VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #4

[AndresEscobar]

I have no problem with someone who wants to spread awareness regarding occults. But if he's just trying to make a buck off a horrible crime like this, then that's another story. But I do think I saw where the seminar was 'free'.

As for his 'expertise', I'd have to research him more. But I'm sure much of his presentation is rather basic and probably just touches the surface.

No one like this does a "free" seminar unless they're selling books.

 

[Wes]

No one like this does a "free" seminar unless they're selling books.

I'm sure there's material to buy, but no one is obligated to.

 

[ziggy]

I've read a few, and still have several. Though, I'm having trouble reconciling the lack of defensive marks with a close proximity weapon such as a hammer. Unless, Sam was quick enough to hit girl #1, then hit girl#2 before girl #2 really regained her composure before realizing someone was coming towards her and swinging a weapon.

When someone is asleep and you bash them in the head with a hammer it can render them unconscious if not kill them. Then you go to girl #2 asleep, same thing. Then the maul makes certain they are really dead. Mom comes in; he's waiting. Upon arrival she is frozen in shock (can you imagine?) and he hits her probably from behind and she's down for the count and he continues with the maul. Ted Bundy killed more than one girl in a sorority - two in the same bedroom, by bludgeoning them while they slept.

I asked earlier if perhaps there was a fireplace in the master bedroom and that is where Sam grabbed a chunk of wood to hit Mark. Otherwise, it is weird that he would follow him upstairs without the hammer. A chunk of wood is a more cumbersome weapon than the hammer.

 

[dangrsmind]

I have no problem with someone who wants to spread awareness regarding occults. But if he's just trying to make a buck off a horrible crime like this, then that's another story. But I do think I saw where the seminar was 'free'.

As for his 'expertise', I'd have to research him more. But I'm sure much of his presentation is rather basic and probably just touches the surface.

He makes his money by selling consulting services to the local police as I understand it. The purpose of the free town hall is to stir up the community so that they apply pressure to the police to investigate the occult angle.

His presentation is something I'd expect to result from a couple of weeks of research by an intelligent high school student, not from a law enforcement "expert" on the occult. Also, anyone that says they are an occult expert is almost certainly a liar, charlatan, or worse. While there are many practitioners, the true experts in this area are so rare that it is not even worth further discussion of Rimer's credentials to determine whether in fact he is an "expert". The answer is very obviously no.

 

[AndresEscobar]

When someone is asleep and you bash them in the head with a hammer it can render them unconscious if not kill them. Then you go to girl #2 asleep, same thing. Then the maul makes certain they are really dead. Mom comes in; he's waiting. Upon arrival she is frozen in shock (can you imagine?) and he hits her probably from behind and she's down for the count and he continues with the maul. Ted Bundy killed more than one girl in a sorority - two in the same bedroom, by bludgeoning them while they slept.

But, if you hit someone with a hammer, it will still make a loud noise (sound of a skull crushing), there will be a larger degree of movement and scuffling, and have a lesser degree of certainty of killing or rendering unconscious with a single blow than the maul. Also, after making the noise of bashing in girl #1, he'd still have to approach and hit girl #2 without rousing her reflexes to protect herself.

Do you see my point how this is more convoluted?

 

[dangrsmind]

I'm going to say it's a GSR wipe or other type of test used to determine whether there was gun short residue on their hands. There's nothing to suggest the involvement of a gun from anything we've read. Also, the warrants don't list any guns, spent casings, bullets, or bullet holes. Furthermore, a gunshot would have caused enough noise to perhaps rouse a neighbor or twl.

Doing this test is probably just standard procedure or maybe just to rule out some sort of murder/suicide pact with the girls.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Also, Ziggy, I agree to an extend with your analysis of the mothers killing. I think it could also be as soon as she opened the door she was hit with something.

 

[ziggy]

Link to the search warrant documents:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM041_20091104-001202/303559/

But beware...when you hit on the Richmond Dispatch pages - a hammer comes from nowhere and spins around as part of an ad. It took me off guard just now as we were discussing hammer v. maul. Weird.

 

[dangrsmind]

But, if you hit someone with a hammer, it will still make a loud noise (sound of a skull crushing), there will be a larger degree of movement and scuffling, and have a lesser degree of certainty of killing or rendering unconscious with a single blow than the maul. Also, after making the noise of bashing in girl #1, he'd still have to approach and hit girl #2 without rousing her reflexes to protect herself.

Do you see my point how this is more convoluted?

I agree the maul would be more decisive.

With either weapon there is the danger of a glancing blow that might do little or no damage to the target but would I imagine wake them up.

 

[ziggy]

Also, Ziggy, I agree to an extend with your analysis of the mothers killing. I think it could also be as soon as she opened the door she was hit with something.

And stumbled backward into the "den" area? Hence the blood evidence found there and the clean up attempt.

 

[PAXIMUS]

He makes his money by selling consulting services to the local police as I understand it. The purpose of the free town hall is to stir up the community so that they apply pressure to the police to investigate the occult angle.

His presentation is something I'd expect to result from a couple of weeks of research by an intelligent high school student, not from a law enforcement "expert" on the occult. Also, anyone that says they are an occult expert is almost certainly a liar, charlatan, or worse. While there are many practitioners, the true experts in this area are so rare that it is not even worth further discussion of Rimer's credentials to determine whether in fact he is an "expert". The answer is very obviously no.

Well said.

 

[gxm]

Link to the search warrant documents:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM041_20091104-001202/303559/

But beware...when you hit on the Richmond Dispatch pages - a hammer comes from nowhere and spins around as part of an ad. It took me off guard just now as we were discussing hammer v. maul. Weird.

That spinning hammer is so creepy! It weirds me out every time. Thanks for the link. I've been going over the docs.

 

[Wes]

He makes his money by selling consulting services to the local police as I understand it. The purpose of the free town hall is to stir up the community so that they apply pressure to the police to investigate the occult angle.

I did read that the Virginia State Police contacted Rimer in regards to this case.

As for the occult angle, are you opposed to this being investigated further?

 

[AndresEscobar]

I agree the maul would be more decisive.

With either weapon there is the danger of a glancing blow that might do little or no damage to the target but would I imagine wake them up.

fair enough, but the scope of error with the hammer is larger: in the event the other wakes up, Sam would have to still get in close quarters and there would be presumably some type of struggle to at least create defensive wounds.

 

[ziggy]

Greetings sleuthers.

...I ask because I was speculating otherwise :-D One possible explanation for (one of?) the handwritten note(s) was that Sam wrote it as part of a bumbling attempt at alibi. He mentioned to some driver or another that he waited for his girlfriend to fall asleep and left before she awoke. Perhaps that conversation combined with a phony goodbye note, ala "Sorry Emma, I love you but it's not working out. I had to leave thx for the hospitality <333333333" was meant to introduce reasonable doubt regarding his involvement in her murder.

Some have already speculated that his call to the police about spooky sounds in the basement might have been an attempt at misdirection as well. To be clear, I am not insinuating that this would be a sensible move; rather, it seems a pretty hopeless act. But he was almost certainly desperate at one point or another, and he might have become convinced that "it's just like I told that driver" + "scary sounds in the basement, after all if I murdered them OF COURSE I wouldn't call the cops" + "see, I even left a bittersweet goodbye note" was better than nothing.

Good thought and that would have been smarter than what he did. All that hard work is wiped out by the fact he had possession of Mark's car. oops. Hey babe, sorry it didn't work out. Now that your Dad just showed up, I convinced him to let me take his car to the airport...

And, they have his one and only pair of shoes he brought on the trip. Shoes. Always the shoes...Legally Blonde, OJ, there has to be trace evidence on his shoes and clothing. He's a slob. It's there.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I'm sure there's material to buy, but no one is obligated to.

Sure, they're not obligated to buy it. But his "presentation" is an infomercial for his books.

It's like going to a "Free financial advice" forum with a dubious financial guru. Buy my book, save for retirement. Buy my book, save the children. Not very different from the "I'm going Sam on it" T-shirts, in my opinion.

 

[dangrsmind]

I did read that the Virginia State Police contacted Rimer in regards to this case.

As for the occult angle, are you opposed to this being investigated further?

I wonder if that's true, but of course it might be. He has done a decent job of promoting himself as an expert in certain circles so maybe this is not very surprising.

As far as the occult angle, have you read my postings? lol

I'm all for an investigation of any aspect of this case including the occult aspect, but occult investigations require a bit of a sense of humor that I don't see in Rimer. Also, frankly the Farmville PD paying Rimer to tell them that upside down crosses are a Satanic symbol is both a waste of time and money. Unless there was some significant occult related symbology at the scene, i.e. a sigil or magic circle indicating performance of a ritual, I don't see where this surface analysis leads. And if there was such a ritual display at the scene, IMO, Rimer is unqualified to assess its true meaning or importance beyond these same surface level descriptions.

Instead of listening to Rimer, use Google. You'll learn more.

 

[gxm]

And stumbled backward into the "den" area? Hence the blood evidence found there and the clean up attempt.

Or she opened the bedroom door, saw the horrible scene and turned to run. Sam may have caught her from behind as she was going for the phone or trying to escape.

 

[Farmvillian]

I'm going to say it's a GSR wipe or other type of test used to determine whether there was gun short residue on their hands. There's nothing to suggest the involvement of a gun from anything we've read. Also, the warrants don't list any guns, spent casings, bullets, or bullet holes. Furthermore, a gunshot would have caused enough noise to perhaps rouse a neighbor or twl.

I do not think a gun was involved. Although this is a country town with lots of hunters. A gunshot would be noticed or maybe not. Sam is lucky he did not pick one of the families who are into hunting. My friend yesterday walks in the house with a sidearm strapped to his side. Scared the crap out of me . Then we go to his truck where he has enough Ammo, rifle, and knives to start a little war. We go to eat lunch at Ruby Tuesday he casually lays his side arm on the dash with not a second thought. Just his level of comfort was amazing. Alot of people have guns in every corner of there home. I bought him lunch the *advertiser censored* got steak. ahaha Anyways if he had a gun it would of explained how he could control four people?

 

[absynthminded1]

Why the heck would Sam get pissed off at Emma and Mel getting it on? Sounds like a real good time to me.

Not when you realize that your chance of getting any action is slim and none with the third wheel around, especially if you realize that the girl you flew all the way across the country to see is REALLY close to her best friend.

Even if Emma still liked Sam, Mel could have made it really difficult, both in a spacial sense (privacy) and in regards to how she could have persuaded Emma not to waste her time with Sam. Best friends have a lot of pull when you are that age.

If this is the scenario... Mel could have very well been the most brutalized, maybe even the first person he attacked. Just food for thought.