VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

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I hear people say that, but please explain to me how that's the case. I imagine that someone in jail for 50-60 years cost a hell of a lot more than hooking him/her up to the electric chair or lethal injection.



Everything that is needed for an ordinary trial is needed for a death penalty case, only more so:
More pre-trial time will be needed to prepare: cases typically take a year to come to trial more pre-trial motions will be filed and answered.
More experts will be hired.
Twice as many attorneys will be appointed for the defense, and a comparable team for the prosecution.
Jurors will have to be individually quizzed on their views about the death penalty, and they are more likely to be sequestered.
Two trials instead of one will be conducted: one for guilt and one for punishment.
The trial will be longer: a cost study at Duke University estimated that death penalty trials take 3 to 5 times longer than typical murder trials
And then will come a series of appeals during which the inmates are held in the high security of death row.

EST cost of life in prison 1 million.

EST cost for DP case and execution 3 million on average.
 
From DM's link:

The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.

The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).

The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.
 
Everything that is needed for an ordinary trial is needed for a death penalty case, only more so:
More pre-trial time will be needed to prepare: cases typically take a year to come to trial more pre-trial motions will be filed and answered.
More experts will be hired.
Twice as many attorneys will be appointed for the defense, and a comparable team for the prosecution.
Jurors will have to be individually quizzed on their views about the death penalty, and they are more likely to be sequestered.
Two trials instead of one will be conducted: one for guilt and one for punishment.
The trial will be longer: a cost study at Duke University estimated that death penalty trials take 3 to 5 times longer than typical murder trials
And then will come a series of appeals during which the inmates are held in the high security of death row.

EST cost of life in prison 1 million.

EST cost for DP case and execution 3 million on average.

Point taken! I don't feel any different on my opinion for the DP, but I do appreciate the stats.
 
It would seem to me that a life sentence would be much worse than being on death row and being put to death.

If I really wanted to punish someone and I had either option at my disposal , then I would impose the life sentence. This choice wouldnt have anything to do with morals but rather what I would consider to be the most severe of the two.
I live a few miles from the prison that does the executions in my state. A real big hoopla up there at execution time ....................
 
Point taken! I don't feel any different on my opinion for the DP, but I do appreciate the stats.

I think the common mistake people make is that they assume its cheaper to execute someone than house them for life if we only take in to consideration the time both convicts enter prison after trial, since the DP convict will be there for less time than the lifer it is assumed his stay is less costly. The main cost for the DP case comes during trial though where it is often many many times more expensive to try the DP case than the lifer case making it overall more expensive for the DP over LWOP.
 
Point taken! I don't feel any different on my opinion for the DP, but I do appreciate the stats.

DP is a personal opinion and I wouldn't expect it to change, but thank you for being open and receptive to discussion and hearing our points.
 
Meanwhile, PiXy and I have made up and are back together. ;)
 
Yea EA and I ventured out in to the darkness for a bit on some other threads on this forum and yikes, what a difference between all of them and this group, we are all very lucky to have come together, I really cant imagine some of the comments they would have made about this case had some of them joined in this discussion.

Yeah, it is pretty terrible there.
 
Yeah, it is pretty terrible there.

Like I said before this mob mentality that I see in some people on these forums and folks who watch Nancy Grace for example, calling for people to be fried and raped in prison, seemingly getting pleasure from the suffering of those who have been accused of crimes (and I say accused because nobody ever talks about any of these cases AFTER the trial when the person is actually found guilty or innocent, they spend all their time judging them before the trial even takes place then lose interest when the trial actually begins or is finished) anyway, this mob mentality is much, much more dangerous and a threat to us all than any single deranged criminal walking around on the streets. Some of the comments I see from people on these forums and how quick others are to join in and cheer for more people to be thrown to the lions makes me more fearful than I would be walking down a dark alley at 2 am in the Bronx.
 
I've posted this before, but here's the latest update from Google Trends:

viz


http://www.google.com/trends?q=horrorcore&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2009&sort=0

I don't want t defend the guy exactly but...

Interest in horrorcore was absolutely increased by the coverage of the murders, and many horrorcore artists are laughing all the way to the bank as a result. Mars is more honest about it than some others. IMO. YMMV.

That is very true. This case did put the spotlight on the entire scene. Being a fan of horrorcore myself, I just think they could have picked a better spokesman for it than that moron. </rant>
 
He has a right to do what he wants, I will say this doesnt make him look too good but perhaps looking like a fecking moron is profitable in his line of work, if so then he has reached the pinnacle of his profession!

Welcome back Mary, glad youre sticking around!

Link us to any other forums you know of where dicsussion of this case is going on.

I only know of one place as of right now that I haven't seen discussed already on here and that is:
www.sykosam.info
It is more like a 'fan site' for Syko Sam than it is about the case though.
I deleted the topic I had about it on Mars' message board because it got really out of hand there.

And thank you all for welcoming me into your websleuth community! I do plan on sticking around from here on out. I just wish I could have came across this site sooner. This has been the best discussion board about this case that I've seen yet!
 
epic post apologies- I've come across something that I don't recall seeing here before. It's locked away on Raz's blog and available to friends only. I may be wrong and it may have been posted here before. So much goes by, it's easy to miss things and searching these forums isn't always as easy as I'd like. It's an interesting read even if it is a repeat. I'll reserve comment for now, since it's long enough to be quite a bit to digest on its own.

http://www.myspace.com/deadgirlsuperstarrazakel

MY VIEWS ON THIS TRAGEDY....
Current mood: *****y
Category: Blogging
First off, i wanna thank everyone who has left their love, respects and condolences on my page. I won't lie all this is still a shock on my end, i'm still hurting and i hate how **** pans out, but it is what it is. Anyone who TRULY knows me, Sick or SKR in general KNOWS that we love all our ****ing fans, your all family to us, you all mean alot to us, and when we say SKR will rise, we mean it, and we're taking all of you with us.
This has prolly been the biggest tragedy of the year for us, everyone knows how close me and doll and mel were, those girls meant alot to me, i kept in touch with them often and i was always there for them, they were our biggest supporters, and now sadly theyre ****ing gone. I remember getting back from michigan after SFTW and not hearing from them, i remember mel's mom calling me so concerend, when she gave me details my heart just sank to the pit of my stomach and i really thot i was gonna faint or throw up. I will NOT GO INTO detail about what happened and what i know, but it is SO tragic, these young girls had so many dreams and hopes and so much time to make everything happen and that was cut short. I'm ****ing 25 years old and knowing these ppl have been erased from this planet just puts me in total shock and it hurts... deeply. This year, i just lost my father, i also lost another loved one, and that was rough, i cant lie, but this whole situation with emma and mel, has taken its toll on me in a whole different aspect. Every morning i would wake up to numerous texts from doll, shed just text me to say hi, to see how i was doing, to make sure i was okay, and i was the same with her, there was never no real conversation just checking in, we would talk on aim about so much **** day n night, and it was the same with mel, she would text me inviting me to dinner (lol) and she was so ****ing random, a 5 minute conversaTion with that girl was the craziest 5 minutes u could ever have. The last time i got to see them and hangout with them was at SFTW, doll n mel came to my room and me and my friend kali did up mel's hair and ragdoll insisted on passing us rubberbands so "i can help." those girls were so happy to be there, those girls were just so happy, period. what happened to them was indeed a tragedy, but to be completely honest all i can think of is all the GOOD. the good does outweigh the bad and ima keep it that way.

Now, at the same time, i'm VERY ANGRY about all this. Angry, becase of the way some ppl have acted during all of this. i have seen strangers come out the woodwork ACTING like they knew these girls, ACTING like they had a connection with them, and its ****ing bull****, these girls have been fans for years and now becuz theyre a ****ing NEWS story ppl think they can just barge in like they know ****, well you know what **** you. i have LOST so much RESPECT for both fans and artists alike over this ****, people make me ****ing SICK. i see ppl showing rememberance, and thats kool n ****, but like sick said in a line "if you didnt know them HOW the **** can you understand?" we KNEW those girls, we were there for them when no one was, we were there when they had problems, when thier freinds all dissed them becuz of thier affiliation with us, i know some of thier deepest darkest secrets, so for some random *advertiser censored* to hit me up saying they knew them and know what i'm goin thru, **** you. **** you in your muther****ing *advertiser censored*.

Also, what ****ing BAFFLES me, is how ppl concentrate on thier deaths, what the **** is wrong with you??? some ppl say "it brings closure", well you know what, we know alot more than anyone wants to know right now, and no i dont feel any closure, just becuz this is the biggest GOSSIP right now, doesnt mean u have the right to talk about it like u know what happened. go ahead, do your research, try to piece everythng that happened, good luck, but your a ****ing SAD waste of space. i think to concentrate on these girls' deaths, dehumanizes them, makes them seem like just an object in a tragedy, well you know what **** YOU. i choose to focus on thier lives, why the **** am i gonna think about what HAPPEND to them when like i said above THE GOOD OUTWEIGHS THE BAD.
I see all these random *advertiser censored* artists comin out the wood work, tryna talk to the media to make a ****in buck' when they werent there in the first place and dont know thier ****ing asses from a hole in the ground, its ****ing PATHEITC and its ****ing SAD. and whats ****ing hilarious about this ****, is that the aritsts/fans coming out acting like they knew these girls are full of **** with NO respect and believe it or not, emma and mel didnt know about thier musick to begin with ANYWAY. everyone knows these girls were SKR LOYALS. those girls knew every word to every song, those girls travelled hours to come hang out with us and be a PART of this RISE. i aint saying they werent familiar to alot of the underground but everyone knows where thier hearts were truly. this whole situation to me, has shown ppl's TRUE colors, i now know who i can trust and who i cant, i now know who was sincere with this **** and who wasnt, i now know ppl i dont ever wanna be affiliated with ever again and i dgaf whether theyre "legends" or not. This has brought out the WORST in ppl and i'm DONE. i'm ****ing DONE dealing with ignorant *advertiser censored* people who in reality dont give a **** about anything but thier own ****. ****ing pathetic...

Another thing i wanted to address: all these "rumors/conspiracies" goin around are flatout ****ing REDICULOUS. no, sick did not tell sam to do it, no, i dont run a satanic underground cult, no we are not related to ****ing 911 and the new world ****ing order, no sick was not having an affiar with them and i told sam to kill my freinds, NO NO NO NO. i have seen CRAZY FAR FETCHED rumors surfacing, and i can PROVE theyre ALL false. how? um okay, SKR wasnt the one that bludgeoned 4 ppl to death, SKR wasnt holding the weapon, SKR is NOT a cult, we're a ****ing LABEL with a loyal following. any REAL fan, knows how we roll. let alone, me and sick are linked thru blood, so to everyone making up these false rumors, your ****ing wrong and your sad, and as far as i'm concernred its ppl like YOU that should be killed. I heard one about how we knew sam back in 06 and how he was at the video shoot for "in the name of" LOL sam was 15 yrs old at that time, do you really wanna hear it from his family yourself that he was in fact in SCHOOL??? and NOT in ****ing NM, as far as i'm concerend that kid had never even been NEAR NM. jesus, i wont lie, its kinda flattering that ppl would try to pin so much on us, but at the same time, we were the ones that called up VA cops like " hey, we think there might be some dead people." here how about this:::: IF we REALLY had ANY part in this, dont u think cops woulda been at our door a LONG time ago? yea, exactly, so go ahead keep making up your rumors, whether its GOOD or bad **** being said about us its ALL promotion at the end of the day. and believe me, promotion is not what we wanted out of all this, and i think by observing how other ppl are making this out compared to us, you can see it. others are tryna talk to the media saying they know **** and they dont, they wanna make a quick buck off of some dead girls, and its ****ing horrible, us on the other hand, if we wanted to milk this ****, we woulda done it the second we heard about it, but we didnt out of RESPECT. just becuz we rap about some evil ugly **** does not mean we aint human, and it dont mean we dont have hearts. so **** you.
ask the haters, no matter how bad u try to make us look, your just making our name bigger.

another subject i wanna address:. MUSICK DID NOT DO THIS. Yes, musick can play a huge role in someones life, and yes we do bring out a darker side of life with this ****, its true, but dude, its a ****ing balance, you always gotta have balance, right/wrong. good/ evil, its just how the world functions pal. like sick has said, our musick isnt different from seeing a horror movie on friday night, its no different then turning on the news and the media glorifying death and war, it really IS no different, and PLUS its ENTERTAINMENT. we are here to entertain you, not to tell you to kill ppl. once again, MUSICK is not what killed these poor people, A KILLER is what killed these ppl. so NOW the media is pointing the finger at :drum rolls: SK MUTHER****ING R. and you know what? ITS FINE. becuz now, we been dragged thru the mud so much its time to stand up for SKR and this genre as a whole (minus u lameass punks). The focus from emma and mel's deaths has been moved to us now. and thats horrible, that was never the intention, but since the hearing aint till ****ing january, i expect things to only get worse. whats funny is how SKR has been doin this musick **** for YEARS and the media never gave a **** before, but then some ppl pass away and BLAM! lets point the finger to the musick! hey whos the most dangrous label in the underground? who can we scapegoat, BLAM! lets point the finger at SKR, YES! and the media frenzy began. but you know what thats FINE. ppl always need a scapegoat, and sadly that has to be us, but OH well, this is now out of our control. SKR is JESUS and we're being CRUCIFIED. so be it.

Also, to all the haters and past enemies who have surfaced with thier condoloences and respects: Thank you. But i dont need any love from you or your ppl, so u can keep that **** to yourself. i understand you ****s wanna come out and truly show your respects, but to be honest and blunt, we dont need it, never did (obviously). but hey, thanks again, but i still think your all worthless pieces of ****.

AND LASTLY:::: SKR IS NOT QUITTING & SKR IS NOT TONING DOWN THE MUSICK. i had some dude hit me up yesterday asking me "so dont you think you should quit, or possibly tone down your lyrics? that way some other person doesnt make your songs into reality." WOW!!! once again, i'm baffled at ppl's ignorance and stupidity. I aint stoppin my musick, if anything i'm coming at it even HARDER, WHY? cuz thats why mel and doll liked us from the beggining, so yea, expect far worse things to come out my mouth, becuz if i do stop or tone down, the media wins, the stupid ignorant ppl pointin fingers at the musick wins, and **** THAT. if ppl wanna blame the musick/lyrics, thier flatout ****ing IGNORANT. If i were to quit, or tone down my ****, the wrong ppl in all of this win and GUESS what? it aint happening under my watch, **** no. Mel didnt even LIKE rap, but she loved us becuz of the brutality, Doll said it herself "you guys' musick has helped me thru some of the hardest ****" so for us to change ANYTHING about our musick is a flatout slap in thier faces and disrespectful. and ppl are already being disrespectful as is, so its not happening bud. you can ONLY WISH SKR will die, but trust me pal, its not ever gonna happen.
If anything this had made us stronger, and NOW its time to get back on the ball, its time to promote more, its time to get back on the hustle, its time to make this **** heard and do things bigger and better, FOR THOSE girls, i whole heartedly believe that they woulda wanted that.

so with that being said, this has been a great loss, and i'm sorry to anyone who lost these girls too, but at least we got to know them for who they were and at least we know that while they were still alive, they were the best ppl to ever be around with or talk to. its time to be strong and keep our heads up and do this **** for them, now i feel my musick has even more of a purpose now more than ever. those girls will always be in my heart and i will always remember the good times, goodbye to my fallen friends, but i will keep doing this **** for you.
thanks to anyone reading this and showing love and support, you are all proof as to why SKR cant ever be ****ed with.
SKR WILL RISE.

-Razakel/SKR
 
Well. That was actually a pretty good statement. I mean, it went on forever and a day, but everyone needs an editor. Except for that, I have to give Raz some credit here.

I hope she realizes by now that no one is personally invested in the conspiracy theories, but rather that it's all just part of the initial far-reaching discussion. I also hope that any of the people closer in their social circle that were swarming in are giving them a little space now.

I wonder if Raz or any of the horrorcore crowd will have involvement in the trial. I can imagine scenarios either way. It may be completely kept out, or it could be paraded in front of the jury for a variety of different purposes, by different parties.
 
Raz's comments are sensible and even touching for the most part.

We are still left with no explanation of why the murders were committed or how this particular person could have been driven to that extreme however. She calls theories about that "conspiracy theories", and although I think she mostly talking about our buddy "Mark" and his two SKR attack blogs here, this post fails to offer an alternative explanation.

Why did he do it?

Also, there is the attempt to silence PiXy and one assumes the other Unholy Apostles. I still have to wonder about that.
 
Like I said before this mob mentality that I see in some people on these forums and folks who watch Nancy Grace for example, calling for people to be fried and raped in prison, seemingly getting pleasure from the suffering of those who have been accused of crimes (and I say accused because nobody ever talks about any of these cases AFTER the trial when the person is actually found guilty or innocent, they spend all their time judging them before the trial even takes place then lose interest when the trial actually begins or is finished) anyway, this mob mentality is much, much more dangerous and a threat to us all than any single deranged criminal walking around on the streets. Some of the comments I see from people on these forums and how quick others are to join in and cheer for more people to be thrown to the lions makes me more fearful than I would be walking down a dark alley at 2 am in the Bronx.

Which is why I have been harping on the whole "Horrorcore Witch Hunt" angle this entire time.
 
Is that a muzzle that guy wears over his mouth? Is Pax going to be on here telling me that guy eats and cleans his toilet and everything with that on?

I can't really read that interview and take it seriously though with that guy looking like a cartoon dog.
 
Is that a maul that guy wears over his mouth? Is Pax going to be on here telling me that guy eats and cleans his toilet and everything with that on?

I can't really read that interview and take it seriously though with that guy looking like a cartoon dog.

I never understood what Mar's make up was supposed to represent actually.

But look the guy is not to be taken seriously. I've already commented on the unbelievably bad photoshop work on one of his record covers. (Schoolhouse Glock)

Is it like a really bad imitation of Hannibal Lecter's mask? idk...

For some reason I picture Mars working the Vegas strip as a horrorcore Elvis impersonator in a few years.
 
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