VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

[ninij9]

https://twitter.com/LiveNewsTonight/status/514813424866717696/photo/1

Now LE is collecting evidence at Hannah's home.

Really??? Is that SOP?

 

[DavidC]

To those who wish to convict Jesse Matthew based solely on the fact that he's been charged by the authorities..........I hope to never have you as a "jury of my peers".

 

[pittie_mcclure]

How can you be certain he didn't have an accomplice?

Sorry I should have quoted the posts I was referring to. I have no idea that he didn't - I was talking about the implication that some of us who aren't 100% convinced of JM's innocence may be friend's of his trying to plant reasonable doubt. Sorry!

 

[Stones]

Wow, yeah...that was me who posted that a while back...maybe others. I don't think you are being snobby, just a tad narrow minded. I think that it is very hard to explain what attracts one person to another. People I have met from England don't seem to be as hung up on social things as much as Americans are...as far as class issues. Just my opinion...

Not sure if this was mentioned before but she grew up and went to high school in one of the most diverse areas of Northern Virginia. The school she went to has a racial make-up that is only about 40% white and 45% black and hispanic. It's also a school and area that has multi-million dollar homes in Mount Vernon as well as a lot of public housing (off what we call the Rt. 1 corridor).

I mention this only to say that like most Virginians and especially those from Northern Virginia, the "racial and social divides" really don't exist as some people have indicated they do. Most people are extremely open-minded and we're all very used to the mix of people of all types/class/countries/backgrounds. People are people.

I doubt she had much of a thought about the guy's racial or socio-economic status and saw him (perhaps incorrectly) as just a friendly guy trying to help. It's not her being naive, it is what it is and just might explain why she wouldn't have had an alarm (as people shouldn't) that went off for interacting with someone different than her.

 

[Jo in Calif]

This is just MOO, and I think they have the right suspect in her disappearance,but for some reason I think this is going to turn out to be a very sad case with this suspect.
IMO He has not done this before, is not connected to any of the other cases talked about here, he is not connected to a sex trafficking ring and he is the only one responsible for her disappearance.

 

[Dogkarma]

Exactly, They have nothing. They have him and her together and not, at the mall area and they have her missing. Not one piece of evidence that he is responsible for her demise or disappearance. I am waiting for evidence, until then he is innocent minus the alleged traffic violations. jmo idk

I understand completely. But from the get go, I thought the POI was the responsible party. Maybe after all these years I'm just jaded?? And really, this is only my screwed up perspective on life....

 

[Phoebeb]

I just read the arrest reports that say TRESPASS AFTER FORBIDDEN - this is probably a dumb question but what was he trespassing on or in?

I wonder why JM didn't call the attorney he hired in that case, (modsnip)

 

[eddy]

I saw it too. Somewhere???

See post #696. Sorry I don't know how to put two posts together

 

[EGirl]

This is just MOO, and I think they have the right suspect in her disappearance,but for some reason I think this is going to turn out to be a very sad case with this suspect.
IMO He has not done this before, is not connected to any of the other cases talked about here, he is not connected to a sex trafficking ring and he is the only one responsible for her disappearance.

Hi Jo... I too think he's the perp. BUT, I still will not be shocked if they link him to MH.

 

[cluciano63]

I am so confused about what LE might have that would indicate "intent to defile" rather than "hoped to have sex" that night. And abduction.

I would guess, without a witness, they would have to have a "rape kit" of some sort, i.e rope, duct tap, and whatever else rapists use.

I noticed that in VA, though probably not enforced, it is illegal for two unmarried people to have sex. Could an obscure law like that affect the way charges are worded and used?

 

[Fireweed]

To those who wish to convict Jesse Matthew based solely on the fact that he's been charged by the authorities..........I hope to never have you as a "jury of my peers".

I have not seen anyone say that.

 

[Ashley114]

To those who wish to convict Jesse Matthew based solely on the fact that he's been charged by the authorities..........I hope to never have you as a "jury of my peers".

I truly don't think there's many on here calling him guilty based solely on the recent charge... we are calling him guilty based on everything we've learned over the last 12 days.

 

[ZsaZsa]

This is just MOO, and I think they have the right suspect in her disappearance,but for some reason I think this is going to turn out to be a very sad case with this suspect.
IMO He has not done this before, is not connected to any of the other cases talked about here, he is not connected to a sex trafficking ring and he is the only one responsible for her disappearance.

The commonwealth Attorney addresses the rumors that he is linked with other cases.

http://www.blueridgelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/AM-Press-release.jpg

 

[Eileen730]

Re: looking for evidence in Hannah's apartment...

Is this the first we've heard of them checking HER apartment?? Wouldn't they have done that right away, check her computer, look for journals, etc... Any Rx meds...

didn't they say her home?

 

[Fireweed]

I am so confused about what LE might have that would indicate "intent to defile" rather than "hoped to have sex" that night. And abduction.

I would guess, without a witness, they would have to have a "rape kit" of some sort, i.e rope, duct tap, and whatever else rapists use.

I noticed that in VA, though probably not enforced, it is illegal for two unmarried people to have sex. Could an obscure law like that affect the way charges are worded and used?

Really? Where is that law?

 

[teeandcee]

Thats what happened witht he reckless driving warrant. They were following him and didnt pull him over. They didnt even accuse him of running from the police. They could have arrested him right there, if they wanted to.

No, they said they ended pursuit because he was endangering innocent bystanders. Or "bydrivers" if you will. Which IMO was the right thing to do. The chances of him committing another crime while running or hiding out aren't very high. The chances of him injuring an innocent person while driving dangerously evading LE....much higher.

 

[RSC]

Welcome! This has all certainly crossed my mind, but if I apply occam's razor (simplest answer is most likely):
JM clearly sought HG out (video evidence)
Witnesses place him as the last known person with her before she disappeared
He is now currently breaking the law by running from his arrest warrant.

To me, while possible he did nothing, it seems much more complicated to assume that he TRIED to get her to leave with him, failed, and then she met an unfortunate fate with yet another unidentified person. The simplest solution, particularly given the fact that LE has enough evidence--without JM answering any questions, even--for a judge to sign off on an arrest warrant, is that he is guilty of a crime.

Hi all, my first post but have been following the case here since the beginning. I'm not sure if anyone else has already mentioned this but here is what I think.

I think LE does not have any DNA or otherwise solid evidence that Hannah was in the car or the apartment.

Now I thought the new charge of abduction with intent to defile is interesting for two reasons. First off, it's a felony which means if he has fled the state then when he is caught, he can be sent back to Virginia to deal with the Charlottesville police regarding Hannah (whereas the reckless driving charges were misdemeanors and not a cause for extradition). Second of all, I think that because he was seen walking with Hannah with his arm around her when she was apparently very intoxicated, that LE believes he was basically walking her where he wants to go and because she was intoxicated, that she was not able to willingly consent and thus LE considers this to be abduction. As for "intent to defile", that can mean a lot of different things. I am guessing that LE has interviewed witnesses who claim to see/hear JM trying to get Hannah to come home with him or perhaps they removed unused condoms from his car or apartment and because that's the case, it means that JM would have likely had sex with her if Hannah did end up going home with him. There's no telling what evidence LE has to warrant the "intent to defile" charge so of course it's all speculation for now.

So I believe they went to Tempo and that's where their interaction ended after Hannah rejected the idea of going home with him. So JM eventually left in his car alone... but I have no ideas as to where Hannah could have gone once he left without her. I know early on there were eyewitnesses claiming to see her get into his car but I don't know how many witnesses there are or how detailed or how credible they are.

Have there been any witnesses from Tempo that have spoken out to the press about what they saw? And what exactly happened within Tempo? How long were they there? Did it look like Hannah was too drunk to be coherent? Did it look like Hannah and JM were being friendly with each other or was JM making her stay with him against her will?

Obviously this is all just my opinion and I'm sure LE is withholding a ton of information/possible evidence to make their case, but as of right now, I don't feel like we are all that much closer to figuring out exactly what happened and most importantly, finding Hannah.

 

[ninij9]

How can you be certain he didn't have an accomplice?

Or just subscribers to the old "innocent until proven guilty" thingy? Or waiting for actual supporting evidence? Doesn't mean we think he's innocent. We shouldn't "think" anything. MOO

 

[Tracey4AU]

Exactly, They have nothing. They have him and her together and not, at the mall area and they have her missing. Not one piece of evidence that he is responsible for her demise or disappearance. I am waiting for evidence, until then he is innocent minus the alleged traffic violations. jmo idk

With all due respect, that's just it. We don't KNOW what evidence they have or don't have. And being here on this forum is entirely different than being a judge and jury, so I don't have to assume innocence. What I KNOW is that LE is privy to the evidence that we are not, and they felt this charge was warranted, as did the Commonwealth Attorney (or DA or whatever the call them there). Just my opinion, which is contrary to yours, and that's ok.

 

[bakerlady]

I keep thinking about Chief Longo saying 'Hannah's whole world got turned upside down'. He repeated it a few times if IIRC. Perhaps he is implying that she IS likely alive but her life is now complete opposite from what it was before. As if she went from living the normal life of a college student <modsnip>

It appears kidnapping and abduction mean the same thing in Virginia

https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-47

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§ 18.2-47. Abduction and kidnapping defined; punishment.

A. Any person who, by force, intimidation or deception, and without legal justification or excuse, seizes, takes, transports, detains or secretes another person with the intent to deprive such other person of his personal liberty or to withhold or conceal him from any person, authority or institution lawfully entitled to his charge, shall be deemed guilty of "abduction."

B. Any person who, by force, intimidation or deception, and without legal justification or excuse, seizes, takes, transports, detains or secretes another person with the intent to subject him to forced labor or services shall be deemed guilty of "abduction." For purposes of this subsection, the term "intimidation" shall include destroying, concealing, confiscating, withholding, or threatening to withhold a passport, immigration document, or other governmental identification or threatening to report another as being illegally present in the United States.

C. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his duty. The terms "abduction" and "kidnapping" shall be synonymous in this Code. Abduction for which no punishment is otherwise prescribed shall be punished as a Class 5 felony.

D. If an offense under subsection A is committed by the parent of the person abducted and punishable as contempt of court in any proceeding then pending, the offense shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor in addition to being punishable as contempt of court. However, such offense, if committed by the parent of the person abducted and punishable as contempt of court in any proceeding then pending and the person abducted is removed from the Commonwealth by the abducting parent, shall be a Class 6 felony in addition to being punishable as contempt of court.

(Code 1950, §§ 18.1-36, 18.1-37; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1979, c. 663; 1980, c. 506; 1997, c. 747; 2009, c. 662.)

Attempt to defile

https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-48

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§ 18.2-48. Abduction with intent to extort money or for immoral purpose.

Abduction (i) of any person with the intent to extort money or pecuniary benefit, (ii) of any person with intent to defile such person, (iii) of any child under sixteen years of age for the purpose of concubinage or prostitution, (iv) of any person for the purpose of prostitution, or (v) of any minor for the purpose of manufacturing child *advertiser censored* shall be punishable as a Class 2 felony. If the sentence imposed for a violation of (ii), (iii), (iv), or (v) includes a term of confinement less than life imprisonment, the judge shall impose, in addition to any active sentence, a suspended sentence of no less than 40 years. This suspended sentence shall be suspended for the remainder of the defendant's life subject to revocation by the court.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-38; 1960, c. 358; 1966, c. 214; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1993, c. 317; 1997, c. 747; 2006, cc. 853, 914; 2011, c. 785.)

Attempted rape

https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-67.5

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§ 18.2-67.5. Attempted rape, forcible sodomy, object sexual penetration, aggravated sexual battery, and sexual battery.

A. An attempt to commit rape, forcible sodomy, or inanimate or animate object sexual penetration shall be punishable as a Class 4 felony.

B. An attempt to commit aggravated sexual battery shall be a felony punishable as a Class 6 felony.

C. An attempt to commit sexual battery is a Class 1 misdemeanor.

(1981, c. 397; 1993, c. 549.)

c. Abduction (GROOT at 1&#8211;9).
The Commonwealth is not required to prove any carrying (&#8220;asportation&#8221 of the victim to
sustain a conviction for abduction; physical detention is sufficient. Scott v. Commonwealth,
228 Va. 519, 323 S.E.2d 572 (1984). See Simms v. Commonwealth, 2 Va. App. 614,
346 S.E.2d 734 (1986) (defendant properly convicted of abduction with intent to defile
when he pulled a 16-year-old victim to the side of her house, told her to take her pants
off, and threatened to kill her if she was not quiet). But see Johnson v. Commonwealth,
221 Va. 872, 275 S.E.2d 592 (1981) (defendant who seized a woman, made sexual
advances and held her for 10 to 15 seconds did not abduct with intent to defile because
the evidence was consistent with his intent to persuade her to engage in consensual
intercourse). For other issues that have arisen in abduction with intent to defile cases, see
Fitzgerald v. Commonwealth, 223 Va. 615, 292 S.E.2d 798 (1982), cert. den., 459 U.S.
1228, reh&#8217;g den., 460 U.S. 1105 (1983) (upholding jury instruction that used the words
&#8220;sexually molest&#8221; rather than &#8220;defile&#8221; Hughes v. Commonwealth, 16 Va. App. 576, 431
S.E.2d 906 (1993) (evidence that defendant commented about &#8220;nice looking women&#8221; at
a party, that he talked to the victim and offered to take her and two small boys to the
bathroom, and scientific evidence that the child was not wearing her coat when in car
with defendant insufficient to prove intent to defile); Coram v. Commonwealth, 3 Va. App.
623, 352 S.E.2d 532 (1987) (holding that convictions for attempted rape and abduction
with intent to defile arising from one incident did not amount to double jeopardy).

Attempted rape is not a lesser included offense of abduction with intent to defile. Simms v.
Commonwealth, 2 Va. App. 614, 346 S.E.2d 734 (1986); Coram v. Commonwealth, 3 Va. App.
623, 352 S.E.2d 532 (1987)

http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/juvenile/resources/childabusestatutes/two.pdf

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