VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

[EGirl]

And those people are aholes.




Yes, women just love telling people they are raped for the fun of it.


If a woman can't consent to sex- DON'T TOUCH HER!!!!! How hard is that to understand??

jmo

I 100% agree with this.... but I do wonder what happens when both parties are drunk, unable to really consent... is that Date Rape?

 

[Perplexed 123]

What, if anything, do we know about JM's roommates? If the evidence reflects HG was taken to the apartment, do you think these people are also on the radar as potential suspects? And on that line of thinking, would a warrant for the apartment also apply to possessions of all of the residents?

HG 's address has been withheld. That struck me as a bit odd.

 

[savoiadilucania]

It is so strange living in these times and being able to get glimpses of people which previously only friends and family would have insight into. Reading her twitter feed makes me so sad for her and her family.

Try driving past her parents' house -- it's a really, really eerie feeling. Yellow ribbons on all the surrounding houses...nobody out and about when it's normally very busy/lively.

 

[human]

I don't see it this way. Why compound the tragedy by hurting even more people? I doubt HG would want that.

We really don't know what happened with the friends. I wandered off from parties against advise and against my own better judgement as an undergraduate. Should my friends be punished for letting me do that? The only real difference is that I didn't pay for that mistake with my life.

I live in a college town and the drinking, although not resulting in murder, has resulted in death and injury.

The city and the university are cracking down. This is a serious situation that results in death or permanent injury. The coddling of students must stop and those participating in illegal need to,pay the price.

This death and injury happens all over the US. Quit treating it like it is nothing, because it is serious!

 

[LLLindsayy]

Similar to others, I haven't time to keep up with this thread, so of course I haven't read every post. Please forgive me if I rehash what has already been discussed.

I saw someone mention that perhaps LE didn't "lose" JM that night after all (I mean, I've seen some pretty wild police chases that have lasted hours or more. Why stop this one?), but instead are trailing him more discreetly in hopes he will lead them to Hannah. What I didn't see though were peoples' responses. Where do you guys stand on that theory? Perhaps they know right where he is and that's why they haven't publicly stated, "There's a criminal on the loose, watch your backs."

I know it seems counter-productive on their part to not detain him if they know where he is, but I've heard time and time again that criminals will oftentimes revisit certain areas.

 

[lil212]

https://twitter.com/hegraham25

Look at her post from Aug 29. If only someone had been there for her in the same way. (Note - I think Hoos is a reference to UVA sports teams.)

 

[Hoosgirl]

I think it is great for the case to have that footage of JM at the football game. Nice shot of the arms, etc. to compare his appearance after Friday night in terms of any scratches or otherwise.

Also, I noticed his fb friends last night at 303 and this morning 306. His close family member did not appear on his list for a while, but is back on again.

 

[ninij9]

IF Hannah had stuck to the buddy system. IF WG had stuck around longer to insure her wellbeing. IF passerby's had intervened. IF her friends had departed party to find her when she was distress-texting. IF JM had known better than to consort with an intoxicated college student. IF management had carded Hannah at Tempo. Sigh. So many opportunities for this to have gone in another direction. All of the pieces snapped into place moment after moment for a narcissistic predator to see his chance to pounce.

 

[rob]

https://twitter.com/nbc29/status/514781189321027584


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

that's during day-light hours

 

[jamicat]

I think so. JM arrived at police station with a list of lawyers he wanted them to call. According to Longo, they called the first one and he came down, I'm presuming it was JM's first preference. This has not been clarified officially though

@Lovepink- he's still AWOL

We really don't know what went down here. It seems JM went to family sobbing about car and apt being searched and gave a part of what happened at the mall and his encounter with Hannah (appears he lied, certainly unlikely he told the whole truth). Family probably insisted that he go talk to the police but that he should have a lawyer present. I would say the same if he were a family member or friend or if someone asked me what to do. People the family knew probably gathered a list of Defense attorneys. There are always a bunch of them outside a court giving out cards, and anyone who has been to court or has anything to do with courts will know this. Someone the family knows, or a number of people probably gave out names.

So family members went with him to police; he wanted an attorney before talking to them, so they called the first one on the list who happened to be C. He talked to JM, told him he did not have to say squat and recommended he not say anything given whatever info JM told him. Likely told him to call if and when charges are filed, and not to say anything about the case to anyone, especially police and to lie low. (Should have told him to drive carefully too.) And so JM did except he drove recklessly to lose his tail and got a warrent on his head for that.

No doubt C has been watching this case very carefully and has his contacts on it waiting to get involved. Now it appears he is. Ideal case in that he has been on board early, client has said little to police. No body, so DA is going to have an uphill climb without very good forensic evidence that can't be explained away reasonably and unless something else comes up.

 

[JB225]

I don't work in criminal law or anywhere about it, but I work with a lot of large financial transactions and bought a house recently. Almost everything I do with attorneys (having my employment agreement reviewed, financial transactions, buying a house, etc.) has been electronic. I didn't even realize people required signatures on hard copies anymore.

Yep - a lot of it is electronic now. Email, etc. We do ask them to return certain original documents signed (or signed and notarized). I think some firms accept the signed retainer agreement scanned over email since it doesn't have to be notarized or filed with the court. The attorney then files an Entry of Appearance on their client's behalf if they are the Defendant. Anyway...

 

[Skigirl]

I live in a college town and the drinking, although not resulting in murder, has resulted in death and injury.

The city and the university are cracking down. This is a serious situation that results in death or permanent injury. The coddling of students must stop and those participating in illegal need to,pay the price.

This death and injury happens all over the US. Quit treating it like it is nothing, because it is serious!

College students are adults. Is attempting to protect them from themselves coddling them less? Or is it coddling them more? IMHO, extending adolescence farther and farther out really does no favors to those who should be learning to be adults. Again, JMO.

 

[RSC]

Bolded and snipped by me.

This may be nitpicking, but these two statements seem really contradictory to me. If you wish LE had bent over backwards at the expense of a conviction, then you do not seem to really be an advocate for the rights of the accused.

Just an observation. IMO, the reason LE is being very careful about this is because they are pretty sure it is him, and they do not want another victim. The chance of HG being "dropped off somewhere remote" are almost non existent (again, IMO)--why would a perp want her to be able to survive and subsequently incriminate him? I think the few times that victims in this case are found alive tend to be long term kidnappings (e.g. Amanda Berry et al), not remote drop-offs.

Not everyone here is out with pitchforks and torches to get JM. The charge does not come as a surprise, no, because unfortunately things work out a certain way, in certain scenarios, and this is unfolding pretty much as typical. The odds from the get go, when Hannah was considered missing, sadly, was that someone abuducted her, picked her up and did her harm. That she was disoriented, confused, lost, in a haze and did not show up where she was planning to go and was in contact with friends at that destination giving signs she was trying to get there is a factor. So, it was no surprsie she was picked up by someone who might have wanted to take advantage of her situation. That it's been over a week since she's shown up makes it statistically likely she is not alive. I wish LE had been able to question JM earlier, just in case, he did drop her off alive, somewhere remote, If she was alive and hurt at then, time was of the essence. LE should have bent over backwards even at the expense of getting a conviction later on to get info on her whereabouts as it should have been all about Hannah. Maybe they did. I made some critical remarks that it did not so appear, but we may never know that part. I'd really be upset with LE right now if I were Hannah's family, because I do suspect that not all that could have been done with JM to get info was done. If Hannah is found and was possilby alive this weekend or later....well, I'd be upset.

This forum is really more for the victims and their loved ones, as it overtly says. I have to refrain from some of my opinions because I frankly am more an advocate for the rights of those accused, and am becoming increasingly concerned with how MSM and people, due the internet, social media are being whipped into frenzies before the facts are all in and the case is not clear.

 

[kirafx]

HG 's address has been withheld. That struck me as a bit odd.

Some news reports claim HG's apartment was at the GrandMarc, but I don't know if LE ever stated that.

JM's landlord claimed his roommates moved out Monday (Sept. 15). I have an idea who they might be based on checking who lived at the same address, but don't want to cause any trouble for them (i.e., news crews) since I haven't seen their names mentioned elsewhere. http://www.nbc29.com/story/26593843/man-seen-with-missing-uva-student-hannah-graham-being-sought

 

[sarx]

Each morning I wake up and hope she has been found. Where are you Hannah?

 

[Landonsmom02]

I enlarged the photo on my computer and that does appear to be extremely similar. Both cars have rear spoilers and the tail lights are the same color. Hope LE is aware of this possibility.

IMO the pic of AM at the gas station showing the car and the pic of JM car look very simular. BUT, the other pic posted that shows the other car is not the same. That one looks like a toyota. Sorry if this has already been discussed but this thread is moving very fast!

 

[RSC]

I couldn't agree more. Don't even get me started on how ridiculous I find a 21 year old drinking age to be, when we are willing to send our 18 year olds in to battle and allow them to vote.

College students are adults. Is attempting to protect them from themselves coddling them less? Or is it coddling them more? IMHO, extending adolescence farther and farther out really does no favors to those who should be learning to be adults. Again, JMO.

 

[daily]

Similar to others, I haven't time to keep up with this thread, so of course I haven't read every post. Please forgive me if I rehash what has already been discussed.

I saw someone mention that perhaps LE didn't "lose" JM that night after all (I mean, I've seen some pretty wild police chases that have lasted hours or more. Why stop this one?), but instead are trailing him more discreetly in hopes he will lead them to Hannah. What I didn't see though were peoples' responses. Where do you guys stand on that theory? Perhaps they know right where he is and that's why they haven't publicly stated, "There's a criminal on the loose, watch your backs."

I know it seems counter-productive on their part to not detain him if they know where he is, but I've heard time and time again that criminals will oftentimes revisit certain areas.

I find it hard to believe they dont know where he is. That he could, in a known car, drive from the police station and lose the police AND the FBI. I think they are watching him and hoping he leads them to HG.

Otherwise you would have to believe he could have driven straight to her body from the police station and they would not have known (highly doubtful). This is applying pressure like the warrant with his ssn.

They are trying to see where he goes when he thinks hes not being watched.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Hmmm ... anyone know how to find out sexual assault reports for Liberty University? Perhaps in the years 2000-2003?

 

[ClueingForLooks]

People here and comments on other threads keep mentioning the fact that Hannah was offered to be escorted home by a male student. Well, maybe she didn't want to end up in her apartment alone with that boy. Maybe she didn't trust him 100%. IMO people shouldn't be questioning her decision. College girls who are assaulted are often assaulted by fellow students. As far as I'm concerned, her decision wasn't necessarily one that wasn't given consideration.

Sorry if this has been brought up already. I'm still in catch-up mode this morning.