VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

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EDIT: I see now that the daily mail article was an error. I will remove my post to avoid more confusion.
 
whyman said:
Im very confused right now. Daily mail seems to get things wrong pretty often but if they are right, JM is "only" a POI and the suspect is:

A black male, 5’10”-5’11”, 250-285 pounds, close shaved head, goatee, with a slight ‘beer belly’. He is described as being in his late 20’s-early 30’s and wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt.

I will not trust this until LE says so. JM is still the only POI in my mind.
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Don't trust the Daily Mail at all (IMO).


However, LE does still have this up on their website:

http://www.charlottesville.org/index.aspx?recordid=2544&page=635
 
,
I suspect the information confusing some is actually older articles before they came to arrive at JM being the POI.

Older and incorrect.

.
 
Re: BG w/ shaved head, there's an RSO listed on Concord Ave. that fits the description. I'm not sure of policy, so I'm not linking, but it's easily found on Crime Reports, zip code 22903.
 
Agreed. I wasn't saying that presumption of innocence is listed in the Constitution. I'm just saying that I'm, personally, in the "innocent until proven guilty camp".

Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights are the ones that I think people have been forgetting here. All of those things that you study in criminal procedure classes in law school...that sort of thing. So...the fact that he doesn't want to talk to the LE without Assistance of Counsel is a right as far as I (and the Bill of Rights) see it.

gitana1 said:
The presumption of innocence is not listed in the constitution. However, our constitution. It simply means that the prosecution has the burden of proof rather than the defense. It has no bearing on the media, society or how LE investigates. It has to do with who has the burden to prove their case. That's it.
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Galadriel said:
Re: BG w/ shaved head, there's an RSO listed on Concord Ave. that fits the description. I'm not sure of policy, so I'm not linking, but it's easily found on Crime Reports, zip code 22903.
Click to expand...
If the rules say you can't link it, then you can't post about it, either. All information should be linked to an acceptable source, which this one seems to be.

Also, it is okay to link to RSO listings in the vicinity of a crime or disappearance.

Hope that helps.
 
Jmm124567 said:
If JM raped and killed Hannah then I have a feeling it was on pure impulse because he obviously didn't plan it out with him being well known in the mall and being with her and taking her to Tempo where he is apparently a regular were people can ID him.
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Maybe. But, think of this, when you drink any liquid, what goes in must come out. What if Hannah was upset, crying, needing a bathroom like NOW? Now imagine JM walks up to her says oh things can't be that bad, sunshine! Or, let's turn that frown upside down! What's going on? Maybe at that point Hannah says she needs a bathroom so he escorts her into the Tempo for that reason. He orders himself a drink, and could have ordered her a coke, coffee, water, and suggests she sits down for a bit, and talk. She's in a public place with others around. So what's the harm? She could have said she got turned around, and feels lost, or her friends are waiting for her at such and such place. He offers her a ride there, telling her it isn't safe to be out walking around by herself that time of night...

In that theory, patrons might likely be drinking themself and not notice them leaving, or even being there! And up to that point, nothing illegal or harmful has occurred. Just two people, sitting at the bar area or in a booth/table talking. Nothing unusual at all. In fact, thinking about that now, it's surprising anyone did take notice! Unless they noticed Hannah's top. That would be the only thing that would have caught my eye, not because it was provocative, but because it wasn't a top I'm use to seeing. But even if someone did notice them, again, nothing illegal had occurred!!

It's what went on after that...whether he did drop her off somewhere, whether she left walking, etc. It will be interesting to find out at what time JM's car was noted to be leaving the area after the Tempo incident. If it was immediately, or if it appeared to take a few minutes after getting to the car before he left, etc. It's even possible Hannah DID leave there walking, and he followed and picked her up. We don't know! We hopefully will know more evidence soon, but sadly, we're a long way from finding Hannah. I keep hoping to hear LE say they have his vehicle turning into his road to the apartment at such and such time, and that will close the gap as to how far away Hannah could possible be, IF she was riding with him. Again...only a starting point. Just not enough clues to figure out further at this point.

I am almost positive that he didn't put her near UVA Hospital. There are LOTS of cameras in that area. It's all the back roads that worry me. No matter who the possible perp is, many areas that she may not ever be found. That's the hard pill to swallow. Landowners will hopefully be out baling hay soon, watching areas for vultures flying, and hunters should be out as well. Many hunters do hunt the same land for years, so are more apt to notice something out of place, or strong odors, etc. Praying if they do, they don't just figure it's a deer someone else shot, that has died later. I pray they will investigate any odors and know that Hannah is missing. Maybe lots of flyers, even credit card size ones can be put at local gas stations, places people buy ammo, local 'gathering' places, etc. So many interstates in that area that could lead to out of the area quickly as well in any direction!

:moo:
 
MOD NOTE: Stop posting erroneous media reports, and leave the Facebook rumors ON Facebook. Do not post them here.

Thanks.
 
msteach said:
Agreed. I wasn't saying that presumption of innocence is listed in the Constitution. I'm just saying that I'm, personally, in the "innocent until proven guilty camp".

Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights are the ones that I think people have been forgetting here. All of those things that you study in criminal procedure classes in law school...that sort of thing. So...the fact that he doesn't want to talk to the LE without Assistance of Counsel is a right as far as I see it. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
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JM has had ample opportunity to procure an attorney, imo. At any time, he could have talked to LE with his attorney present. JM has chosen not to go this route.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html

On Friday, police conducted a search of Matthew’s vehicle, a 1998 burnt orange Chrysler coupe, which was parked in front of his apartment. While police were there, an interaction with residents of the complex led police to seek a search warrant for Matthew’s apartment while he was inside, Pleasants said.

Business owners and people who frequent the mall said they are familiar with Matthew, a well-known and distinctive figure on the mall and within the area’s bar scene, with his big-barreled physique, goatee and dreadlocks.


Graham had been drinking with friends on the night of Sept. 12, and at some point after midnight she headed outside and apparently started walking in the wrong direction. She texted friends that she was disoriented, but she ultimately found her way to the downtown mall, which she recognized.
 
gitana1 said:
Holy smokes.



Wth? So the dread guy isn't JM? How many men were glomming onto her that night?



What page is that?
Click to expand...

So has JM really been cleared or we don't know? A poster below this said they would delete DailyMail link, can't trust them. How do you know it's false info? Should we just until it can be verified one way or the other?
 
I've been thinking about why Hannah would go anywhere with JM. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with - and I say reasonable because that's the way she's been described by those who knew her - is that he offered her a ride either back home or to the bar/party she had been looking for. Suppose he said, I was just going to have a quick drink first and then I'll take you. If she was tired and didn't want to bother a friend, it's entirely possible that's all it took for him to get her in his car. He may have even told her that he used to be a cab driver which made her feel safe.

Hopefully, later today we will hear there is forensic evidence to prove she did, in fact, get into the car with him.
 
ksj3 said:
I don't think the bouncer is WG. WG was across the street, in the alcove. This is new information from a new source, seemingly, who should have witnessed both men and Hannah.
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I'm still wondering about the group of guys that were pointing and gesturing and possibly signaling.

They sure seemed to be noticing or talking about something.

I hope if they've not heard about Hannah (NOT wanting the debate over if people do or don't or should or whatever) being missing that someone's able to ID some or any of them and they'll be spoken to.

And if they've heard, I hope they shared what they saw.

And if anyone even recalls friends/family saying they were out that night, even if they aren't sure they were exactly in the right area, I hope they mention Hannah's case on the off chance that those others don't know in case they might have helpful observations also.
 
WhitegateGirl said:
We have no name other than WG, because LE is protecting WG's identity--and his reputation--since they haven't enough information to arrest him and they seem to believe his story. Our POI has not been given the same consideration. IMO, both or neither should be named.
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LE didn't release his name....
 
TravelingBug said:
I'm still wondering about the group of guys that were pointing and gesturing and possibly signaling.

They sure seemed to be noticing or talking about something.

I hope if they've not heard about Hannah (NOT wanting the debate over if people do or don't or should or whatever) being missing that someone's able to ID some or any of them and they'll be spoken to.

And if they've heard, I hope they shared what they saw.

And if anyone even recalls friends/family saying they were out that night, even if they aren't sure they were exactly in the right area, I hope they mention Hannah's case on the off chance that those others don't know in case they might have helpful observations also.
Click to expand...
I agree. In my opinion they were definitely egging her on or talking to her in some way. They are witnesses. Hopefully they've come forward.
 
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