VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

[Skigirl]

I keep going back to where her final destination was supposed to be. Was it Tempos? or was it a party? Her last text was to a friend saying she was lost and going to a party. What party? someone has to know what party she was going to. Someone had to have told her where this party was. She must have texted someone or someone told her where this party was located. She had to have heard from someone and said "im going there". Someone knows. Someone knows something among her friends and is not telling or LE is not telling or both have decided that her destination is not important enough to investigate more thoroughly.

Or someone else texted that last message. However I think they need to believe that she sent that last text and figure out that someone among her friends knows something.

When Longo mentioned not knowing if it was autocorrect, since they knew she wasn't near that intersection, I think he was referring to the street names being autocorrected (seems implausible.. but possible).

Another poster said here, "what if instead of lost, she had tried to type 'almost' and it autocorrected?" I tried it on my iphone. The first time I did it, 'lmost' auto corrected itself to 'lost'. What if she DID get a ride and texted her friends that she was 'almost to the intersection,' but didn't know exactly where the party was (if she was trying to go to a party)? That would make the scenario look quite, quite different, especially given the set of violent attacks right near the intersection she mentioned. This scenario will either look more, or less plausible, as evidence of her intentions, where the party was, where is vehicle was last seen and so forth, become evident.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Thanks so much for link. I got a chuckle from his landlord saying that he left his tomato plants behind and she just didn't understand... but anywhoo...

This section on the public defender stood out:



It sounds like the public defender fully expects to end up working on JM's case. I wish they would just go ahead and make the assignment and get the situation back under some sort of orderly control. All the drama isn't helping anyone, including HG and her family.

Another tidbit from this article - the two roommates were a couple.

 

[Perplexed 123]

Tunnels have been locked down for years. Liability and all. Sure some determined enough could gain access - but that's true about anywhere.

Raymond Bice: Best. Lecturer. Ever. RIP.

someone who grew up in the area would know them, from playing around the area as a young lad

do not get "tunnel vision", she "vanished off the face of the earth"

my minds gone in to overdrive with this one

 

[s3cr3tag3nt]

someone who grew up in the area would know them, from playing around the area as a young lad

do not get "tunnel vision", she "vanished off the face of the earth"

my minds gone in to overdrive with this one

Punny.

 

[Perplexed 123]

Punny.

the symbolism of the toy rabbit. rabbits live in tunnels

 

[achilton1987]

I HAVE A GOOD THEORY I THINK:

JM was in the mall looking for a women to pick up

+Why is he in the downtown mall at 1am ALONE? He is 32 you would expect him to be partying with his friends. He is hunting for a girl that's what he's doing

+There are multiple bars/clubs in the mall. It is a prime spot to pick up a girl especially a drunk one

+A poster on here said that they have a friend who works with JM at the medical center and that there friend and some employee's think he is a nice guy (I have seen a few people who know him say this and this could be how he gains a women's trust) but he stares at the women in a creepy way and has no sense of personal space. His landlord at his apartments just recently talked to reporters and said he is generally nice and kind but can get demanding at times

+He saw HG alone and how she is dressed (I'm not blaming her), he loops around, follows and approaches her and put his arm around her since he has no sense of personal space. HG may have felt it was strange but just acted friendly. If she was disoriented like WG apparently says he may have saw that and took advantage of it

+He takes her to Tempo to get her more drunk and possibly slips a drug in her drink or she may not have even drank any alcohol

+I think HG was looking for a bar, was suppose to meet 1 or more friends at a bar. I think she was looking for a bar based on her behavior at McGrady's and the fact that she is mainly walking on the main roads, if she was looking for a house party she would be walking on the side streets in the residential area. I think she went into the mall intentionally since there are multiple bars down there. She is also dressed up like she is going to a club/bar

+Some people think they may have known each other and she may have been meeting him in the mall but they probably don't because multiple things don't add up. He most likely has a cell phone so why wouldn't she text him and have him come pick her up in his car. Also multiple articles say that she was texting her friends while she was walking around telling them she is lost and I would guess she was asking them for some directions. And in the mall if they knew each other when he is cutting through the middle she is right there he clearly sees her and he would say her name to stop her. And if she knew him and was going to the mall to meet him she would have been looking around for him and he is right there walking across to her side and she walks by him. That activity in Sal's video shows that they probably don't know each other

To add another theory to this. HG knows JM through sports (she is active in softball and he coaches football they could have been at the same field at one time practicing)What if HG told JM that she thought someone was following her (WG) so JM puts his arm around her to show that he knows her and maybe to get WG off the trail and that why they go to Tempos, to lose WG.

 

[chipmunk]

Thx for keeping me awake with flashy graphics.

 

[bakerlady]

BBM: Wow. Really?

I hope Hannah is found safe and well, but if not she is found promptly so her family doesn't have to go through the agony of not knowing where she is or what happened to her.

IF JM is the person responsible for Hannah's disappearance would you still want someone to "go after" LE? JM has disappeared. He's refused to co-operate with LE. He's the last person known to have been with Hannah. What would you prefer LE to do? Send him a calligraphy written invitation asking him to maybe pop by and chat over tea and biscuits but only if he wants to?

The issue with the SSN# is not case specific it is just a issue in and of itself. It is just not acceptable procedure. If my SSN# was broadcast to the whole world I would be livid, ESPECIALLY if I was innocent.

And here it is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not trial by media.

Imagine if this was another case. Perhaps it was a wealthy entrepreneur accused of animal cruelty (whatever) and his SSN# was out there and he was targeted by hackers and his whole livelihood was destroyed and then it turns out he was innocent the whole time.

LE would be in soooo much trouble. Law suits galore.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Wow. Wow.

I'm trying to remember how it was worded in the first press conference, but the implication was that they found something in the car that led them to get a warrant for the apartment. Perhaps that's what police wanted us to infer.

In one of the previous threads, someone linked a report, maybe a tweet?, that he had been seen at his apartment with a white girl, who did not match Hannah ' s description. Perhaps that was used to get the warrent?

ETA, the difference in description may have been downplayed, given the inaccuracies of eyewitness descriptions.

 

[bogart64]

I've said it before that as a black man in the south being accused of doing harm to a white female is a precarious position, statistically. On top of that, the female is a UVA student and there are privileges conferred in general to those associated with the school when it comes to the town dealings.

I don't think the way he is acting makes sense as an innocent. Highly unusual, IMO. But then it's unusual to have LE come with a search warrent for your car just like that. Not much said about what was said to JM when they went for the car. I would have thought that a lot of effort, like all the effort in the world, all that LE could muster would have been made by their very top questioners to get some info, any info out of JM then, about Hannah since time is of the essence in these cases. It seems to me the focus was not on the men at the apt at all, as they searched the car, and what LE says, is that the men were GONE when they went back to the apt. Odd to me. You have so much info on a car that you have a search warrent but you are not watching the owner of the car when he fits the scrip of the last person who was with Hannah Graham, so he slips away just like that, when she could still have been a live??? Where was the focus that night? Something going on here and that car was v-e-r-y important for a reason, and more important than trying to wheedle info out of the owner and person last ided with Hannah. Car wasn't going anywhere. The people certainly could and did. Why wasn't focus on JM and roommates? Why weren't they watched and followed? When the #!1 priority should have been getting info on a possibly alive Hannah whose chances of being alive were diminishing by the second.

Jamicat,

First off you are ASSUMING that LE did not talk to him. I've served many search warrants in my career and have always tried to talk to the person first. They could not hold him or his roommates at the apartment. It does not mean that they were not watching him when he left but they can't exactly follow him to where he went and start questioning him again. No doubt if they handled it the way you would have liked, you probably would have found something else to nitpick.

If Matthew had nothing to hide he would have talked to investigators that day. I know if someone came to my door to search my car I first off wouldn't leave the location where my vehicle was, I would talk to investigators to clear my name, and would ask what I could do to help...

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Me too. I'm kind of getting PO'ed at what is going on here. 1200 volunteers helped search only in Charlottesville when all logic and past cases tell us that a body would not be found in the middle of a highly populated area. Why did the search stop after one day? Why one expand the area further out into the county until something is found? They need to be in remote areas, farmland, woods, lakes, etc. Not in the middle of residential neighborhoods.

I just don't get it. In other cases you hear about seeing search teams off the side of the road in the woods and such, I have not heard any of that here. Maybe it's just me tho.

Search science doesn't work that way. Searchers need a point of reference to START searching from. You can't just say SEARCH ALL THE LAND AND WOODS, because there's far too much of it. They are assigned tasks based on known information, leads, cell pings, previous evidence found, etc. I suspect the searches within the city limits were primarily hoping to find discarded evidence, or perhaps the odor of a carefully-hidden disposed body. And these searches, especially those with the scent dogs, provided leads, and helped to get us where we are today. They are most definitely searching areas outside the city -- when the leads, evidence and other known information drive them there.

 

[Skigirl]

When Longo mentioned not knowing if it was autocorrect, since they knew she wasn't near that intersection, I think he was referring to the street names being autocorrected (seems implausible.. but possible).

Another poster said here, "what if instead of lost, she had tried to type 'almost' and it autocorrected?" I tried it on my iphone. The first time I did it, 'lmost' auto corrected itself to 'lost'. What if she DID get a ride and texted her friends that she was 'almost to the intersection,' but didn't know exactly where the party was (if she was trying to go to a party)? That would make the scenario look quite, quite different, especially given the set of violent attacks right near the intersection she mentioned. This scenario will either look more, or less plausible, as evidence of her intentions, where the party was, where is vehicle was last seen and so forth, become evident.

the more I think about it, "almost at the intersection come find me" seems like something I'd text to friends if I was getting a ride from someone to a party that I had been told was near a certain intersection, especially if there had been a whole bunch of earlier ones along the lines of, "hey, WTF, where are you, I thought you were coming?" and "I'm confused - headed up ____ street but now I'm on _____". Longo said that her texts that evening indicated she was confused as to her whereabouts. After an hour of texting to friends her various wrong locations, she may have been pretty anxious not to leave things to chance and have them meet her and show her the way.

 

[bogart64]

In one of the previous threads, someone linked a report, maybe a tweet?, that he had been seen at his apartment with a white girl, who did not match Hannah ' s description. Perhaps that was used to get the warrent?

During this morning's press event on FOX NEWS the Captain said while they were going through the evidence they collected from the first search warrant they realized they needed to go back for several other items, obtained a search warrant, went back yesterday and that they were able to get those items.. He would not state what the items were.

 

[cluciano63]

It's my opinion because jesse was in the video and because he is a frequent visitor to the area(mall area) and the fact that he was in Tempo with her was reason enough for a search warrant for the vehicle and once there the conversation with neighbors then led to the search warrant for the apartment. jmo idk

Yet not enough to detain him for questioning? They can go through everything you own, basically, and take things but not you?

 

[CHERIE.T]

BBM: Wow. Really?

I hope Hannah is found safe and well, but if not she is found promptly so her family doesn't have to go through the agony of not knowing where she is or what happened to her.

IF JM is the person responsible for Hannah's disappearance would you still want someone to "go after" LE? JM has disappeared. He's refused to co-operate with LE. He's the last person known to have been with Hannah. What would you prefer LE to do? Send him a calligraphy written invitation asking him to maybe pop by and chat over tea and biscuits but only if he wants to?

:rockon:

 

[SuzDuJour]

Re: the rapture bouncer comment. When I search on my map, it shows rapture and sals only 195 feet apart. That does make the WG as bouncer more plausible. That would certainly explain a lot. Including why he would stop following, to get back to work...

WG said he stopped following, but the video shows him still following as she walks with JM

 

[thinksalot]

News stories say she was at a frat party after dinner. Was she slipped something in a drink at the frat party? But perhaps being really drunk can make a person as disoriented as she seems to be.

 

[jamicat]

BBM: Wow. Really?

I hope Hannah is found safe and well, but if not she is found promptly so her family doesn't have to go through the agony of not knowing where she is or what happened to her.

IF JM is the person responsible for Hannah's disappearance would you still want someone to "go after" LE? JM has disappeared. He's refused to co-operate with LE. He's the last person known to have been with Hannah. What would you prefer LE to do? Send him a calligraphy written invitation asking him to maybe pop by and chat over tea and biscuits but only if he wants to?

Yes, I do. I would not flinch if LE had gotten info to find Hannah out of JM crossing some lines with a life at stake but to blatently put out a poster with SSN and info not relevant to this case on it is wrong, when the person is wanted only for reckless driving. This SSN stuff is something LE is being very careless about all over the country to those who are just witnesses and who are cooperating with the police and they will not stop until some tough consequences occur. I've seen it several times. How would you like your SSN in a report that is linked when all you did was cooperate as a witness, so that the public at large have it.? this is what is happening because there is no consequence to them. What if LE doesn't come up with info to tie JM in with what happeend to Hannah--they have insufficient info to arrest him, you know, and that all that comes out of this is this poster was released on an innocent man WITH SSN released? Oh, well, would be LE response.

Frankly, I think JM is not acting like an innocent man, he's acted foolishly, and probably looking at what's out there, he has heavy involvment with Hannah Graham. The odds are good he does, so it's not him, I am so concerned about as the procedure and the absolute carelessness LE is using that is their potocol. They've been doing this for years and won't stop because there are no dire consequences to them, thought there are to the MANY INNOCENT people they are doing this to. Yes, it does involve YOU and all of us, because this SSN thing is happening for all of those who even are on a police report as a witness, not as a POI. Even as victim. They need to take this seriously and change things just like the rest of the world, including private citizens, have had to do. No SSNs on released documents, and if you are doing it too many times unintentionally, your proecedures are careless and negligent and its not unintentional.

 

[LittleRose]

Some people have said that race has nothing to do with this case. I hate to break it to you, but race is going to become a bigger and bigger part of this case. Let’s see:

1. There will be lots of criticism that the case is only getting the attention it is because Hannah is a white girl.

2. Some people will explain the media’s handling of anything of this case due to it being a black-on-white murder.

3. “Blame the black guy” is a very popular trope. In this case, the white guy was seen following her too, and he blamed the black guy, people will say. Many will just see that as “unbelievable” and like it has to be a joke.

4. There will many, who will say that he is being targeted because of his race and LE needed a scapegoat.

5. There will be criticism that he is being overcharged, and that a white frat boy would not be getting 1st degree murder charges for an unintentional death, if that happens.

6. You will have people who will say others are only defending him because of his race.

7. And of course, you will have plenty of stupid jokes about “Obama’s son".

You are not going to be able to escape discussions about race in this case. When/If they arrest Jesse, it is just going to get more and more prominent. It will be part of every comment you see, in some way or another.

I agree. Sadly, "race" becomes an issue in most violent crimes when an African American is on one side of the courtroom and a Caucasian is on the other, regardless of who was the victim or perpetrator.

 

[blefuscu]

The issue with the SSN# is not case specific it is just a issue in and of itself. It is just not acceptable procedure. If my SSN# was broadcast to the whole world I would be livid, ESPECIALLY if I was innocent.

And here it is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not trial by media.

Imagine if this was another case. Perhaps it was a wealthy entrepreneur accused of animal cruelty (whatever) and his SSN# was out there and he was targeted by hackers and his whole livelihood was destroyed and then it turns out he was innocent the whole time.

LE would be in soooo much trouble. Law suits galore.

Of course he's in innocent until proven guilty.

But I'm sick of the LE bashing in this case. We see the top of the iceburg here. They aren't telling us what every officer is doing in this case, but there is speculation of tunnel vision by them. I'm sure that LE are looking at more than just one avenue.

Why should I bother "imagining" it's another case? It's not another case. It's the case of a young girl missing and a petulant man refusing to co-operate and then hiding out. I don't care about him or how he's feeling at the moment. His actions have been evasive and unhelpful. If it was my child missing I'd hope the PD went as all out as CPD and Chief Longo has. Well done to them for working so hard!