VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #5

[cluciano63]

I had to jump ahead to catch up, so I'm sure I missed valuable information and thoughts, but this is the bottom line as I see it... Dreads tell the police that that he picked her up in the mall, took her to the bar, purchased alcohol, took her back to his place... whatever ... she left or he took her somewhere ... doesn't mean he is responsible for disappearance. innocent until proven guilty ... sucks, right? Makes my stomach hurt.

Pretty much. And unless someone saw him elsewhere or they can track his movements, it will probably come down to luck whether or not she is found. If she is not found, IMO, no way is he confessing, unless maybe there is her blood in his apartment. Otherwise I jut don't see it happening, no matter how much the chief wants it. He needs luck and forensics, like anyone else, Imo.

 

[cluciano63]

I can't imagine that a local who was a regular in the downtown area would use the same location to find victim. How dumb would that be??! Everyone would know who he was and pinpoint him immediately.

I think he was unknown. To everybody except his accomplices. You'd have to be REALLY stupid to make yourself known to the point of being a regular and THEN abduct and (most likely) murder a young girl and not expect people to point you out.

I agree. Or else maybe he really did just pick her up and later dropped her off somewhere. Or maybe there was no plan to harm her, just trying for sex, and something went wrong. It would be pretty stupid to snag a girl on camera from a place where he hangs out. Jmo

 

[Lava]

I'm just catching back up, but yesterday I felt pretty suspicious that WG and dreads were a team. I also think the high 5s were odd. He stopped and waited for those women to high 5.

And...WG started following hannah before she had even passed him fully.

I don't think this is necessarily a one man operation, particularly given all the abductions of young women in the area.

This is near the top of my list as well. Team, possibly including WG although unless LE says anything I wont go further than that.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

Could be, but then again, maybe he's not the abductor/killer. Maybe he dropped her off somewhere and then something happened to her.

My problem with this is if I was innocent of any wrongdoing and the girl I spent a lot of the night with ends up missing the first damn thing I'm gonna do is go to the police to say "hey we were together I dropped her off and I don't know what happened after that" I would only not go to police if I knew I was with her was if I was guilty which is how it's gone down in this case..

 

[Clover1099]

I agree. He may be a predator who intended only to sexually assault HG. That happened in a case in Philly in 1997, where just one of a serial rapists many victims died. He was finally caught a few years later when his dna matched up in a subsequent rape. If he intended to both assault and kill, it was an off place for the abduction to occur.

 

[Claudia]

I can't imagine that a local who was a regular in the downtown area would use the same location to find victim. How dumb would that be??! Everyone would know who he was and pinpoint him immediately.

I think he was unknown. To everybody except his accomplices. You'd have to be REALLY stupid to make yourself known to the point of being a regular and THEN abduct and (most likely) murder a young girl and not expect people to point you out.

Wasn't it said that he was a regular at the mall?
I agree, it's really not smart, but as someone else said earlier, criminals are stupid, and this was really, really stupid.

 

[Jmm124567]

In this surveillance video from McGrady's go to :50. It looks like she may be looking for someone on the patio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbceiUIHkbQ#t=56

She also looks tired. She has her hands on her lower back because it is probably sore form all the walking. When I have been walking for a while my lower back starts to hurt.

 

[Skigirl]

Well, Longo's interview on Anderson Cooper cleared up one thing I wondered. The other two people with Dreads when police executed the search warrant were "in the home," which sounds to me like they were in the same apartment, not just the same building/different apartments.

 

[Clover1099]

I meant to say it was an odd place for an abduction to occur with so many witnesses around.

 

[missgulfsouth]

I think she was at least a little familiar with him. Maybe a friend of a friend? I could be completely wrong, but that's just the feeling I have.

But does anyone think she went there to meet him, specifically? If not, why did she go there at all, what were her intentions? I guess only she knows, I'm just rambling out loud.

 

[momrids6]

Is the map correct and consistent with the video in that link?
Let me know if there should be an update to the map.
Any idea where her apartment was?

I based the timeline on this map, but I forgot to copy the url. It's from one of the local news stations. This is my source (will look for the link):

Look where the 1:20 text is "from". Looks like it may be on her orginal route from the frat party to McGrady's... Where was she and what happened during that 55 minutes between the Camden Plaza Apts and McGradys?

 

[jef3r]

Wasn't it said that he was a regular at the mall?
I agree, it's really not smart, but as someone else said earlier, criminals are stupid, and this was really, really stupid.

I think that there was one facebook user quoted as saying he knows the guy from the downtown mall but that's it. I don't know that I've heard anything from an official source saying he was a regular.

 

[Lovepink]

I think that there was one facebook user quoted as saying he knows the guy from the downtown mall but that's it. I don't know that I've heard anything from an official source saying he was a regular.

Yes, it's just rumor.

 

[Lava]

I meant to say it was an odd place for an abduction to occur with so many witnesses around.

Its an odd place for a typical abduction. But not so much for a lure/trick/kidnap type abduction. I try and teach my sister that lol.

 

[razzledazzle]

Pretty much. And unless someone saw him elsewhere or they can track his movements, it will probably come down to luck whether or not she is found. If she is not found, IMO, no way is he confessing, unless maybe there is her blood in his apartment. Otherwise I jut don't see it happening, no matter how much the chief wants it. He needs luck and forensics, like anyone else, Imo.

I do think we should nominate Chief for a Daytime Emmy though... best pressor I've ever seen.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Has anyone Googled "downtown mall Charlottesville" there is a much bigger crime problem than everyone claims.

Definitely agree. Someone way back in one of the threads, indicated that students are carrying guns. Another person seemed to scoff at this suggestion. With a little nosing around, it would appear to be true. There are numerous posts on various different forums and news reports. Here is an example:

"The areas around UVA have been bad for a very long time. My husband & I are both alumni and daughter entered UVA in 2002. She could not find an area to live that did not have rapes and murders and did not feel safe anywhere including her apt/houses. We finally bought her a gun and concealed carry permit. There is no excuse in a college student feeling that unsafe. I am surprised it has not affected applications to UVA. Very sad. "

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I'm just catching back up, but yesterday I felt pretty suspicious that WG and dreads were a team. I also think the high 5s were odd. He stopped and waited for those women to high 5.

And...WG started following hannah before she had even passed him fully.

I don't think this is necessarily a one man operation, particularly given all the abductions of young women in the area.

I'm late to this case, would someone kindly post a link to the high five video to help me get up to speed? Thanks.

 

[Clover1099]

This is near the top of my list as well. Team, possibly including WG although unless LE says anything I wont go further than that.

An earlier poster said that WG's behavior was typical of someone in LE or security. Also, eyewitness accounts are unreliable - cornrows could look like a closely shaved head and white pants could be remembered as black on a black guy.

 

[FlamingoLady]

I can't imagine that a local who was a regular in the downtown area would use the same location to find victim. How dumb would that be??! Everyone would know who he was and pinpoint him immediately.

I think he was unknown. To everybody except his accomplices. You'd have to be REALLY stupid to make yourself known to the point of being a regular and THEN abduct and (most likely) murder a young girl and not expect people to point you out.

You have a really good point. I haven't looked at it that way.
Humor me on this thought......He's so comfortable there that he gets complacent. Maybe it's not even the first time he's done this (whatever "this" may be), but this time it went bad. She didn't go along with his plan. Maybe he misjudged her/she misjudged him. It didn't necessarily have to start out as a premeditated murder.
Just a thought...I totally see where you're coming from though. It just does not make sense to me that the women are in on it, the white guy following her is in on it too (I think that was in your theory).
I just don't know...

 

[RSC]

If that were the case, why did he saunter slowly after her in front of sals? I think he was marking her. I also think others there may have helped...

But does anyone think she went there to meet him, specifically? If not, why did she go there at all, what were her intentions? I guess only she knows, I'm just rambling out loud.