VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #7

[DoctorZ]

They had two dogs and two cats. A girl friend of Em's took the dogs and the PEC animal warden had the cats. The cats were traumatized according to the web site of the animal warren. They wanted to place them in two different homes. I do not know if they were able to do that or if they put them to sleep.

Do you know what kind of dogs they were?

 

[dangrsmind]

I don't think there's a connection at all other than what Claudicci already mentioned, that when you lock animals in the basement that's what happens; and well, I wouldn't be too surprised if the people in that house listened to awful music of some sort.

Don Rimer lists the presence of animal feces as one sign of ritual crime FWIW.

Also, Palo Mayombe does have music associated with it, but it is not awful. It is pretty typical african/latin drumming music IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqYV_htVfw8
la disputa entre Changó y Oggún por los favores de Ochún.

 

[peace_gurl]

Do you know what kind of dogs they were?

I will ask about the dogs after school is out this p.m. I just remember it was an older cat and a young kitten. I looked at the cats on line.

 

[dangrsmind]

nope that's just what happens when you leave animals locked up in a basement....

...but seriously it's NOT illegal to make religious sacrifices????????? ...how bout that for a defense stragety...after all "jesus made him do it"

It is illegal to kill animals "cruelly" or to torture them. But ritual sacrifice of animals in a "humane" manner is protected and allowed. Remember animals are also killed so people can eat them and if you know anything about that it is pretty disturbing itself. Ritual sacrifice is often relatively humane by comparison.

Killing a person as part of a religious sacrifice is illegal everywhere in the United States.

 

[dangrsmind]

....McCroskey called one hour later, Friday at 12:58 a.m., and said he heard something in the basement and wanted police to check it, said Wade Stimpson, the town's acting police chief.

Two officers arrived, and McCroskey let them into the house and the officers went down some stairs into the basement, which was covered with animal feces, Stimpson said. The officers then left without suspicion.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/state_regional/article/FARM231_20090922-233601/294871/P20/

curious as to the feces in the basement,,, and blou's comment of what was found in philadelphia. do you think there is a connection? do you think it has something to do with sam? do you think it could be some sort of ritual sam could have tried and spooked himself?

As far as we know, there was no specific sign of a ritual at the house. There have been rumors that he bought scented candles in town, but he may have done that in a poorly conceived attempt to cover the smell of the bodies. Some have proposed that he called the police to create some sort of alibi for himself based around a story of a mysterious intruder. If so, it was another poorly conceived plan since this "alibi" places him at the scene around the time of the murders.

 

[dangrsmind]

http://tinyurl.com/ykg3xpp

http://tinyurl.com/y8t6gvl

Remember, he was (presumably) stealing Mark's car, and according to at least one police report, they felt he was leaving town in the car, when he ran off the road on Poorhouse Road. So, he had to end up paying a taxi to the airport instead, about a one hour ride.

Best I can do to back up my tiny little memory!

The problem I have with this report is that as far as I know, no witness that saw him at the airport was interviewed or shown on television. You would think they would want to interview the people at the airport about his behavior and of course the smell. Also, if he tried to change his ticket why wouldn't the airline personnel offer him a stand by seat? That is pretty typical in my experience.

 

[peace_gurl]

The problem I have with this report is that as far as I know, no witness that saw him at the airport was interviewed or shown on television. You would think they would want to interview the people at the airport about his behavior and of course the smell. Also, if he tried to change his ticket why wouldn't the airline personnel offer him a stand by seat? That is pretty typical in my experience.

~Shugs~ I wonder why the newspaper would print such a thing! No quotes where they interviewed a reliable person. All I have to say is not everyone wants to be interviewed.

 

[dangrsmind]

~Shugs~ I wonder why the newspaper would print such a thing! No quotes where they interviewed a reliable person. All I have to say is not everyone wants to be interviewed.

Sure. That makes sense.

Also possible that the airport staff were purposely stalling him and knew the police were going to show up at some point.

 

[dangrsmind]

Regarding whether Sam might have "spooked" himself...

Here's a few academic papers I have recently come across vaguely related to this idea. Found these while researching something unrelated to this case BTW. Some may find this interesting.

http://pgabor.com/p/s/2004fall/soc4_grq.pdf
http://m0134.fmg.uva.nl/psi/PAPROCS/2006PROCS.pdf#page=289
http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~daplab/pubs/pdf/Giannotti_PCN01.pdf

Summary: He is priming himself by surrounding himself and immersing himself in occult and horror related media and images. Further, he is associating with people that have higher social status that believe in the occult and paranormal experiences. Therefore he may be predisposed to accepting these beliefs himself. This might influence how he perceives subsequent real events such as hearing a noise in the basement. In other words, he very well could end up "spooking himself".

IMO.

 

[Wes]

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM30_20090929-222402/296385/P20/

I'm sure this article was posted before but it gives us a pretty good timeline on the Well's angle of the story.No voice mail messages are mentioned however.
...so according to the article:
SEPT 15th 01:23AM Mrs.Wells talks to her daughter for the last time
SEPT 16th Mr.Wells waits in front of the Niederbrock house for 7 hours after driving 200 miles and returns back home.
SEPT 17th Mrs.Wells calls police to do welfarecheck/they check
right before midnight/Sam states the girls are at
movies.

I never understood why he waited til he got back to WV to call the police. If I drove 200 miles and waited for hours and couldn't find or get a hold of my daughter, I'd be driving a few more miles to the local police station before heading back home.

 

[dangrsmind]

I never understood why he waited til he got back to WV to call the police. If I drove 200 miles and waited for hours and couldn't find or get a hold of my daughter, I'd be driving a few more miles to the local police station before heading back home.

Possibly this was not the first time she wasn't where she was supposed to be when he was picking her up? Seems almost like he was pissed off and drove back home before realizing something wasn't right about the situation.

 

[Soulmagent]

Maybe Mel had a history of being unaccounted for and even if he felt something was wrong he wasnt able to convince himself of that fact. If Mel had a history of giving him the run arround I could see him leaving after talking himself into it just being another of Mel's selfish not caring to let people know what was going on.

My 18yo was like that, I would go to pick her up and she would leave played cat and mouse a few times, Had me in a dizzy spin with worry ,until it all ran dry. She had me worry something was wrong so many times that I couldnt get worried after a while even if I thought I should be , I could very much relate to those actions.
Thankfuly after A few life lessons she is no longer the crazy teen she once was altho she has her moments. She recently learned I no longer wait for middle of the night phone calls when she got her car stuck in a ditch in the snow and tried calling me for two hours. I had to report her missing a few times when she just didnt feel like coming home. 3 ,4 days later she would show up. I pay a cell bill for her so I know where she is but she doesnt always answer that either even now but she does give me a basic rundown of events. It used to be a week before I would consider a problem now I would worry in 12 hours.

 

[peace_gurl]

The Farmville Herald "The Town of Farmville's Police Chief Doug Mooney took the oath of office this morning, sworn in by Prince Edward County Circuit Court Clerk Machelle Eppes."

 

[Wes]

Possibly this was not the first time she wasn't where she was supposed to be when he was picking her up? Seems almost like he was pissed off and drove back home before realizing something wasn't right about the situation.

Maybe Mel had a history of being unaccounted for and even if he felt something was wrong he wasnt able to convince himself of that fact. If Mel had a history of giving him the run arround I could see him leaving after talking himself into it just being another of Mel's selfish not caring to let people know what was going on.

Yeah, that's most likely the case.

Plus, it may have been after he got back home that Mrs. Wells received the voicemail messages from Sam that really caused their concern and led them to call the police.

 

[dnrslucky1]

I never understood why he waited til he got back to WV to call the police. If I drove 200 miles and waited for hours and couldn't find or get a hold of my daughter, I'd be driving a few more miles to the local police station before heading back home.

I agree something is not right here. If I drove that far to pick up an 18 year old and she was not there. I would not sit and wait in the driveway for 7 hours. I think the news just did not report it correctly.

The dad prob hung around town that long. He prob knocked on the door, called her cell and got no answer, waited a bit then went for lunch. Tryed calling her again, no answer, wasted some more time. Then went back, knocked on the door again, tryed calling her again and then went home.

He was prob not very happy at this point. He just wasted a whole day and she was not where she was supposed to be.

He prob kept trying to call her all night, pacing the floor, come morning and still no answers, he reported her missing! I bet he wished he would have done more when he was there.

 

[LoveVA]

Hey everyone, I really can't catch up on the last month or so of posts (been crazy busy w/ Christmas etc) but just want to say that I can't wait for the trial! I am so hungry for more answers to what happened. It's the 29th right? Has anything come out at all about the case in the last month? Happy New Year to all

 

[wadahoot]

She had me worry something was wrong so many times that I couldnt get worried after a while even if I thought I should be , I could very much relate to those actions.

I don't know what I'd do if my kid pulled those stunts ... but then he just wouldn't ... more trouble when he got home than it would be worth!

 

[ziggy]

Well Happy New Year everyone - Happy Belated Birthday Heroine!

Midterms are over, holidays are over (I hate the holidays) and it was not without its share of emotional turmoil and getting completely off schedule and out of control! Glad to be back and see y'all again.

Waiting for news, waiting and checking for any new details. Soon.

Somehow it's always been weird to me too that Mel's Dad would drive all that way and wait for 7 hours! That's a long wait. I guess he didn't have Mark's number? Then how did Mrs. Wells get it? The details are so thin to this point it's quite frustrating.

Farmville, you tight - lipped little cute community, you...

 

[NativeGirl]

Whitener and Glenn said they think Niederbrock's decision to become a preacher put a strain on his long marriage to Kelley. "That was a difficult thing for Mark, because she was not committed to the church," Whitener said.

more @
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/23/AR2009092304781_2.html

 

[PAXIMUS]

Whitener and Glenn said they think Niederbrock's decision to become a preacher put a strain on his long marriage to Kelley. "That was a difficult thing for Mark, because she was not committed to the church," Whitener said.

more @
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/23/AR2009092304781_2.html

Like many academics she was probably an atheist.