VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #4

[gxm]

When it's mentioned, ALL of the SWs report that the three women's bodies were discovered first. This makes the most sense to me because the worst odor would be coming from Emma's bedroom and LE would clear the main level first. (I guess the pastor being discovered first was yet another fact the media reported incorrectly.)

SW #2, page 3, paragraph 3, bolding by me:

The Farmville Police Department responded to 505 First Avenue, Farmville, Virginia on Friday, September 18, 2009 in response to a welfare check. Upon arrival, the officers noted the smell of decomposition and the presence of flies inside and outside the residence. Upon entry, the officers found three bodies which appeared to be the victims of foul play. A search warrant was obtained for the residence and was executed on September 18, 2009 at 5:25 PM.

 

[dangrsmind]

I do not think a gun was involved. Although this is a country town with lots of hunters. A gunshot would be noticed or maybe not. Sam is lucky he did not pick one of the families who are into hunting. My friend yesterday walks in the house with a sidearm strapped to his side. Scared the crap out of me . Then we go to his truck where he has enough Ammo, rifle, and knives to start a little war. We go to eat lunch at Ruby Tuesday he casually lays his side arm on the dash with not a second thought. Just his level of comfort was amazing. Alot of people have guns in every corner of there home. I bought him lunch the *advertiser censored* got steak. ahaha Anyways if he had a gun it would of explained how he could control four people?

This is why I have continued to be mystified by the fact that no one seemed to recognize the odor...

 

[gxm]

I'm baffled by the GSR too. No guns or ammo is listed in the SW's so it's probably safe to say there were none in the house. The only thing I can think of is that LE is covering their butts, perhaps to counter a self defense story from Sam?

 

[Wes]

I wonder if that's true, but of course it might be. He has done a decent job of promoting himself as an expert in certain circles so maybe this is not very surprising.

"Late Friday afternoon I received a phone call from investigators in Farmville letting me know that they are at the scene of a homicide. A multiple homicide," said Don Rimer, a former Virginia Beach Detective.

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_...ach_occult_expert_heads_to_farmville_20090924

As far as the occult angle, have you read my postings? lol

I'm all for an investigation of any aspect of this case including the occult aspect, but occult investigations require a bit of a sense of humor that I don't see in Rimer. Also, frankly the Farmville PD paying Rimer to tell them that upside down crosses are a Satanic symbol is both a waste of time and money. Unless there was some significant occult related symbology at the scene, i.e. a sigil or magic circle indicating performance of a ritual, I don't see where this surface analysis leads. And if there was such a ritual display at the scene, Rimer is unqualified to assess its true meaning or importance beyond these same surface level descriptions.

Instead of listening to Rimer, use Google. You'll learn more.

I guess in police circles Rimer is an "expert". He may not be an "expert" in the sense that someone who has actively been involved in the occult would be - but probably has far more knowledge of it than the average LE officer.

If Rimer is just in it for the money, then yeah, that would be a joke. But if he's interested in raising awareness then I have no problem with him.

From googling him and reading comments about him, I'm finding that most of those who don't like him are those who don't like Christian fundamentalists and/or those who are involved in the occult themselves and see themselves as being experts and scoff at an "amateur expert" like Rimer.

 

[gxm]

(respectfully snipped)

If Rimer is just in it for the money, then yeah, that would be a joke. But if he's interested in raising awareness then I have no problem with him.

From googling him and reading comments about him, I'm finding that most of those who don't like him are those who don't like Christian fundamentalists and/or those who are involved in the occult themselves and see themselves as being experts and scoff at an "amateur expert" like Rimer.

And, I'm guessing that most of the folks who don't scoff at him are Christians. That sword cuts both ways.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I do not think a gun was involved. Although this is a country town with lots of hunters. A gunshot would be noticed or maybe not. Sam is lucky he did not pick one of the families who are into hunting. My friend yesterday walks in the house with a sidearm strapped to his side. Scared the crap out of me . Then we go to his truck where he has enough Ammo, rifle, and knives to start a little war. We go to eat lunch at Ruby Tuesday he casually lays his side arm on the dash with not a second thought. Just his level of comfort was amazing. Alot of people have guns in every corner of there home. I bought him lunch the *advertiser censored* got steak. ahaha Anyways if he had a gun it would of explained how he could control four people?

There's no gun on the warrants, nor any indication a gun was used. So I'm going with no guns involved and their hands were wiped as part of a procedural forensic analysis

 

[dangrsmind]

"Late Friday afternoon I received a phone call from investigators in Farmville letting me know that they are at the scene of a homicide. A multiple homicide," said Don Rimer, a former Virginia Beach Detective.

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_...ach_occult_expert_heads_to_farmville_20090924



I guess in police circles Rimer is an "expert". He may not be an "expert" in the sense that someone who has actively been involved in the occult would be - but probably has far more knowledge of it than the average LE officer.

If Rimer is just in it for the money, then yeah, that would be a joke. But if he's interested in raising awareness then I have no problem with him.

From googling him and reading comments about him, I'm finding that most of those who don't like him are those who don't like Christian fundamentalists and/or those who are involved in the occult themselves and see themselves as being experts and scoff at an "amateur expert" like Rimer.

Well, that's very interesting. But let me ask you this.

If you examine Rimer's presentation, do you see a single reference to the word "sigil"? No you do not. Does he mention gematria? No he does not.

Sigils and talismanic magic are employed here in much of the SKR materials. The CD Doctrines of the Damned: Chapter 1 has such a device on its cover for example. And SickTanick has openly stated that he uses gematria to encode messages in his lyrics and music. This occult aspects of this case are not as simple as simply noting a few upside down pentagrams on Emma's posters and then implying Satanism was involved here.

IMO, no serious review of the occult aspect of this case can be performed without understanding these two things. Just as a couple of examples of where Rimer's expertise falls short in this case.

The girls were listening to Satanic horrorcore music from SKR, WIR, and other underground record labels. Hello? So we also know that Satanism was involved in their lifestyles, this is not very earth shattering news. For example the girls listed various interests on her profile pages. Also these girls didn't just sit at home listening to horrorcore, they went to shows and were in essence what we used call "groupies" back in the day. Hence all the pix with the SKR "big wigs" and performers. You don't need to pay any self appointed occult "expert" to tell you that Satanism is involved here.

Instead you have me to do it for free

 

[ziggy]

GSR analysis routine because they do not, as of yet, know the cause of death and all evidence has not been collected. Probably a SOP.

 

[AndresEscobar]

(Respectfully snipped)

I guess in police circles Rimer is an "expert". He may not be an "expert" in the sense that someone who has actively been involved in the occult would be - but probably has far more knowledge of it than the average LE officer.

If Rimer is just in it for the money, then yeah, that would be a joke. But if he's interested in raising awareness then I have no problem with him.

From googling him and reading comments about him, I'm finding that most of those who don't like him are those who don't like Christian fundamentalists and/or those who are involved in the occult themselves and see themselves as being experts and scoff at an "amateur expert" like Rimer.

So, are you arguing that because we find his "expertise" dubious, lacking, and opportunistic, we're unfounded in criticizing him?

 

[PAXIMUS]

I have no problem with someone who wants to spread awareness regarding occults. But if he's just trying to make a buck off a horrible crime like this, then that's another story. But I do think I saw where the seminar was 'free'.

As for his 'expertise', I'd have to research him more. But I'm sure much of his presentation is rather basic and probably just touches the surface.

The question is, what kind of awareness is he spreading? Is he really teaching people about the occult and what it is or is he spreading hysteria, because, from his own Christian fundamentalist point of view, he is unable to understand that NOT everything occult related has to do with darkness, demons and that which is evil. In fact most of what is really considered to be 'occult' is not dark or evil in any way.

Buddhism is certainly considered an occult philosophy and Star Wars is an occult film. Are these things dark, evil and something to be feared?

As you may or may not know, occult simply means 'hidden'(as in existing beyond the 5 known human senses) and a student of it is one who seeks 'knowledge of the hidden.' In this sense any religion that seeks out gods, angels, demons etc is occultic by definition, even Christianity, most especially any variety of Christianity that puts an emphasis on "The Holy Spirit," speaking in tongues and performing baptisms, all of which are ancient 'occult rituals,' which themselves even predate Christianity.

My point is, occult science/philosophy is not a bad thing, it can be used by people with bad intentions but thats true of anything isnt it?

I think people like him serve to simply confuse people more rather than educate them and raise awarness about what occult science/philosophy really is.


And for the record I have nothing against Christian fundamentalists, however, it is because they are fundamentalist that they are unable to understand things like occult science and philosophy. Religious fundamentalism does not leave much room for tolerance of other belief systems by its very nature of being religious fundamentalism. Rimer is a Christian Fundamentalist and therefore I suggest it would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for him to really speak obejctively and raise awarness about what the occult really is. In fact I have heard him refer in general sweeping terms to the occult as "devil worship." I can assure you as a Buddhist I am not worshiping any devils yet Buddhism is very much an occult science and philosophy.



ETA: I dont think the occult played any role in this crime personally but I have no problem with looking in to that possibility. In all my years involved in occult study I have experienced things that defy all reasonable and logical explanation, so sure, it is certainly possible something like demonic possession or a ritual gone bad could be the reason this happened but I dont think Rimer would be the person who would be able to uncover that, in fact anything short of flying a Shaman/witch doctor in from deep in the Amazon rain forest probably wouldnt result in us getting any answers.

Further I do not consider Sam or Shrim to be 'occultists' as I have said before. IMO the perfect model of an 'occultist' would be the character Yoda in the film Star Wars. He would be what is certainly considered a master or adept and his Jedi students 'initiates.' The reason I say that is because Yoda had a knowledge of both paths, right and left, light and dark, and understood the importance of a BALANCE BETWEEN THE TWO forces as opposed to simply dabbling in to one side or the other which is what hacks like Shrim are in to, from the evidence I have seen. These are not occultists, they are idiots playing with fire with no regard or respect as to the consequences of such.

 

[AndresEscobar]

So, are you arguing that because we find his "expertise" dubious, lacking, and opportunistic, we're unfounded in criticizing him?

I don't mean to put you on the spot, Wes, but our critisism has nothing to do with our involvement in the occult or dislike of christian fundamentalism. It has to do with disliking people who misrepresent themselves as experts to further ulterior motives.

 

[ziggy]

Edited to add that I do take issue with his Yin/Yang symbol as being a red flag or something.

OK well I'm going out on a limb here and saying that after reading Rimer's course description etc. I don't see anything wrong with what he does and as Dangrsmind and Paximus have demonstrated, being an expert in the occult might take several lifetimes to achieve because it seems to be like Photoshop, more levels to it than you can ever discover.

That being the case, his simplistic views are easier for the average joe to digest. I can easily imagine the cops finding 3 anhilated corpses in a bedroom filled with satanic images and probably SKR necklaces on bodies with upside down crosses...well you get the picture. They call the guy and then likely realize later is was the teenage daughter's little sub-culture thing and work from that angle.

He certainly can't impart every angle of the occult in a seminar, nor has he gone as far as he probably should in his research, however it seems plausible that the knowledge he imparts to those who are completely clueless to the various degrees of satanism or occult followings is substantial enough to bring more awareness and then they can take it upon themselves, if so inclined, to dig deeper and google the stuff.

We've been critical of parents not doing their jobs and yet we want to criticize parents for trying to become aware of teenage dabbling. I think the dabbling is like dangr's reference to drugs; some can't handle it and it becomes more than a fad or phase.

I will applaud parents for attempting to shield their children from harmful outside influences and better for them to be a little paranoid than with their heads in the sand.

As for the community, I'm sure they are freaked out by this murder in their safe little town. They have a need to know now. They want to be informed, not ignorant. Will Rimer's talk give them anything? It may. It might not give them everythingbut it could make them feel a little more in control, which can reduce anxiety.

Parents may at least sit up and take notice of some things that may have flown right over their heads before and it could make a kid realize he/she is loved and cared about, even if it's a pain in the *advertiser censored* that his/her parents are now paranoid.

 

[ziggy]

Wes: I think the criticism is that Rimer groups into the "occult" teachings which don't fit along the lines of satanism or dark magick, such as his yin/yang symbol gouped in with 666.

Fundamentalist Christians, while I love em, are very narrow in their thinking. I would say I'm a Christian but Chritians would say I am not!!! I mentioned to my FC sister that I really liked Joel Osteen even though I've been sickened by televangelists in the past, period. His messages seem very enlightened and, I guess, generic, like they could come from Tony Robbins or The Secret (I didn't mention those two things to her though) and her response was that he wasn't Christian enough, he was bordering on "new agey stuff"! FC are even critical of this guy. Amazing.

So that's why the FC angle is frustrating. While trying to do a good thing, they are just a bit overboard on what they want to lump into the "occult" and perhaps ignorant of bigger fish they should be trying to fry.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Wes: I think the criticism is that Rimer groups into the "occult" teachings which don't fit along the lines of satanism or dark magick, such as his yin/yang symbol gouped in with 666.

Fundamentalist Christians, while I love em, are very narrow in their thinking. I would say I'm a Christian but Chritians would say I am not!!! I mentioned to my FC sister that I really liked Joel Osteen even though I've been sickened by televangelists in the past, period. His messages seem very enlightened and, I guess, generic, like they could come from Tony Robbins or The Secret (I didn't mention those two things to her though) and her response was that he wasn't Christian enough, he was bordering on "new agey stuff"! FC are even critical of this guy. Amazing.

So that's why the FC angle is frustrating. While trying to do a good thing, they are just a bit overboard on what they want to lump into the "occult" and perhaps ignorant of bigger fish they should be trying to fry.

Well said.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I don't mean to put you on the spot, Wes, but our critisism has nothing to do with our involvement in the occult or dislike of christian fundamentalism. It has to do with disliking people who misrepresent themselves as experts to further ulterior motives.

As DM pointed out Rimer likely wants to stir everyone up and get them drunk on Jesus so they will push the police to look more at the occult connections in this case and hire Rimer to provide his 'expert testimony' during the trial.

I am certain Rimer is a decent fellow and isnt out to squeeze every last buck he can out of this case, but I am also sure this is likely how he makes his living so of course he wants to get paid if the opportunity is there. I also think he probably believes in the crap he teaches even though he doesnt know any more than you or I would if we were to spend a week reading about the occult and occult symbolism on the internet.

Instead of Rimer telling parents that they should be on the lookout for their kids wearing black clothing or pentagrams around their neck he should tell them to spend more time with their kids doing homework and getting to know them and helping them develop their own identity in a healthy way. Sorry to disappoint but it isnt the black clothes, the music or the pentagrams that lead kids astray, those kids are looking for someone to accept and support them and if the parents wont do it and we live in a world today where most are too busy to, then someone else will and unfortunately it may be someone like Shrim whose intention is to profit off the kids confusion and insecurities instead of helping them find their way.

 

[Wes]

Well, that's very interesting. But let me ask you this.

If you examine Rimer's presentation, do you see a single reference to the word "sigil"? No you do not. Does he mention gematria? No he does not.

Sigils and talismanic magic are employed here in much of the SKR materials. The CD Doctrines of the Damned: Chapter 1 has such a device on its cover for example. And SickTanick has openly stated that he uses gematria to encode messages in his lyrics and music. This occult aspects of this case are not as simple as simply noting a few upside down pentagrams on Emma's posters and then implying Satanism was involved here.

IMO, no serious review of the occult aspect of this case can be performed without understanding these two things. Just as a couple of examples of where Rimer's expertise falls short in this case.

The girls were listening to Satanic horrorcore music from SKR, WIR, and other underground record labels. Hello? So we also know that Satanism was involved in their lifestyles, this is not very earth shattering news. For example the girls listed various interests on her profile pages. Also these girls didn't just sit at home listening to horrorcore, they went to shows and were in essence what we used call "groupies" back in the day. Hence all the pix with the SKR "big wigs" and performers. You don't need to pay any self appointed occult "expert" to tell you that Satanism is involved here.

Instead you have me to do it for free

I do find it odd they felt the need to call him in. The LE came upon a gruesome crime scene. I'm sure much of what they found as far as 'symbols' were probably items and posters that Emma possessed herself. No doubt seeing the horrific crime scene and these items made them call in someone with knowledge of the occult. Of course much of what the found turned out to be items Emma owned. I'd be curious to know what else they found in regards to this that Sam staged, wrote, etc - if anything.

 

[Wes]

So, are you arguing that because we find his "expertise" dubious, lacking, and opportunistic, we're unfounded in criticizing him?

I'm sure there are various levels of "expertise". He must have some, at least in police circles, for them to consult him. That still doesn't mean he's not open to criticism.

As far as the case goes, I don't see it necessary to call him in or any other so called expert on the subject. Regardless of the influence of the occult on Sam or the girls, the evidence is overwhelming that he bludgeoned these four and in a premeditated fashion.

 

[Wes]

Wes: I think the criticism is that Rimer groups into the "occult" teachings which don't fit along the lines of satanism or dark magick, such as his yin/yang symbol gouped in with 666.

Fundamentalist Christians, while I love em, are very narrow in their thinking. I would say I'm a Christian but Chritians would say I am not!!! I mentioned to my FC sister that I really liked Joel Osteen even though I've been sickened by televangelists in the past, period. His messages seem very enlightened and, I guess, generic, like they could come from Tony Robbins or The Secret (I didn't mention those two things to her though) and her response was that he wasn't Christian enough, he was bordering on "new agey stuff"! FC are even critical of this guy. Amazing.

So that's why the FC angle is frustrating. While trying to do a good thing, they are just a bit overboard on what they want to lump into the "occult" and perhaps ignorant of bigger fish they should be trying to fry.

I agree that Fundamentalist Christians are narrow in their thinking. But it's due to a strict belief in the Bible. The Bible states that Jesus is the "only way" and that "narrow" is the road that leads to heaven. I know many want to hear that there are many ways or that there is only a heaven and no hell or there is neither. But if one believes the Bible, then it states there are both and there's only one way to get to heaven. And I fully understand why that message isn't popular with many.

As for Osteen, I have heard the same criticisms. The feel good, do good, treat people good, inspirational messages are all...well...good. But the Bible also teaches that good deeds alone isn't enough. But yeah, it is more popular to hear than fire and brimstone "narrow-minded" messages.

And, if anyone hasn't guessed yet, yeah, I would be considered a "fundie Christian". I hope no one holds that against me. :angel:

 

[ziggy]

Although the prosecution probably has all they need, I'm thinking they will want to introduce Sam's music and his alter ego to go to state of mind or something. I analogize it to finding borderline child *advertiser censored* (as introduced in the Michael Jackson case) in mass quantity in the home of an alleged child sex offender. It could come in.

There is no insanity defense that will hold up, so I don't see how making Sam look like a lust-for-murder satanist can hurt - the jury will despise him. And they won't find it so hard to believe he would use a hammer and maul and do the hideous deed.

I holding out on the belief that Sam did something extra there with the bodies for all those days. When I think of Sharpie, I think of writing on people; on skin, or on walls. Have you never sharpied someone who passed out? Ok, you are a nicer person than I am. Why collect only sharpies? There was writing in the spiral notebook - they collected sketch books or something from a chest in Emma's room...I won't be shocked if Sam wrote weird stuff on the walls or on the bodies.

 

[ziggy]

I agree that Fundamentalist Christians are narrow in their thinking. But it's due to a strict belief in the Bible. The Bible states that Jesus is the "only way" and that "narrow" is the road that leads to heaven. I know many want to hear that there are many ways or that there is only a heaven and no hell or there is neither. But if one believes the Bible, then it states there are both and there's only one way to get to heaven. And I fully understand why that message isn't popular with many.

As for Osteen, I have heard the same criticisms. The feel good, do good, treat people good, inspirational messages are all...well...good. But the Bible also teaches that good deeds alone isn't enough. But yeah, it is more popular to hear than fire and brimstone "narrow-minded" messages.

And, if anyone hasn't guessed yet, yeah, I would be considered a "fundie Christian". I hope no one holds that against me. :angel:

Hey fundie, no worries I have no problem with the belief that there is only one path to heaven and not many (as I believe) it's just that all other beliefs get grouped into the bad category and I don't think that's entirely fair or correct. I have FCs in my family galore! We also have a few Jews and a few Muslims so tell me our family reunion isn't quite interesting.