VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

[momrids6]

If friends would send off a lone girl to buy weed, that is a pretty loose description of friendship...jmo

so is letting a drunk 18 yr old walk home or anywhere by herself- no matter what she says...imo

 

[Lovepink]

TrueCrimeSleuth - any updates?

 

[possumheart]

First I have heard of a $50,000 reward for information:

Anyone with information regarding Graham is asked to contact the Charlottesville Police Department at 434-295-3851. Police are seeking a person of interest and offering a $50,000 reward for information leading to the cause of Graham's disappearance.

https://news.virginia.edu/content/updates-regarding-missing-university-student

 

[snarkymalarkey]

cell tower pings?

It makes me think they know much more than anything being disclosed.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I think LE did not want to be first to release his name...and that makes me wonder why.

Truly over the top & totally whacked theory: to buy time to get him to out safely/or to set up a major sting operation.

Yes, I'm vacillating wildly on this fence of mine!

Goodnight, I hope we'll hear more in the morning.

 

[RSC]

Yes, this really bothers me. People seem to be overlooking the fact that either WG or LE gave misinformation regarding a black man with no hair and a goatee. Why?


And I still can't get WG out of my head, the way he turned to follow her before she had even passed him.

I was a huge fan on Longo also until I realized I knew the POI and recalled Longo saying "police are familiar with the POI" . . . . but if you look at the POI's record, the worst thing he has ever done is not paid a ticket on time and let his car registration expire. When I first heard Longo say there is familiarity between the POI and police, I expected him to have some huge criminal record and he does not. . . . . now I am wondering what else Longo said with the intention of leading people to conclusions that may be inaccurate. I'm sure he wants to solve this case, and he is clearly passionate about resolution and sympathetic to her parents, but I am fearful that he has lost some of his objectivity.

. . . . also . . . remember when he said that the person they were looking for was a black male, with a goat-tee, and short hair. Now come to find out there was never anyone matching that description involved with the case.

. . . . . also . . . remember when he said that no one was walking with Hannah with their arm around her; that it was just her reflection (eventhough the video appeared otherwise)? . . . . well, now Longo is saying, yes, it was the POI.

As much as I respected Longo a few days ago, he has lost credibility with me. You cant plea to the public for assistance and pretend you are giving them information to go on and then we find out a lot of the information was lies . . . . possibly with the intent of leading to conclusions you had already made.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Or some friends who were drunk and some maybe even passed out around the time HG was supposedly saying she was headed to the party (we don't know the exact wording of her texts). They're college kids who were partying. Maybe HG was going to show up; maybe she wasn't. Unless the friends at the party lived with her, it's frighteningly possible that nobody would notice anything amiss for a day or two after her disappearance. My colleagues and I had this discussion at work the other day, recalling how careless we were at that age, not even considering our own vulnerability or mortality. Roommate not around? They'd be more likely to think she'd hooked up with somebody than to wonder if maybe she'd been kidnapped and murdered.

Good points! Perhaps her roommates were out of town and didn't return until Sunday??? They could have gone home, visited friends on another campus, athletes that travel to compete...

Roommates aren't necessarily the same people you party or hang out with either.

 

[sarx]

Anyone else notice how quiet Parker has been?

 

[msteach]

A sad, sad irony on HG's twitter from a few weeks before her disappearance.

Said that she helped an "alone drunk girl" find her way to the bus that night.

As a mother, it makes me want to cry. If only someone had been as kind and caring to her.

 

[Macpad]

You guys are insane to think that LE would essentially identify the POI in the media -- going so far as to give the media all of the information they needed to identify him and daring the public to do so -- without having significant probable case to back up their suspicions. If they are for some reason using the POI as a ruse to make another suspect (WG, for instance) comfortable in hopes that that person would slip up, they are opening themselves up to massive civil liability (defamation!) and malpractice charges.

Not saying that WG or any other person is innocent, or that POI is guilty, but that LE certainly has consulted their legal counsel to determine that they are not opening themselves up to liability in this way.

As far as they know he's the last person to see her because of Tempo CCTV video that they haven't released yet and eye witnesses. But this is a city with 50K population and some seriously big problems. They could have easily pulled other incriminating evidence from JM's apartment that has nothing to do with this investigation but could send him up the river none the less.

 

[Lovepink]

Anyone else notice how quiet Parker has been?

Yeah I think everything has been suspiciously quiet. Either they just don't have anything new, or they're moving on something soon? JMO

 

[azure]

I'm not terribly far removed from college and I NEVER would have gone to the trouble of walking miles to try to find someone, anyone, to buy me alcohol for a party. It's college, parties are filled with tons of alcohol, and there's always someone to give you a drink, ESP if you are an attractive girl.

If my friends were all texting me that there's no alcohol at the party, I'd probably duck into the nearest bar and grab a shot or two, not walk miles! If the party were that important, I'd of course want to get there ASAP. I think the same applies for weed. Those ideas are far fetched.

Cocaine of something, maybe, in my wilder days I went on some adventures to score stuff, but never alone or that haphazardly. She'd have to be desperate, and if that were the case, I think we would have heard.

 

[lateott]

Yes, buying alcohol to take home with you is impossible after midnight in Virginia.

Thank you for clarifying Claudia (and "I Must Break You" and Concerned Mama above.)

So I guess this is me speculating that as a regular to the mall, LJ could work around that by knowing a bartender, and perhaps they chose the restaurant on the end of the mall for that reason. He is either lying to his granny about buying her drinks, or about her riding in his car, or he is truthful about both.

I am sure we will know soon whether there is evidence of her in his car (in which case he lied to his granny and is going to hell for that and worse things.)

The other key fact that is has been reported inconsistently was whether she went into the bar with him or he went in alone. I don't think he/they were inside long enough to have "drinks," only for him to "get drinks." Since there is no video we need a witness saying she was in there drinking (in which case they served her under age...)

 

[Mountain Misst]

IMO, JLM is just not cutting the mustard as a perp on this occasion. Perhaps all was not smooth in the romantic stakes at home (reported that he did not live alone) perhaps he was out looking for a bit of attention; flirting with the young kittens.

With the dreadlocks and an orange car, this symbolically reads like a lion out on the range checking out the lionesses, to me. But that's just MOO, as I theorise under my tin hat.

 

[Concerned Mama]

I still keep going back to Longo's press conference Friday evening, when he states they have "every reason to believe" that Hannah was in the car with JLM after they were spotted at Tempo. I'm guessing surveillance video or a traffic camera shows the burnt orange coupe leaving the area, but not at the angle to see the people inside the vehicle. So why do they have "every reason to believe"?

The second bloodhound search on Tuesday confirmed that Hannah had been on the Downtown Mall, before LE released the info about the videotapes from Sal's and Tuel's. I can't find any media stating exactly where that bloodhound lost the scent of Hannah. Was it near Water Street? Was it perhaps where they know the burnt orange coupe was parked?

If anybody has links or info to confirm, that'd be great. Also, as has previously been stated in this thread, the "probable cause" that LE found in the car was enough for two more warrants, but not an arrest. If JLM was not at the condo when they returned to search, have they been able to execute the warrant for his phone?

And one last question. Was it ever confirmed that JLM once lived in the area near Anchorage Farm, where Morgan Harrington's remains were found?

This case has me worried to the point of obsession, probably because I lived on 14th Street when I was a student at UVa, and now I have an 18-year-old daughter away at college. The agony Hannah's family must be going through! I really do hope she is found soon so the family can have some peace of mind.

 

[Emaa]

Has anyone considered the possibility that JM noticed the WG watching Hannah, and he hurried to catch up with her to warn her? They even could have gone into Tempo to see if he would follow or just move on?

Interesting thought. Perhaps JLM saw the WG duck into the doorway and then step out to follow Hannah; wasn't it after that point that JLM crossed over? Something that has bugged me is that WG told police once he saw Hannah with who we now know to be JLM, he quit following her. But you can see him continuing to do so in the jewelry store video.

 

[birdbox]

Wonder if they will ever find out if WG or LM ever attended the Metallica concert in 2009 where Morgan went missing. Maybe they attended or worked as bouncer or selling t-shirts or concession. Just want to know if there is a link.

 

[gitana1]

But he was already targetted. They already had a warrant for his car. That would be enough for me to ask for a lawyer.

That makles sense. However, that was not what I was responding to. I was responding to the thought that "normal" people lawyer up the minute they think they may be connected in any way or have any information regaridng a possible crime. They just don't.

I watch too much real crime TV and my best friend is a defense attorney, so although I never have any intention of committing a crime, I wouldn't talk to LE about anything beyond a speeding ticket without at least consulting an attorney first. Maybe I'm just weird.

Not weird at all. But you have a very unique experience that is not the norm for 99.9% of people in the U.S.

Here is a link to timeline and videos.

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/18/all-surveillance-videos-of-missing-uva-student-hannah-elizabeth-graham/

also this link has video of the pub: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one knows if he is talking or not. He may have given LE all he can. LE is not going to disclose anything that may endanger its case. I'm sure LE is all over this, but I'm also sure they are not giving the public all they have for obvious reasons. Has anyone thought that JM may be a smoke screen. LE may also be looking at other POI's and as long as the trend appears to have everyone looking at JM, they will continue with their investigation. There are questions in my mine as to some of the data related to this case. Peace.

It did cross my mind but I have never ever known of one case in which LE has actually gone to such lengths to pretend there is another suspect, publicly. I've seen where they pretend someone is NOT the suspect, but to actually name a fake POI and harass that person in that way, just to throw the real suspect off the scent? Unconscionable. Logically, I don't see it, when thinking about it for a moment, ya' know?

I think an innocent person would refuse to come forward if they're cynical. I've never been in trouble with the law, aside from a speeding ticket in 2002, but there's no way I'll ever come forward and talk to the police about any felony crime if it looks like it could somehow be pinned on me. Take polygraphs, for example. Innocent people sometimes fail polygraphs. That makes them look even more guilty. But if they pass a polygraph, it still doesn't necessarily clear them, since guilty people sometimes pass polygraphs. And I'm not even black. If I was black, being called a "" and "guilty as Hell" on Websleuths and elsewhere, in addition to being painted as a career criminal by the police chief based on my 2002 speeding ticket, I'd probably just clam up, go hide at granny's, change my photo to a black rectangle, etc.

You are not a typical person though. All we can do is try to profile based on what we know about this particular person and what we know about what is usual behavior. If we find that this guy had some experience with the justice system, is particularly bright and political about racism and rights, etc., then it changed things. Otherwise, I fall back on what is typical.

Failing to come forward isn't typical. Regardless of race.

 

[RSC]

I never once had to look further than 20 year olds on campus to buy weed, and I went to a small school.

A minor does not need to meet up with a 32 year old man in order to score alcohol for the evening. She could have met up with a 21 year old frat guy to do that. One does need to meet up with a 32 year old man, perhaps to score a bag a weed. Maybe she was alone because she was the one tasked with bringing the weed.

 

[possumheart]

There might be something to the exercising off excesses which was mentioned up thread by a few sleuthers (in no way meant to be unfriendly to the victim):