize ANY aquittal is impossible and simply go for the defense that best gets the death penalty off the table, the above may do that.

 

[annmarie62]

http://www.killmusick.com/km1/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18946 How sick Raz is.. how could Em or Mel look up to someone like this?? it blows my mind.. nothing about her is "cool". please make sure your kids are not around when u view the link.

OMG!! I was expecting pics showing fake blood or whatever else these posers play with, but these pics were beyond DISGUSTING!! This girl makes me wanna puke for weeks...:sick:

 

[gxm]

I agree, he wasnt thinking when he said Jesus made him do it, come on Sam this is the freaking Bible Belt, that wont sit well with those southern baptist jurors.

I really dont like his chances either but then again we dont know what the defense may be sitting on.

Exactly. When I read that he'd said that, my heart sank because IMO the kid had sealed his fate.

 

[gxm]

The one time I did see sympathy for Sam was when Shrim is brought in to the discussion. Its possible the defense could put Shrim and SKR on trial and suggest a cult like grip by Shrim on his followers and introduce some of DMs work about Shrim hiding messages in his music.

Maybe too fanciful?

More likely: Sam was hurting because of parents recent divorice and mom moving out, was fighting with sister (he called the cops on her the day before he left for VA) and lost it in a jealous rage, this wont get an aquittal and the defense may realize ANY aquittal is impossible and simply go for the defense that best gets the death penalty off the table, the above may do that.

ITA. The defense needs to get DP off the table. That's Sam's best case scenario IMO. Hopefully his attorneys will have a good feel for jury sentiment and can walk the finest of fine lines on the horrorcore angle.

 

[sonicGG]

Interesting speculation on what the defense will do for an angle but unless there was deep parental abuse, I doubt that will fly. The family just seems like your typical dysfunctional American unit with the mom just letting Sam shut himself up in his room for endless hours and his dad maybe encouraging Sam's music interests. The blaming of SKR may go a little ways but unless there was some direct Manson-like connection, I don't think that will fly.
The defense is doubly screwed if Sam actually did take videos during the ordeal...

 

[annmarie62]

YouTube- Raz shows passed out girls a good time Raz a week ago.

YouTube- VECT, Razakel, & SickTanicK In The Studio VECT, Razakel, & SickTanicK In The Studio. LOL

HAHAHA, oh Jesus, do they SUCK!! And all their pathetic acolytes post these worshipful quotes underneath! ZERO talent; my 4th grader son has better "flow"! No wonder they live in their own little rarefied world, no one else could keep from laffing in their stupid faces. I am getting sick of their abuse of Jesus, too. They are entitled to their own beliefs, of course, but the way they attack other people/belief systems is not only immature, it's boring and played-out... just like their "music." Black Sabbath, AC/DC, etc. alreadydid it better 30 years ago. :curses:

 

[PAXIMUS]

Interesting speculation on what the defense will do for an angle but unless there was deep parental abuse, I doubt that will fly. The family just seems like your typical dysfunctional American unit with the mom just letting Sam shut himself up in his room for endless hours and his dad maybe encouraging Sam's music interests. The blaming of SKR may go a little ways but unless there was some direct Manson-like connection, I don't think that will fly.
The defense is doubly screwed if Sam actually did take videos during the ordeal...

I am afraid you may be right. All my above speculation is of course grasping at straws since Sam's fate is largely sealed and at this point as stated above, the best defense may be the defense that gets the death penalty off the table and simply forgets about any possibility of an acquittal. Just trying to save Sam's life will be difficult as it is, let alone get him acquitted.

 

[NativeGirl]

YouTube- Razakel w/ Smallz One & Lyssa Cer OH (UGLYCROSSEYEDGREENFAKEHAIREDHOEZ) Strictly for the Wicked
speed the clip to time 2:02 Shows Razakel on stage and her putting the mic in front of Emma's(Ragd0LL) Face acting like the mic is a male private part it seems.


YouTube- Razakel w/ Sicktanick MURDER POTION Stricktly for thw Wicked Fest
speed the clip to 0:49 Razakel touches Emma(Ragd0LL) on her head..

 

[PAXIMUS]

YouTube- Razakel w/ Smallz One & Lyssa Cer OH (UGLYCROSSEYEDGREENFAKEHAIREDHOEZ) Strictly for the Wicked
speed the clip to time 2:02 Shows Razakel on stage and her putting the mic in front of Emma's(Ragd0LL) Face acting like the mic is a male private part it seems.


YouTube- Razakel w/ Sicktanick MURDER POTION Stricktly for thw Wicked Fest
speed the clip to 0:49 Razakel touches Emma(Ragd0LL) on her head..

They really think they are big superstars. They are about the most untalented people I have ever seen and I have been around a lot of hacks in my life.

 

[tapu]

Clearly the demonic possession angle is the defense's best bet.

(Hey, and we just happen to have an expert witness somewhere around here.... :wink

 

[dangrsmind]

As someone in his relative age range who knows a lot of drug users, abusers, sellers and the like - you can usually get a pretty good idea of a drug just by having it described by you. Trust me, when you go to buy pills you know what it is you're getting and whether or not it's what it should be.. no testing required. The markings, color, size, etc are usually pretty clear indicators, not that many popular pills overlap characteristics.

I doubt he was dropping acid.. doesn't seem like the typel ol

This is somewhat pointless debate, but I grew up in Berkeley in the 70s. My friends throw raves. I've handed out DanceSafe (no longer existent BTW) literature at parties. I've seen all sorts of chemicals passed off as things they weren't. Know your sources, test your pills or (best bet) don't do drugs.