VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #3

[AndresEscobar]

I don't know where you're from Andres, but I'm from Virginia. And I've got a bad feeling for Sam's chances. I'd prefer to see him get life but I think he'll get the DP. Just gut, not logic.

We are in agreement at this point that, without further facts, the biggest hurdle the defense faces is the "Jesus" remark. It will be sheer brilliance if his attorneys can spin that one in Sam's favor.

I'm from Chicago. I think that if I were to do anything illegal, I wouldn't do it in most southern states, including Virginia.

 

[gxm]

Regarding speculation about the women being asleep when attacked:

The female victims – 18-year-old Melanie Wells, 16-year old Emma Niederbrock and her mother, Debra S. Kelley, were struck while asleep or in an otherwise defenseless position, the sources said. There is no evidence at this point of any sexual assaults.

10/23 source link:

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-farmville-murder-update,0,1981283.story

 

[maunsapt]

I cannot believe Sicktanick is coming out with a new record.

If Sicktanick was smart, he'd be talking to a lawyer right now.

or maybe its a way to pay for the attorney fees.... jmo

 

[AndresEscobar]

or maybe its a way to pay for the attorney fees.... jmo

Then he has a terrible attorney. First thing he should do is be quiet and lay low.

 

[dangrsmind]

Then he has a terrible attorney. First thing he should do is be quiet and lay low.

No Satanic business man worth is his salt would do this. He's said he's going to get even more brutal and I believe him. Also, FWIW, he's dropping another CD, Chapter 2, on January 22 next year.

As far as legal liability, IANAL but I have to disagree here. Isn't this just back to a "music made him do it" lawsuit? How many of these have there been now? Does anyone besides me remember the Judas Priest subliminal command case?

Melanie attended SickTanick's event but she was alive when she left. To my knowledge there were no incidents at the event and all of the tragic events took place much later at a private residence in a different state. There is security in evidence at the show and apart from the all ages and alcohol issues we've discussed previously, it seems like the event was safe and legal.

 

[NativeGirl]

just something i came across from http://z4.invisionfree.com/Juggalo/index.php?showtopic=36004&st=0

 

[AndresEscobar]

just something i came across from http://z4.invisionfree.com/Juggalo/index.php?showtopic=36004&st=0

I read in the recent reports that the bodies were bludgeoned beyond recognition but not dismembered. This is notable because dismembering a dead body is a class x felony in a lot states.

 

[AndresEscobar]

No Satanic business man worth is his salt would do this. He's said he's going to get even more brutal and I believe him. Also, FWIW, he's dropping another CD, Chapter 2, on January 22 next year.

As far as legal liability, IANAL but I have to disagree here. Isn't this just back to a "music made him do it" lawsuit? How many of these have there been now? Does anyone besides me remember the Judas Priest subliminal command case?

Melanie attended SickTanick's event but she was alive when she left. To my knowledge there were no incidents at the event and all of the tragic events took place much later at a private residence in a different state. There is security in evidence at the show and apart from the all ages and alcohol issues we've discussed previously, it seems like the event was safe and legal.

I'm not suggesting he's criminally liable. Remember, though, civil suits carry a much lower burden of proof (by preponderance of the evidence). I've seen him flash his cash on youtube -- I wasn't impressed.

Acting like a jack*** isn't going to help him save face: either to the people in his community that feel like he's done something wrong or the people like us following the case that find him shady to begin with. And I realize acting in bad taste is his business, but come on.

 

[Heroine]

It makes me feel better that you said that -- I was feeling pretty silly when I had the same thought a few days ago... :blush:

I totally agree! You all have become familiar faces to me and each and everyone of you bring a different approach to this investigation and I'm proud to be part of this conversation. :dance:
Yeah it'll be kinda sad when "Syko Sam" is convicted, we'll just have to find something else we all find interesting to post about.

 

[LoveVA]

I do agree that I do not think there is any way Sam will come out of this alive. "Jesus made me do it" was bad, but you cannot viciously murder a preacher, a professor, and two teen girls in Virginia and ever expect to live. There is just no way. I don't know how he can really get a "fair" trial here. This crime has shaken everybody up really bad and people around here are screaming for his head. I would think there must have to be a change on venue to another part of the state.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I do agree that I do not think there is any way Sam will come out of this alive. "Jesus made me do it" was bad, but you cannot viciously murder a preacher, a professor, and two teen girls in Virginia and ever expect to live. There is just no way. I don't know how he can really get a "fair" trial here. This crime has shaken everybody up really bad and people around here are screaming for his head. I would think there must have to be a change on venue to another part of the state.

I've been thinking about the venue a lot and I think it would be borderline malpractice not to file a motion for change of venue.

 

[blouAngel]

Well, the defense will have to argue against premeditation to save Sam's life. And, while premeditation is strongest for the father, all they have to prove is he didn't premeditate three of the murders to save his life.

There has been an awful lot of speculation about Sam waiting in the house for Mr. Niederbrick, but I really can't see any way he could have known he was coming. It was a trip that followed a call from Mel's mom. Unless she had told Sam she would call Emma's dad and have him see what was going on, or Mr. Niederbrock called to say he was on his way, there's really no way Sam could have anticipated it, let alone sat in wait for him in particular. If I've missed something that says one of them told Sam he would come by, please point it out if you can find it.

I would expect Sam to have considered the need to kill anyone else who who stopped by and discovered what had happened in the house (trying to avoid declaring his guilt pre-trial). Since Mr. Niederbrock was Emma's father, it was probably clear that he wasn't going to leave without getting some answers about what was going on. I think it's very likely he had his own key. The parents were divorced, but he was a minister, which seems like someone you could probably trust with your keys, especially if he's your daughter's father and might need them in an emergency.

 

[blouAngel]

I'm from Chicago. I think that if I were to do anything illegal, I wouldn't do it in most southern states, including Virginia.

I live in VA, and have for 30+ years. I've had my share of encounters, and actually I've found most LE folks I've dealt with to be pretty cool. State Police are the most professional, but small town police can be pretty easy going. I'd say Sam's experiences with the police go a long way towards demonstrating that.

Now, if you're black or hispanic and I'm not, it might be wise to be a little more cautious about what parts of Virginia you choose to break the law in. Same is no doubt true if you're a blasphemous devil worshipper and facing a murder trial. A change of venue to Richmond would be smart if Sam's lawyer can swing it.

If I'd been convicted of something and were doing time, I'd much rather be in a small town Virginian jail than one anywhere near Chicago. (Not that being convicted of murder will get you a small town jail, but anyway) When I think of jail in the city, I remember my experience on the D.C. beltway about 25 years ago while on the way to a concert. We were passing a pipe around and got pulled by a D.C. cop. D.C. was the murder capital of the U.S. at the time. I was terrified of the thought that we were headed to a city jail on a Friday night, but loveboat (PCP) was the big problem up there at the time and we were just a few white college kids with a small amount of weed. We always suspected the cop caught a nice buzz after he let us go. I have often wondered how that would have played out if we'd been black kids.

 

[CharlieChan]

Hello--I'm new here. Long time lurker. In his bio, Mr Shrim states that he grew up without a mother and father. In 1985 there was a pretty high profile murder case in Albuquerque where 22 year old Jennifer Lynn Shirm (not Shrim) was found murdered. She died from blunt force trauma to the head. It was thought to be meth related. She was a single mom and left behind a son that was a year or so old. That would make him about 25 today. Upon searching Veromi.net for Shirm's in NM--there is a 25 year old Andreas Shirm listed. In his listing is also included (as a relative) the name Jessie Shirm. She is one of Jennifer Shirm's sisters. If Mr Shrim is that son it could possibly shed some light on why his attitudes and beliefs (?) might be a little rough around the edges.

 

[claudicici]

...wow,I wonder if that's true...it would make a lot of sense

 

[CharlieChan]

OK-- Here is a link that ties the name Andres (that's how they spell it)Shirm to the murdered woman-- http://www.abqjournal.com/cgi-bin/d...ournal.com/news/metro/517014metro12-01-06.htm

 

[tapu]

Well. I guess we should expect nothing less from Charlie Chan.


Welcome!

Welcome also to LoveVA.

 

[dangrsmind]

I'm not suggesting he's criminally liable. Remember, though, civil suits carry a much lower burden of proof (by preponderance of the evidence). I've seen him flash his cash on youtube -- I wasn't impressed.

Acting like a jack*** isn't going to help him save face: either to the people in his community that feel like he's done something wrong or the people like us following the case that find him shady to begin with. And I realize acting in bad taste is his business, but come on.

Andres,

With all due respect, although IANAL, as a business person I have a fair amount of experience suing people and being sued. Shrim is NOT a good target for a civil suit since he has no money. I doubt he even owns his house, and IIRC someone stated here that he doesn't own a car. What are you going to do make him sell his occult library? Attach proceeds from future sales of his CDs? Put a lien on his stash?

SKR and Killmusick appear to be sole proprietorships so it's not like there's some cash rich corporation or wealthy individual to go after here. Pursuing a civil suit will therefore cost more than can ever be collected from Shrim.

Plus the suit would arguably end up as a replay of the Judas Priest case.

Low probability of victory plus cash poor target equals no point in a civil lawsuit.

And even in the unlikely event that a suit succeeds, it will be impossible to collect anything.

IMO. IANAL.

 

[dangrsmind]

There has been an awful lot of speculation about Sam waiting in the house for Mr. Niederbrick, but I really can't see any way he could have known he was coming. It was a trip that followed a call from Mel's mom. Unless she had told Sam she would call Emma's dad and have him see what was going on, or Mr. Niederbrock called to say he was on his way, there's really no way Sam could have anticipated it, let alone sat in wait for him in particular. If I've missed something that says one of them told Sam he would come by, please point it out if you can find it.

I would expect Sam to have considered the need to kill anyone else who who stopped by and discovered what had happened in the house (trying to avoid declaring his guilt pre-trial). Since Mr. Niederbrock was Emma's father, it was probably clear that he wasn't going to leave without getting some answers about what was going on. I think it's very likely he had his own key. The parents were divorced, but he was a minister, which seems like someone you could probably trust with your keys, especially if he's your daughter's father and might need them in an emergency.

We also don't know if he called the house. He's dead and so he can't tell us and Sam's not talking.

 

[dangrsmind]

Hello--I'm new here. Long time lurker. In his bio, Mr Shrim states that he grew up without a mother and father. In 1985 there was a pretty high profile murder case in Albuquerque where 22 year old Jennifer Lynn Shirm (not Shrim) was found murdered. She died from blunt force trauma to the head. It was thought to be meth related. She was a single mom and left behind a son that was a year or so old. That would make him about 25 today. Upon searching Veromi.net for Shirm's in NM--there is a 25 year old Andreas Shirm listed. In his listing is also included (as a relative) the name Jessie Shirm. She is one of Jennifer Shirm's sisters. If Mr Shrim is that son it could possibly shed some light on why his attitudes and beliefs (?) might be a little rough around the edges.

Very interesting.

"SickTanicK Tha Souless grew up in a middle class home without a mother or a father, often being mentally abused by his peers SickTanicK Tha Souless was turned away by the system of contemporary life at a early age. Rejected by public school systems, churches, and other forms of socially acceptable activities he found a love for music."