VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

[Lava]

Just because the police have not released all the evidence does not mean they have no evidence beyond Hannah leaving Tempo with JM. LE never releases all they have until trial. So just because you are in the dark it does not mean they are.

Believe it or not, LE does not want to waste resources chasing the wrong perp. That would lead to the real perp getting away and being able to commit more crimes.

A lot of us are very aware they don't have to release evidence to the public. That doesn't mean we haven't seen it before however. We do know that they don't have video or eyewitness evidence of JM and HG in the car together. And without knowing what kind of forensics led to the recent charges, we are still waiting to jump off the fence. LE does not want to chase the wrong perp...but LE has done that in the past, so you can't rule anything out.

 

[ninij9]

Ref: Hannah's pants, I asked cville_bob to come and clarify. He was a searcher.

Maybe they had them...but doesn't mean they had them from JM apartment or car? JMO. Guessing here.

 

[Just K]

I'm not David, but I think he misread the tweet regarding JM not being tied to Alexis Murphy case as meaning he wasn't tied to Hannah's case.

JMO

We can not assume that RAT did not deliberately ID an innocent man and did so to protect himself and someone similar... Just in case someone saw a dreads or corn row dude at his home. RAT is a calculaTing liar. He was there but he very possibly had help or helped someone else. I will wait for the forensics before I rule out RAT having a criminal accomplice.

 

[jamicat]

Exactly, They have nothing. They have him and her together and not, at the mall area and they have her missing. Not one piece of evidence that he is responsible for her demise or disappearance. I am waiting for evidence, until then he is innocent minus the alleged traffic violations. jmo idk

LE and the DA have been proceeding very carefully in this case. They had JM within arms reach and in the station and did not charge him. Longo made it clear that they did not have the evidence to charge JM with anything and they could not hold him. When he raced away from LE who were shadowing/following him, he gave them traffic reasons, reckless driving, to go after him. So at that point in time, yes, they did not have anything on JM except for that.

However, they were able to get a search warrent for his car and his apartment and took his cell phone. All legal. They got the warrents to do so. Something came up yesterday so that LE was able to issue a warrent out for JM's arrest regarding Hannah Graham. They don't know where he is; they've been looking for him to book on that reckless driving warrent. But now they have Hannah related charges out on him. What they have, how they got it, LE is not divulging.

So I doubt that "they have nothing". They have something between the time of the reckless driving charge which he foolishly accrued right in front of them, knowingly and now. But LE is not sharing with the public what it is that came up so that they feel they can go after JM successfully on that charge. And it's more than just being the last person LE can track to Hannah before she vanished. As much as LE wanted to do so, they refrained from arresting JM when he was right in their faces, so I believe then have come up with something new to release this warrent. Until then, I was on the fence, as I agree LE did not have much of anything since they out and out said they did not have enought to book him. Now they do.

 

[mcdeanie]

I agree with jamicat that Hannah's friends had a responsibility to help her. Maybe there is no legality involved, but there are ethics and morality involved. It reminds me of school officials in the "zero tolerance" instances where a young student is suspended for ten days because her mother had placed a small knife in her lunchbox to spread the peanut butter on the bread! We are capable of THINKING and making judgments. I am not responsible in any written document for the school children who walk by my home each day, but when there was a looming storm and lightning crackling alarmingly close, I went out and asked them to come under the shelter of my large front porch. I think jamicat's comments are very important to this thread. Something good can and, in this case should, come out of horrible tragedies. There are natural consequences that arise from not getting involved in OBVIOUSLY dangerous situations of others. (There is zero tolerance. Lots of people do it all the time. It's not my problem. It's the perp's fault. It's Hannah's fault.) These are all statements that slam the door on human empathy and the impetus to help. I'm hoping, by pointing it out as jamicat has, that this will affect young people in this case...as well as young (and old) people everywhere reading about it, to THINK and react with care whether it's a law written in books or one written on your heart!

 

[bakerlady]

BBM. This is the first I've read this. If in fact this was a deliberate move by the leaders of the search to not mention anything about looking for her pants and/or underwear, then this is a huge development!

If they had pants and didn't arrest him on the spot I will blow a gasket.

 

[finine]

Whatever happened to the eye witness interviews Coy Barefoot promised to release, from the night she went missing? Either he was silenced by LE or they never did exist. Or, I'm being cynical and he just hasn't posted them yet. I think it will be interesting to hear about the roughhousing in the bar that led to him accidentally hurting someone, just before he was with Hannah.

I've been wondering about that all morning. My guess is he was silenced by LE based on their press conference yesterday and the fact that they don't want too much info to get leaked out just yet ...

 

[Lava]

Whatever happened to the eye witness interviews Coy Barefoot promised to release, from the night she went missing? Either he was silenced by LE or they never did exist. Or, I'm being cynical and he just hasn't posted them yet. I think it will be interesting to hear about the roughhousing in the bar that led to him accidentally hurting someone, just before he was with Hannah.

BBM - Can I get a link for that??

 

[aHoo]

knowing how much rumor is on FB, someone on the Help find Hannah FB said something to the tune of he news reported that LE has video of HG and JM leaving in his car. Did anyone hear this on the news, is this accurate? Thank you

Longo has specifically said in PC that they do not know whether HG got into his car with JM.

 

[mirv22]

I find it odd that no eyewitnesses--either on or off the record--have come forward claiming they saw Jesse and Hannah at the Tempo bar/restaurant that night.

Whatever happened to the eye witness interviews Coy Barefoot promised to release, from the night she went missing? Either he was silenced by LE or they never did exist. Or, I'm being cynical and he just hasn't posted them yet. I think it will be interesting to hear about the roughhousing in the bar that led to him accidentally hurting someone, just before he was with Hannah.

Coy was supposed to release that story today. I'm very curious about it. I'm sure he didn't lie about it, but perhaps it has been squashed by LE?

 

[savoiadilucania]

Everything he is doing makes HIMSELF appear guilty.
heck his Lawyer cant even step up and say something.
I thought most here wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt but he sure ruined that. for me anyway
All JMO

What should his lawyer say?

 

[BloodshotEye]

Does anyone know exactly how many different agencies are looking for JM? I just find it hard to believe that he has not been spotted or located. That car of his sister's is fairly old, so probably not a lot of them on the road. And the plate VAC...... would be very obvious, out of state. I hope that they aren't just watching him. If they have him, arrest him, already!!!! JMO

I know what you mean.
Perhaps LE and the various supporting agencies, are simply giving JM a 'long leash'. At this point, I am going to speculate, that LE knows where JM is, but keeping a distance. LE can use the time for the forensics lab to process clothing, etc., as well as the known samples that will be used for comparison/confirmation. At this point, it may be a strategic play for 'time', knowing that JW must be charged within 72 hours (can't recall if it is 72 or 48hours), after his arrest. Although the DA can certainly amend or change the initial charges, at a later date (when more information/evidence is obtained), perhaps they are wanting to have the forensic analytical data, before JW is formally arrested and charged. One and done, if you get my drift. Purely speculation on my part.

 

[Lava]

Maybe they had them...but doesn't mean they had them from JM apartment or car? JMO. Guessing here.

Also, they may not be able to link pants to Hannah. They may not know the brand, and they may not be able to find DNA on pants. Black pants can be very generic.

 

[netsleuth]

First of all I am not raging. Not at all. In fact, I 've stated a number of time, that the focus right now should be on finding Hannah and finding out what happened to her, and I do not expect LE to go chasing after those who had the party. Absolutely not.

But this is a HUGE problem, not just in this case, but in many others, at college. Up until about 20 years ago, I did not of one single death (some foolishness, some damages but zero deaths) going on at colleges from this sort of thing. and I am well involved with colleges. Not much with LE but with colleges, yes. Now I am seeing this a lot and personally know 4 who DIED this way, and am about one or two degree of separation from some others, including the Lauren Spierer case.

So do I think Hannah's "freinds' who have out and out said to LE that she was "extremely intoxicated" (LE's quotes from info from them) when she left them, and they didn't accompany a young woman, drunk, at night , that they provided drinks and they knew she was underage, out there, should have some culpability? Yes, I do. And they should feel culpable too. If it were myself,or my kid who provided her with those drinks, knowingly let her leave my place drunk at night, yes, there would be culpability, i'm pretty sure. You think that has put much of a dent in the UVA party scene? Guess again. I'll be there in a few weeks, and I'll let you know. UVA should have some sanction for them and they should be doing some mea culpas themselves. No, I don't think they should be charged by LE, but the university has rules about this and they could enforce some of them, or these students should be doing something to reduce the incidences of such thing and letting people know. Just the simple act of accompanying someone "out of it' instead of just offering could make a difference. That's just decency. No, I would not allow someone drunk to leave my house that way or anyone I know to leave a private party that way. I'd go with the person, with accompaniment to make sure they got where ever safely and did not try to drive. Absoluteley. If one more person gets escorted, accompanied when not in right mind, leaving a place, it's worth it.

The party was off-campus, outside the University's jurisdiction and the students have not been charged with any crimes. Therefore, the University will take no action against the students. Further, it's naïve to think this incident will have any long-term impact on the party scene at UVa. In recent years, the Harrington and Huguely matters have hit close to home, but the weekend parties continue. It’s part of the school’s culture (work hard, play hard) and that culture attracts like-minded students to UVa. I realize that you have an agenda; however, I can assure you, you will not change the party culture at UVa .

 

[Tracey4AU]

Isn't it funny (and by funny I mean frustrating as &*$$) how we can all read/hear/see the same thing, and interpret it a thousand different ways? :tantrum:

 

[pittie_mcclure]

Thank you so much for posting! A lot of us are not totally convinced and are waiting for more evidence to be released.

I worked in a PACU (Recovery Room) and relied heavily on the OR techs/patient transport people. I personalized JM through them. I just can't imagine any one of them being anyone other than who they seemed to be: great, nice people.

I also have two college aged daughters who I worry about. My one daughter has already made poor choices while intoxicated at 17, resulting in personal harm. This case is tough. Please don't hesitate to post your opinions. You will find support for your views, even if they are not popular, simply because you are doing so in a polite, respectable, thoughtful way.

Thanks I am empathetic to a fault (plus,
I'm from Chicago where our - civilians - relationship with LE is extremely tense and there isn't much trust on both sides so of course I come in bias. As we all do.)

I am so sorry to hear about your daughter. This case has made me especially frustrated with the world we live in. Hannah should have made it home safe that night. I was once Hannah - 18 and full of life. I wandered drunk a lot and am only lucky (not better than) that something did not happen to me. I probably don't drink any less, but I'm almost 30 now and it's amazing how those years in between then and now have changed my trust of my environment.

Thanks for your kind words. I'm pretty loud and outspoken in "real" life so i definitely think I'll keep posting

 

[savoiadilucania]

LE and the DA have been proceeding very carefully in this case. They had JM within arms reach and in the station and did not charge him. Longo made it clear that they did not have the evidence to charge JM with anything and they could not hold him. When he raced away from LE who were shadowing/following him, he gave them traffic reasons, reckless driving, to go after him. So at that point in time, yes, they did not have anything on JM except for that.

However, they were able to get a search warrent for his car and his apartment and took his cell phone. All legal. They got the warrents to do so. Something came up yesterday so that LE was able to issue a warrent out for JM's arrest regarding Hannah Graham. They don't know where he is; they've been looking for him to book on that reckless driving warrent. But now they have Hannah related charges out on him. What they have, how they got it, LE is not divulging.

So I doubt that "they have nothing". They have something between the time of the reckless driving charge which he foolishly accrued right in front of them, knowingly and now. But LE is not sharing with the public what it is that came up so that they feel they can go after JM successfully on that charge. And it's more than just being the last person LE can track to Hannah before she vanished. As much as LE wanted to do so, they refrained from arresting JM when he was right in their faces, so I believe then have come up with something new to release this warrent. Until then, I was on the fence, as I agree LE did not have much of anything since they out and out said they did not have enought to book him. Now they do.

This.

 

[whiskers]

I'm new and wanted to respond to this thread last night, but I couldn't because it seems to take a while to register here. So not to flog an already dead horse, but I wanted to comment on the sex trafficking idea. I live in VA. not far from where all of this is happening. About 45 minutes away. Our local news a few months back had a 2-3 night segment on sex trafficking and how they use interstate 81 to bring them through this area.

I don't think this involves HG at all, but maybe others who keep bringing up the topic also live in this part of VA. and you heard about it on the news. Granted most of them are not white women, but it is an industry that is growing.

I've also read many of her tweets. In the UK and Europe the legal drinking age is 18. From what I've read, she seemed to have cocktails, etc. when in Europe, which is completely legal. Just my opinion, but I think she probably has a better tolerance than an 18 year old who had never had wine or beer before. And Cville is and can be very confusing at night. Even for someone who has been there many times.

My heart breaks for her family. And all of the families around here with a missing family member. Sometimes I feel like our local news sort of glosses over the fact when someone goes missing. And then you find a forum like this and realize there are a higher percentage of missing women in my area compared to where someone else may live.

 

[klily444]

On the topic of dreads: Posters have asked why his hair color is different at the root then at the ends. JM has very tight dreads. The tighter the dreads, the longer the hair needs to be. So if we see his hair past his shoulders in dreads, it has actually grown at least down his back without dreads. Hair only grows a half inch per month. This tells me he likely has dreads weaved in, which is not uncommon. Anyway, when weaving synthetic hair, the color doesn't always match exactly to the natural hair color. This would explain why it looks unnatural. He would need to shave his head to get rid of them though, because they are completely knotted up with his natural hair.

 

[MrPalomar]

I've seen this mistake made repeatedly now, so thought it would be helpful to explain:

Section § 18.2-48 refers to 5 DIFFERENT types of Class 2 abduction/kidnapping felonies:

Abduction (i) of any person with the intent to extort money or pecuniary benefit

Abduction (ii) of any person with intent to defile such person

Abduction (iii) of any child under sixteen years of age for the purpose of concubinage or prostitution

Abduction (iv) of any person for the purpose of prostitution

Abduction(v) of any minor for the purpose of manufacturing child *advertiser censored*

There is no money, prostitution, or pecuniary benefit requirement for abduction with intent to defile (sexually molest).

Thank you for clarifying this. The way it was discussed earlier made it sound like any of the above qualified as "...with intent to defile." Which was confusing to me because I didn't get how extortion fit under the heading of "intent to defile." All the others could be construed as defilement to a layperson though.

It's helpful to know that the charge against JM is specifically limited to the 2nd one.

2nd post