VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #7

[PAXIMUS]

I don't think they have to now what it means entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if they do look some things up. They may get some idea of what things are and then just let their minds go from there.

Only patially understanding adds to the "magicalness" to some people.

Yea I am guilty of assuming these kids grew up like I did, actually needing to go to a library and dig up books to look this stuff up, Dewey Decimal system and all LOL.

But they all have the internet so its pretty easy to look this stuff up now.

 

[dangrsmind]

Yuk, yuk, I know what you mean, Pax, about do they understand the meaning behind what they're displaying, or not?

When Asa was just talking, people would ask him, What's your name, and he'd say, "Asa, A-S-A." And they'd say, "OMG, he can spell?!!??" And we'd have to say, er, not really. It's a very short sequence of letters....

Do they understand the esoteric meaning of the tree of life? Possibly not.

Do they believe in supernatural effects? Possibly so.

But I note also that in the modern era it is easy to find out whatever you need to know with a quick trip to Google. Us older folks (ahem) sometimes forget how the younger generation operates here; they don't read many books, but they are on the Internet 24/7 and they know how to find things. In my day we hung out at the used book stores on Telegraph Avenue which was less efficient, but had the advantage that you could get espresso and hit on girls too.

If you head on over to Google and type in "tree of life" or "sephiroth" (also the name of a popular video game character BTW) and do any research at all you will learn a lot pretty fast.

We know for example that Sam called the police back to 505 1st supposedly because he heard "a noise in the cellar" which is a horror movie cliche. Was he hearing things? Or was this an inept attempt at constructing an alibi as some have suggested? I don't discount either possibility actually.

 

[dangrsmind]

lol

I type way too slow...

 

[DoctorZ]

Yea I am guilty of assuming these kids grew up like I did, actually needing to go to a library and dig up books to look this stuff up, Dewey Decimal system and all LOL.

But they all have the internet so its pretty easy to look this stuff up now.

You mentioned liking punk. I could imagine it being much like that scene.

1. Some people just like it because it's loud.

2. Others like punk because they were told it stood for something, they just can't seem to gather the concepts on their own. They'll gladly listen when someone else wants to give their interpretation, they just can't come up with the ideas on their own.

3. Some people will be able to listen, analyze and interpret. They may see meanings below the surface. Some of them are correct in these interpretations, others are just making things up as they go.

Group 2 listens to group 3 and furthers group 3's ideas by repeating them to others in group 2. The problem comes up when you realize that a significant portion of group 3 are BSing.

 

[dangrsmind]

You mentioned liking punk. I could imagine it being much like that scene.

1. Some people just like it because it's loud.

2. Others like punk because they were told it stood for something, they just can't seem to gather the concepts on their own. They'll gladly listen when someone else wants to give their interpretation, they just can't come up with the ideas on their own.

3. Some people will be able to listen, analyze and interpret. They may see meanings below the surface. Some of them are correct in these interpretations, others are just making things up as they go.

Group 2 listens to group 3 and furthers group 3's ideas by repeating them to others in group 2. The problem comes up when you realize that a significant portion of group 3 are BSing.

Or even if they are not BSing, some of these ideas are subject to misinterpretation and misunderstanding or the true meanings are hidden. If you read Leilah Wendell's stuff, you might decide to head over to the graveyard and spend some time with a dead body. Or you might just gain some insight into the nature of death and your relation to it.

There are reasons these sorts of texts and practices were kept secret in the Tibetan tradition...

 

[PAXIMUS]

You mentioned liking punk. I could imagine it being much like that scene.

1. Some people just like it because it's loud.

2. Others like punk because they were told it stood for something, they just can't seem to gather the concepts on their own. They'll gladly listen when someone else wants to give their interpretation, they just can't come up with the ideas on their own.

3. Some people will be able to listen, analyze and interpret. They may see meanings below the surface. Some of them are correct in these interpretations, others are just making things up as they go.

Group 2 listens to group 3 and furthers group 3's ideas by repeating them to others in group 2. The problem comes up when you realize that a significant portion of group 3 are BSing.

Yeap thats about right. The punk scene was maybe even more hardcore than these kids, there was a lot of drugs back then too. This was 80s, lots of cocaine etc.

The main difference I would note was that we were not into the satanism stuff much, it was more political rebellion (and girls) for most of us, for the rest it was mostly about getting high and drunk.

There were no computers, no cell phones, only a few cable channels, all we did was pretty much cruise around and raise hell.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I have a sore wife...


She is waking up and not feeling well.

She handled this better than I did. I was a mess the whole time, the nurses were more concerned about me than her...

 

[southernvagirl]

I didn't say that. I said that there are several view points. There is the pro DP viewpoint, the people that feel its justified. Then there are those that take it further, love it, and get off on it.

As much as I hate to admit,,,I guess there are those who deal with the DP more (should I say) vigorously or enthusiastically (sp).....more than others. Back in the eighties my hubby and I were outside the penitentiary when one of the Briley brothers was executed in Richmond Va,,,for the brutal murders he and his brothers committed in a killing spree....There were those who yelled and seemed quite happy they were about to be killed by the state,,,and all I remember feeling,,,was how relieved I was he would never get the chance to do it again........

 

[dgfred]

Yeap thats about right. The punk scene was maybe even more hardcore than these kids, there was a lot of drugs back then too. This was 80s, lots of cocaine etc.

The main difference I would note was that we were not into the satanism stuff much, it was more political rebellion (and girls) for most of us, for the rest it was mostly about getting high and drunk.

There were no computers, no cell phones, only a few cable channels, all we did was pretty much cruise around and raise hell.

Are you sure you were not at high school in N.Carolina? Cruising, girls, sports, getting high/drunk and raising hell was just our game.

 

[ziggy]

PAX and EmeraldEyes - congratulations!!! And...welcome to the world Uri; I love your name.

Dangrs I'm not sure I would be willing to give up my wig for a nose pick, but that info is quite useful I'm sure (?) and I'll never disclose my reason for so many wigs, but it has nothing to do with Blou's top secret mission and/or animal suits, although I WISH

And if you think Glenn Beck is creepy, umm That Ickes guy is a total creep-out complete with sounds reminiscent with the aftermath of a shot of bad tequila...interesting though, and oh how I love those eccentrics, but VERY creepy.

Horrorcore people just lack a certain Je ne sais quoi, in contrast with the punk people. Can’t put my finger on it…maybe it’s just the total stoner idiot vibe, dunno.

 

[southernvagirl]

Oh boy.
I only spanked my son (who, btw Tapu, is 21) maybe 3 times ever. I saved it for when it REALLY counted, like crossing the street without looking.

You say the kids need consequences they can understand ... mine understood taking away a favorite video game (your example) much better than hitting him.

How can I teach him not to hit by hitting him?

Let's not talk about medicating people in such general terms, OK? I didn't want my son to be passive, I wanted him to be happy. Turns out he had ADD and OCD ... without meds, he held himself together all day at school (pretty miracleous), but then totally fell apart at home. He, and I, were not happy. Meds helped a lot to make him a happy, functioning person. It was up to HIM to decide when to go off meds and in his mid-teens he decided he was ready to deal with the implications emotionally and physically himself, without the help of meds. He has succeeded wonderfully. He needs some reminders, both from himself and from us periodically, but overall he is a super wonderful guy.

We raised him with manners, courtesy and responsibility ... and he continues to show all three on a daily basis. It takes parents that are willing to say no, parents that are willing to follow-through EVERY time and parents that are involved with their children all the way through young-adulthood.

Intensive parenting is harder than h3ll, but it works.

I do apologise for using such general terms...I am sure some kids need meds,,,but I don't believe the massive number of kids on meds really need them.....I guess the only example I can use for my thoughts is ,,,now hearing on the tv how this younger generation is using all kinds of drugs to keep their babies quiet and sedated enough to keep them out of the parents "hair"...so to speak......I can not believe the number of parents I personally know,,,who never say no to their kids, and the kids are so spoiled they are impossible to be around...For me, as a parent,,,I remember when they were little,, thinking I would be mortified if someone didn't like my child....To this day they have wonderful manners, and use them daily... One of my major problems in raising my boys,,,was their Dad wanted to be their "bestbuddy",,,and this among a few other things caused the divorce...I was always the one who wore the black hat,,,,,Parents,,,IMO,,,need to start very early saying "no".....If Emma's Mom had done this ,,,I trully believe this would never have happened,,,This is just MHOO...Sam's parents,,,,,well,,,,,,with everything I have read,,,they set the stage for this young man to follow thru with his murderous deeds...Just listen to his sister talk,,,,,her words and actions on line prove to me,,,"love" along with all the other terms used to describe a happy,family,,,was NEVER there.....I just wonder how much guilt Sam's parents feel,,,if at all...Please know everyone,,,everything I say is just my Own opinion.....

 

[southernvagirl]

Can't remember if I'd mentioned this before, but if Sam were in CA, he might be asking for the death penalty himself...

Respectfully snipped from: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/11/11/where-is-the-death-penalty-desirable-some-say-california/

"The death penalty also was the subject of a feature story in the LAT. Out in California, it seems, some defendants are actually asking for the death penalty rather than life in prison. Why? Because death row is better! Really! According to the story, the appeals process takes so long that prisoners are more likely to die of other causes while on death row than to die at the hand of the state. The statistics back it up. According to the LAT:

California has the nation’s largest death row population, with 685 sentenced to die by lethal injection. Yet only 13 executions have been carried out since capital punishment resumed in 1977 and none of the condemned have been put to death since a moratorium was imposed nearly four years ago. Five times as many death row inmates — 71 — have died over that same period of natural causes, suicide or inside violence.

But it’s not just the likelhood of being executed. It’s the conditions, as well:

Though death row inmates at San Quentin State Prison are far from coddled, they live in single cells that are slightly larger than the two-bunk, maximum-security confines elsewhere, they have better access to telephones and they have “contact visits” in plexiglass booths by themselves rather than in communal halls as in other institutions. They have about the only private accommodations in the state’s 33-prison network, which is crammed with 160,000-plus convicts.

Death row prisoners are served breakfast and dinner in their cells, can usually mingle with others in the outdoor exercise yards while eating their sack lunches, and have exclusive control over the television, CD player or other diversions in their cells.

It’s what recently caused murder convict Billy Joe Johnson to ask for the death penalty, rather than life."

So please don't feel sorry for Scott Peterson or David Westerfield or any other CA death row-ers.

Hi Ziggy,,,I followed both trials,,,no sympathy here...except to the families of their victims..

 

[PAXIMUS]

PAX and EmeraldEyes - congratulations!!! And...welcome to the world Uri; I love your name.

Dangrs I'm not sure I would be willing to give up my wig for a nose pick, but that info is quite useful I'm sure (?) and I'll never disclose my reason for so many wigs, but it has nothing to do with Blou's top secret mission and/or animal suits, although I WISH

And if you think Glenn Beck is creepy, umm That Ickes guy is a total creep-out complete with sounds reminiscent with the aftermath of a shot of bad tequila...interesting though, and oh how I love those eccentrics, but VERY creepy.

Horrorcore people just lack a certain Je ne sais quoi, in contrast with the punk people. Can’t put my finger on it…maybe it’s just the total stoner idiot vibe, dunno.

Punks have some style, devil worshipping fat bald redneck white boys trying to act like black gansta rappers is just comedy.

 

[southernvagirl]

3 am a little boy born happy and healthy. :dance:

Congratulations,,,,:dance:

 

[PAXIMUS]

I do apologise for using such general terms...I am sure some kids need meds,,,but I don't believe the massive number of kids on meds really need them.....I guess the only example I can use for my thoughts is ,,,now hearing on the tv how this younger generation is using all kinds of drugs to keep their babies quiet and sedated enough to keep them out of the parents "hair"...so to speak......I can not believe the number of parents I personally know,,,who never say no to their kids, and the kids are so spoiled they are impossible to be around...For me, as a parent,,,I remember when they were little,, thinking I would be mortified if someone didn't like my child....To this day they have wonderful manners, and use them daily... One of my major problems in raising my boys,,,was their Dad wanted to be their "bestbuddy",,,and this among a few other things caused the divorce...I was always the one who wore the black hat,,,,,Parents,,,IMO,,,need to start very early saying "no".....If Emma's Mom had done this ,,,I trully believe this would never have happened,,,This is just MHOO...Sam's parents,,,,,well,,,,,,with everything I have read,,,they set the stage for this young man to follow thru with his murderous deeds...Just listen to his sister talk,,,,,her words and actions on line prove to me,,,"love" along with all the other terms used to describe a happy,family,,,was NEVER there.....I just wonder how much guilt Sam's parents feel,,,if at all...Please know everyone,,,everything I say is just my Own opinion.....

SSRI medication is way over-prescribed, you are 100% right but we have to be careful because it is indeed helpful to many. But there is no doubt it is being prescribed in many cases for things that do not otherwise require medication. For example my son started having problems in class and the school admin and nurse immediately suggested that he was ADD and needed to be put on medication for this so that he wouldnt be so disruptive in the classroom. Well I refused to believe it because we saw no problems with him at home and finally one therapist cracked the mystery. My son has a very high IQ and was simply BORED in the classroom because what they were learning didnt stimulate him at all. We now have him in a private school for advanced learning students and he is having no problems at all because he is actually challenged in the classroom. Had I listened to the idiots I would have drugged up my kid and sent him right back in to that other classroom a braindead zombie.

 

[southernvagirl]

SSRI medication is way over-prescribed, you are 100% right but we have to be careful because it is indeed helpful to many. But there is no doubt it is being prescribed in many cases for things that do not otherwise require medication. For example my son started having problems in class and the school admin and nurse immediately suggested that he was ADD and needed to be put on medication for this so that he wouldnt be so disruptive in the classroom. Well I refused to believe it because we saw no problems with him at home and finally one therapist cracked the mystery. My son has a very high IQ and was simply BORED in the classroom because what they were learning didnt stimulate him at all. We now have him in a private school for advanced learning students and he is having no problems at all because he is actually challenged in the classroom. Had I listened to the idiots I would have drugged up my kid and sent him right back in to that other classroom a braindead zombie.

Thanks, Pax...before I got half way through your response,,,I remembered my oldest son, while in grade school was acting up and it was realized he was also bored...He knew pretty much what was being taught and was just trying to occupy his time ,,,by annoying the teacher and getting into trouble.....We would not realize till he went into computer science, he has a photographic memory...Wow,,,I just wished I had reaized this before he was old enough to make his own decisions and limit himself....He is a success in his career in the IT world,,,but he could have done so much more...Even though I still encourage him to keep on keeping on with his education,,,he has unfortunately reached his "comfort zone."....

 

[PAXIMUS]

Thanks, Pax...before I got half way through your response,,,I remembered my oldest son, while in grade school was acting up and it was realized he was also bored...He knew pretty much what was being taught and was just trying to occupy his time ,,,by annoying the teacher and getting into trouble.....We would not realize till he went into computer science, he has a photgenic memory...Wow,,,I just wished I had reaized this before he was old enough to make his own decisions and limit himself....He is a success in his career in the IT world,,,but he could have done so much more...Even though I still encourage him to keep on keeping on with his education,,,he has unfortunately reached "His" comfort zone.....

Yea I know what you mean. I am always trying to set the bar a little higher for Ari, I try not to be one of those parents who are too hard on the kids and not let them be kids but I want to keep him challenged so that it will become second nature to him to always seek out something more and never be content with just being average. This is all for his benefit of course, the world will be a much different place when he is our age and I want him to be prepared to succeed in that world no matter what is thrown at him.

This of course has to be done in a healthy way otherwise he will become too obsessed and suffer to many letdowns and possibly turn to unhealthy outlets to ease that pain, so I dont push him too much but enough that he understands there is no limit to what he can accomplish if he sets his mind to it.

The most important thing I have done for him IMO is worked very hard on hand-eye coordination skills, my father was very big on that and it really helped me in many different ways growing up and even now, so we do a lot of juggling and things like that also.

We have a little challenge for all of us including mom that we all have to learn some new skill each month and then demonstrate it to eachother. So this month I am trying to learn to play the piano, Emerald is learning knitting and Ari is working on a balancing beam at school to better improve his balance and footwork. They have done better than I have, several months I was unable to show any real demonstrable skills in my chosen thing but I told them that someone has to go to work and pay the bills right lol.

 

[southernvagirl]

I have been on this thread since the beginning and I don't remember if the topic of the movie,Sam had with him in the car, has been talked about......THE movie,,,"Last house on the left" was a movie I saw many years ago,,,and I should tell you,,,one of the most horrendous "scarry" movies I had ever seen....It was a movie of low budget, but it was the realistic story of 2 young girls being tortured and murdered, after slipping out of a concert,,,looking for drugs....It has always held a special thought for me,,as it was as real, true to life as any movie I have ever seen.....I am wondering if Sam and the girls watched it together,,,or,,,did he have it to relate to what he had done to them...The movie, if memory serves me,,,had also to do with the parents of the girls, and their revenge to the guys who killed their daughter and her best friend in the woods outside of their own home...Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

 

[dangrsmind]

Punks have some style, devil worshipping fat bald redneck white boys trying to act like black gansta rappers is just comedy.

But that isn't what people said at the time, at least not in the Berkeley/SF bay area. Normal people were outraged by the punks behavior. And in my recollection some of the punks engaged in an all out war against normal people verging from time to time on drunken riots that including spitting on people, throwing garbage, and in some cases vandalizing cars and businesses. In other words, they were punks.

 

[dangrsmind]

From my era...