VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

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They would have to arrest half the school. There are so many students over 21 who can obtain alcohol. If she refused to be walked home it is not something someone (who is probably enebriated also) can force on someone who doesn't want to be accompanied. My daughters friends have done that. Not only that, at this age they do not realize what could happen.

I am not suggesting anyone arrest any of the students. I've said that. I'm saying there should be some sanctions, and the students themselves should understand their part in this.

Any adult here, ask your attorney what your liability might be if you had an underage guest at your house, let them drink alcohol, served it personally, even, let the person out obiviously drunk, and that person disappeared or got hurt, or drove car. Yes, you might have a big problem. THose students are adults.

I doubt this wiill happen, but at the end of the day, the parents of Hannah Graham may well have grounds for civil suits against those hosts at that party and TEMPO. The Spierers are so doing to students who may have served alcohol to their daughter that night and let her go around disoreinted. Suit has been upheld and will go forward.

yes, this is a potentially serious thing. And no, one male should not have accompanied her He and a female probably should have just walked along and seen her home as she said she was going there.
 
yes to the cabbies! especially since his old boss at the cab co. said in an interview that he, as a result of driving a cab, could think of several places to hide a body.

do you have a link to that interview where the ex boss said that?
 
So, maybe this has already been covered, but first year students at UVA live in dorms on campus, and there is not too much reason to venture off campus. Housing is not guaranteed after first year, so many second years get off campus apartments. This does not mean they are automatically familiar with their new neighborhoods. When I was at UVA, I got turned around a lot during the first few weeks of second year, and I lived in an apartment near 14th and Grady. I do think HG was lost, or at least turned around, or disoriented given she was intoxicated. Same thing happened to me when I was there. I think she wanted to be heading back down 14th towards her apartment near the Corner, but somehow ended up heading downtown. Just my .02 IMO.

I did a lot of stupid stuff back in my underage drinking college days, and I would certainly not point the finger at anyone other than myself. There but for the grace of god go I...
 
I saw part of that interview last night but don't remember if it was fox or CNN. He did say plenty of places to hide a body....
 
Just saying for all the "newbie's" be prepared for some interesting theories and "what if's" on here, I remember reading them when I first started this board with the missing Heather Elvis earlier in the year. Some of the family/friends/hired reps of the accused started planting seeds of doubt and thoughts on the board, we were convinced it was them.
And sometimes posters just haven differing opinions based on the limited facts at hand. Be careful to label your fellow posters. We all have a right to post our theories and opinions within the guidelines of this board.

JMO
 
Gosh, since Charlottesville is surrounded by heavily wooded mountains, the search would be Herculean unless narrowed down. If LE knew when JM arrived back at his apartment (through roommate/neighbor interviews, security video) they could map a time/distance circle to give them a better idea. Rule out conspicuous/ridiculous areas and hone in on rural/wooded/discreet areas and that's still an enormous expanse of haystacks in which to search for a needle. I liked the previous suggestion of enlisting the aid of local cabbies who know the nooks and crannies of C'ville, people familiar with Lovers' Lanes, dark cul-de-sacs, etc. Right now, from the interstate, that whole area looks like one vast scenic expanse of green rolling hills. The leaves are just now starting to turn autmnal and will be at least ankle-deep a month from now. Finding Hannah is no easy task right now without some clues -- like the dirt up under his car. JM should just give it up (in MY emotional opinion) and lead authorities to where he last saw Hannah, if only for the sake of her distraught family.

bbm Patrol officers also would know all of the places too.
 
do you have a link to that interview where the ex boss said that?

It was in that fox interview that aired last night. Sorry I don't have a link, but it made an impression. Go to foxnews.com and look for the interview with Ted Williams.
 
Place to search Virginia Courts Case Status and Information
http://www.courts.state.va.us/caseinfo

Two types of courts: Circuit Court and General District Court. Requires searching done by county. Liberty University is in Lynchburg, which is in Amherst County.

Checking both courts in Amherst County and Lynchburg turned up no records for JM (not sure how long they maintain their records as his time there dates back 12-13 years).
Thanks! I am thinking of campus offences that may have only gone through the university .... trying to run down Clery Act disclosures, maybe?

Why did he leave Liberty and go to Christopher Newport?
 
His trespass arrest offense was in st. Patrick's day. My guess is he was drunk.
 
I'm aware that most ppl on this forum aren't members of the Law/Legal/LE community, but it's so often I see things posted as fact, without citation, that simply aren't correct. I think often times this is some long perpetuated assumption or merely one posting "what somebody once told them." I'll preface this by stating that I've investigated 100s of "sex crimes" in my 17 year career. I've observed ppl stating "drunk sex = rape", or something to that effect multiple times. I just want to clarify a few things on that topic. I'm not posting this nor any of my opinion on the topic, because after my affidavit & criminal complaint are submitted, it's up to the magistrate/judge, following the definitions of the State's penal code to determine whether a "victim" was able to form "consent". Attached is each States' definition of "Rape", as well as their definition of "Consent." There is no Universal Law. As you can see, each state has their own definitions. Va, however leaves a lot of room for interpretation, where as several other states are much more specific when it comes to intoxication & consent.


http://relieffundforsexualassaultvictims.org/resources/sexualassaultchart_NCVLI-D.doc

Let's find Hannah.


Sorry for quoting my own post.

I also wanted touch on the topic of "Date-Rape drug." I constantly see over, and over again allegations, suspicion, etc. of the use of a date-rape drug. Quite often during an investigation, I've had a victim state the think they were "roofied" (which specifically refers to Rohypnol; a chemical I've never come across in my 17 years). Rohypnol is a benzodiazepine, so I personally think "roofie" is a coverall term for this classification of benzodiazepines. From the use of lab results, as well as through interviews and other forms of investigation, I've yet to see a case in my office, where the use of a date-rape drug has been confirmed. Yes, lab work has shown traces of different benzos in some victims. However, benzos are prescribed to a fair amount of individuals, and through my investigations (as well as the years working in Narcotics), they are a commonly abused substance. GHB was commonly used in the mid 80s to early 90s in the bodybuilding scene. It had a resurgence in the late 90s to early 2000s in the Rave culture. GHB is a substance ppl commonly refer to as a date rape drug. Personally, I've never encountered it in a sexual assault/rape investigation.

Keep in mind, the city I work in, is one of the 5th most populous cities in the US. Many ppl are on medication (of various types) or consume other chemicals that greatly exacerbate the effects of alcohol whether they're aware or not. Ppl also sometimes are not aware of the amount of alcohol they have consumed, nor exactly how it'll effect them specifically on a particular occasion. Factors including, but not limited to; hydration, nutrition, medication, climate, disease, etc. all play a significant role in the effects of intoxicants.

The following is strictly MO. I think the claims of being drugged often stem from the above mention factors as well as other personality factors. Ppl sometimes refuse to take responsibility for the fact the simply drank too much. Ppl think they are able to "hold their alcohol". Whether ppl want to believe it or not, there're individuals who simply seek a reason/excuse for their actions. One quick example (and I've had multiple instances like this). After taking a sexual assault complaint at Noon on Saturday, I transported an individual to the hospital for a kit & blood work. Said individual claimed they thought the were "drugged", and stated they had 3 drinks. The last drink at approx. 0100hrs (11 hours earlier). At noon there BAC was .09. If somebody is familiar in calculating the metabolism of alcohol in reference to BAC, you can do the math. Were they sexually assaulted? Yes. Did I believe them? Yes. Were they highly intoxicated? I believe so. Were there signs of a date-rape drug? None that medical experts could determine.

None of the above is in reference to this case, nor any other on the forum. It's simply my thoughts/experiences on date-rape drugs, and the my thoughts/experiences regarding the over excessive speculation of their use in crimes.
 
Here's a new video. Includes grandma.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/index.html

This is the video where the former boss says it, grandma yells and Ted says people think JM is weird. I posted it last p.m. - it's hard to keep up around here.
 
Yeah, so this could be a really "innocent" charge. He coulda snuck into a club after being told it was at capacity. Or went into a park after sunset to make out with a girlfriend.
Or been told not to leave/not come back to someone's home.
 
I have to believe that they have much more than an arm around her and unused condoms to support the kidnapping with intent to defile. I think an unmarried 32 year old is, more likely than not to be in possession of prophylactic birth control. Certainly not indicative of intent to commit a crime.

I just used the condoms as an example since "intent to defile" is very ambiguous. I also want to believe that LE has more evidence to actually prove that at least Hannah was in his car and/or his apartment but of course we won't know what evidence they have until they tell us.

I just think LE needed a new felony charge because they don't have any idea where he is and if he has in fact left the state, then they can legally extradite him back to Cville. I just believe that LE is desperate to find him so he will talk to them and hopefully provide information that only he and Hannah know about their interaction and then they can go from there.

I honestly don't know whether I think JM is completely guilty or completely innocent or anywhere in between. And I also don't think LE is just trying to pin everything on this guy regardless of how solid the evidence is just so they can "solve" the case. But until there is actual credible evidence that is released to the public, all we can do is speculate.
 
I keep seeing people mention the Rte 29 Stalker so I looked it up. Timeline of this crime is March 1996. Composite sketch is a white man in his 30s or 40s. I think we an definitely rule JM out as the Rte 29 Stalker!!
 
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