VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

[mirv22]

WG said he stopped following, but the video shows him still following as she walks with JM

Quick note about this. There is a very short distance between Sal's (where WG was seen starting to follow) and Tuels (where JM was seen with Hannah). Given that short distance, JM had probably just caught up with Hannah. WG was still following to see what their interaction was. He was already walking in that direction anyway (in the Sal's video), so we probably was just going to continue onto his original destination.

 

[bogart64]

THOUGHT.... TUNNELS.. I know this has been brought up briefly but JM worked for UVA Hospital and no doubt is familiar with the tunnels. I used to work someplace there was underground tunnels and we were shown them for a number of reasons...


http://www.c-ville.com/UVA_scrutinizes_illicit_explorers/#.VCFuwOdRfgA
The steam tunnels were built in 1950 and almost immediately attracted a few illicit visitors, according to UVA news archives. One report includes a story from former UVA History Officer Raymond Bice, who said male students used the tunnels to access the nursing students’ dormitory prior to formal co-education. “A locked gate was installed in the passage to McKim [Hall, the nurses’ dorm], but students persisted in roaming the tunnels,” says an old story published by UVA’s Office of Media Relations.

I went looking to see if these tunnels were in or near the hospital and they are... wonder if they have been checked??

 

[mirv22]

THOUGHT.... TUNNELS.. I know this has been brought up briefly but JM worked for UVA Hospital and no doubt is familiar with the tunnels. I used to work someplace there was underground tunnels and we were shown them for a number of reasons...


http://www.c-ville.com/UVA_scrutinizes_illicit_explorers/#.VCFuwOdRfgA
The steam tunnels were built in 1950 and almost immediately attracted a few illicit visitors, according to UVA news archives. One report includes a story from former UVA History Officer Raymond Bice, who said male students used the tunnels to access the nursing students’ dormitory prior to formal co-education. “A locked gate was installed in the passage to McKim [Hall, the nurses’ dorm], but students persisted in roaming the tunnels,” says an old story published by UVA’s Office of Media Relations.

I went looking to see if these tunnels were in or near the hospital and they are... wonder if they have been checked??

I believe and from what another user posted, the tunnels have been locked up and secured. I don't think they are accessible at all anymore. But perhaps there are secret ways that just aren't as well known.

 

[MLE]

The issue with the SSN# is not case specific it is just a issue in and of itself. It is just not acceptable procedure.

It's a lack of professionalism. And it's incompetence.

 

[bakerlady]

WG said he stopped following, but the video shows him still following as she walks with JM

We don't know that was WG. All we see is blurry images. There is no way possible to decipher who that was following her in the Tuel's video compared to the Sal's video.

I have perfect vision and I see blurry blobs. As I said before, unless you have Superman's eyes there is just no way.

 

[Skigirl]

For people who are posting that they are sick of one line of discussion or another, it's pretty easy to make that go away without continuing to draw attention to it by posting for people to stop talking about it, which just ends up eliciting even more comments. If there's a user that's droning on and on about something you don't care about, you can click on the user's name, go to their profile, and hit "ignore user" (or, "ignore member", or "poster" -- I can't remember exactly). You can always unignore them later after that line of discussion has played itself out for a while. Peace! :loveyou:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

TODAY reported this morning that LE hopes to review more videos today.

I have a question for locals. It sounds to me like the city refusing to put cameras at the mall, citing privacy concerns, was pretty common knowledge amongst the locals. Yes?

My train of thought is that if so, then wouldn't a predator, someone local, consider that area would be a safe place to hunt for potential victims? I'm just saying that whoever took Hannah may have had a false sense of security in that area.

 

[loveisthemovement]

Crossing my fingers for forensics results and a presser today. Or just to find Hannah.

 

[jamicat]

Jamicat,

First off you are ASSUMING that LE did not talk to him. I've served many search warrants in my career and have always tried to talk to the person first. They could not hold him or his roommates at the apartment. It does not mean that they were not watching him when he left but they can't exactly follow him to where he went and start questioning him again. No doubt if they handled it the way you would have liked, you probably would have found something else to nitpick.

If Matthew had nothing to hide he would have talked to investigators that day. I know if someone came to my door to search my car I first off wouldn't leave the location where my vehicle was, I would talk to investigators to clear my name, and would ask what I could do to help...

No, I am not so assuming. LE did talk to him and his roommates. Also, yes, I agree JM's reaction was not normal. At this point, I'd have gotten an attorney involved immediately and yes, I'd have watched them search my car, not disappear But then we don't know what LE told them that they disappeared as they did. Though we like to say this is not about race,black men do not fare well in criminal investigations. But I am surprised that LE did not have resources to follow the owner of the car that is so important that a search warrent was issued for it. The person could talk, a girl is missing, could still be alive, anything possible to get him to give info should have been the concern, not turning a back on the guy which, yes, LE did. For all we know Hannah could have been a live somewhere at that time.,maybe they went off to finish her off and truly hide the body now that LE was right there. Car wasn't going anywhere. The people were and did. Even if JM took off, the roommates might have cooperated given the seriousness fo the situation. All three men just left. At this point, it would be understandable if none of them talked.

You are right that we do not know how investigators approached the men. I would hope that they pretty much begged for the men to please talk to them--not gone straight to the car, but tried to get any info out of those men, explaining that a girl's life might be at stake. Please, any and all info about wherabouts, did you see her, etc, etc before proceeding with the car search, and then making sure all three men were followed when they left. THey did not flee--that would have been released, they just left. I think LE could have done more there.

A lot of what actually happened will likely come out later. I think the car was on the LE agenda as a prize not just because of Hannah's disappearance. I don't think Hannah was the focus when they went to the apt with the search warrent. SOmething about the car really had LE hot.

 

[bakerlady]

Of course he's in innocent until proven guilty.

But I'm sick of the LE bashing in this case. We see the top of the iceburg here. They aren't telling us what every officer is doing in this case, but there is speculation of tunnel vision by them. I'm sure that LE are looking at more than just one avenue.

Why should I bother "imagining" it's another case? It's not another case. It's the case of a young girl missing and a petulant man refusing to co-operate and then hiding out. I don't care about him or how he's feeling at the moment. His actions have been evasive and unhelpful. If it was my child missing I'd hope the PD went as all out as CPD and Chief Longo has. Well done to them for working so hard!

It is not bashing to point out the glaring truth that they messed up big time. I respect LE. I also respect justice and fairness and I expect LE to uphold the same values.

 

[SweetT]

I wonder if LE is going to get another search warrant to search the property of wherever JM's family took his belongings, who knows they might have missed something.
I also agree that if JM is somehow connected to the other case and is guilty in this case that they would not find Hannah in town, the other perp did very well at finding a secluded area and I would expect the same here if they are one in the same..not some place right in town. Sure hope they have been able to ping JM's phone and have gotten witnesses to which way that car went that night..Would be nice to know what time he got home so as to know how far out of town he could have went etc.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Chief said in earlier presser that if more video was obtained, it would be released. Now we know there is video 1) of Hannah and JM together after Tempo and 2) video of orange car, in which Hannah can not be identified. Thoughts on why these haven't been released?

 

[achilton1987]

Re: the rapture bouncer comment. When I search on my map, it shows rapture and sals only 195 feet apart. That does make the WG as bouncer more plausible. That would certainly explain a lot. Including why he would stop following, to get back to work...

A bouncer is not going to leave a door he is supposed to stay at on a hunch, He is there to check IDs. plus you see him walking by the actual night club in Sals (you see a girl enter the door)

 

[Twinbabyg]

https://www.facebook.com/ParkSlaybaugh?fref=nf

HANNAH GRAHAM BREAKING: Police tell me clothing was taken from Jesse Matthew's apartment while serving their search warrant yesterday. Police will not say who clothing belonged to.

 

[cluciano63]

Searches have to be done in the immediate area surrounding where she was last seen, just to try to clear those areas and make sure she did not end up somewhere she could have gone on foot, as best they can. Same with Christina Mooris in TX, where it is pretty obvious she was taken away in a car-yet TES went in and searched locally for a few days.

Unless Hannah stumbled and never got up, or a perp on foot assaulted her, she is not likely to be anywhere close to the mall, Imo. That is what makes these cases sometimes almost impossible-which way did perp go with victim? How to decide where to use man hours? And in most cases of this type, the victim is seldom found by these organized searches. Still...they have to do them. It is insanely frustrating knowing that someone knows where she is, but really, expecting or counting on the suspect to help you out is not realistic, Imo. If a killer/predator is involved, he is not interested in the pain of Hannah's family.

JM's phone pings may be of use, if he is the perp and the crime was unplanned...he may not have disabled his phone. He does seem to be lacking in some basic life knowledge, Imo, displayed by the way he approached LE with an attorney list.

Jmo

 

[Faithandhope]

https://www.facebook.com/ParkSlaybaugh

Parker Slaybaugh 8News
9 minutes ago
HANNAH GRAHAM BREAKING: Police tell me clothing was taken from Jesse Matthew's apartment while serving their search warrant yesterday. Police will not say who clothing belonged to.

 

[bakerlady]

THOUGHT.... TUNNELS.. I know this has been brought up briefly but JM worked for UVA Hospital and no doubt is familiar with the tunnels. I used to work someplace there was underground tunnels and we were shown them for a number of reasons...


http://www.c-ville.com/UVA_scrutinizes_illicit_explorers/#.VCFuwOdRfgA
The steam tunnels were built in 1950 and almost immediately attracted a few illicit visitors, according to UVA news archives. One report includes a story from former UVA History Officer Raymond Bice, who said male students used the tunnels to access the nursing students’ dormitory prior to formal co-education. “A locked gate was installed in the passage to McKim [Hall, the nurses’ dorm], but students persisted in roaming the tunnels,” says an old story published by UVA’s Office of Media Relations.

I went looking to see if these tunnels were in or near the hospital and they are... wonder if they have been checked??

http://thelittleonesstillwonder.blogspot.com/2010/12/92-spelunk-steam-tunnels.html

http://wondrouswanderings.blogspot.com/2009/05/getting-arrested-foreseable-getting.html


I sure hope they have searched them.

 

[jamicat]

The issue with the SSN# is not case specific it is just a issue in and of itself. It is just not acceptable procedure. If my SSN# was broadcast to the whole world I would be livid, ESPECIALLY if I was innocent.

And here it is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not trial by media.

Imagine if this was another case. Perhaps it was a wealthy entrepreneur accused of animal cruelty (whatever) and his SSN# was out there and he was targeted by hackers and his whole livelihood was destroyed and then it turns out he was innocent the whole time.

LE would be in soooo much trouble. Law suits galore.

That is not what's happening. LE isn't getting into trouble for this. I've seen this before and not just for POIs but in witness and police reports that make their way into the public domain because they are of public record and SSNs are too often on the report, as well as address, phone #, etc. All of which should be redacted and isn't, and it's an "oh well, oops" response. Since they claim it's unintentional there is no consequence .

The SSN issue is something bigger than what happened here with JM. It's carelessness, and they also don't care because no one is coming down HARD on them about this. It can affect any and all of us when LE isn't taking the care.

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

Chief said in earlier presser that if more video was obtained, it would be released. Now we know there is video 1) of Hannah and JM together after Tempo and 2) video of orange car, in which Hannah can not be identified. Thoughts on why these haven't been released?

Yeah. This part makes no sense to me. If they had video of them coming out, wouldn't they have video of them going in? And, if they had that video then there would not have been the hullabaloo about the POI's different descriptions.

Maybe they do have the video. Maybe they don't!

 

[bogart64]

I don't think Hannah was the focus when they went to the apt with the search warrent. SOmething about the car really had LE hot.

This may be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on Websleuths.. done trying to rationalize it with ya.