VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

[Justice101]

The police are usually 2 or 3 steps ahead of us. They knew she was spotted in the restaurant WHEN THE FIRST Irish Pub video was posted... tips probably came in then! But they continued on with gathering video evidence to roll out every other day to show she was heading that way...remember when they moved the bloodhounds to near the parking garage like on day 3? So, ASSUMING that LE is still 2 steps ahead of us, they might have eyewitness that they both left together and that the car that was searched had evidence that she was in the car. Showing the car to the public, they are hoping they get tips on when and where it was seen early Sat morning.

 

[Fireweed]

Not true.
They went to bar together ... and she has never been seen again.
Now the story stops.

Not only that, but after witnesses saw JL's car drive off, there is no more Hannah on any surveillance video, whereas earlier in the night she was popping up all over the place.

 

[leilarose68]

No that would be proof. A girl her age who has been missing for a week after last being seen walking off with some man at 2 am is evidence that she has met with foul play. It is not proof, but it certainly is evidence.

no, it's not evidence of a crime. they don't have all the footage. they don't know that hannah got into the car with this guy. evidence is that which helps to prove something. anything could have happened after they left that bar. all it's evidence of is that they were together at that time.

 

[hambirg]

And that would be a crime.

Yes it would. Or they could have separated ways, as he claims, and she wandered off and died of alcohol poisoning, or was abducted by someone else. Until they can show she was in his car or at his apartment LE can't do much. They have no evidence that JM commited a crime. As of right now, they might or might not have evidence that a crime was commited. I think they know the text was sent from somplace other than where it claimed she was. That is probably pretty good evidence that foul play has occured. . .BUT they have NO evidence that JM committed a crime. Just the what is not enough. . .you need the who too.

 

[Zinn]

i don't think they said he was a cooperative witness 'for now'. did they? i think they just called him a cooperative witness. i mean, there is a big difference between the two statements.

Sorry, I couldn't recall the exact wording but just found this quote from Capt. Gary Pleasants: "Right now we're seeing him as a cooperative witness."

 

[borndem]

I am curious to those here who think that no crime has been committed, what do you think happened to Hannah?

I definitely think the crime of murder has been committed against Hannah. Too much time has elapsed... I hope she may just be injured and amnesic in a hospital outside of C'ville, but in reality, I think we have lost her.

 

[TTF14]

If she was on X, she could have collapsed behind a dumpster or something. or ended up in the river. not necessarily a crime. I still think she was at 14th and Wertner and was assaulted by whomever was on a rampage last weekend. The assault could have killed her or made her incapable of getting home. maybe she was trying to find help and got even more lost. this could easily be an accident.

Sorry, was it reported that those two reported rapes were by the same person?

 

[elmomom]

LE may have a little more than just what we know. I do not think the guys in charge of this are being dumb or vindictive or just irresponsibly picking on an innocent man. They seem competent to me and that they know what they are doing.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
There are NUMEROUS people that have been released as not guilty after being incarcerated for years based on LE being convinced that they had the right guy. since the use if DNA it happens all the time. I am hoping that Longo will do the right thing, but not convinced that he is. Releasing the POI's ID the manner in which he did ("I can't tell you but you can figure it out" way) is not really ethical, to me. He may be convinced that this is the guy. AND HE MAY BE THE GUY. BUT, what if he isn't? Now you have labelled this person for the rest of his life. It isn't a chance I think he should have taken, no matter how convinced he was.

 

[missgulfsouth]

How do you know she didn't then attempt to return home, decided to sleep in some woods, and die of hypothermia? Maybe she committed suicide later that night.

You keep saying it's evidence, I am saying it's not.

Evidence would be her body and then the manner of death. The manner of death is the evidence used to determine whether a crime has been committed.

I'd say his actions make it appear as though a crime occurred. He was the last to see her. If he dropped her off or whatever, why is he not sharing his side of the story? I'm a little concerned about that.

 

[leilarose68]

Not true.
They went to bar together ... and she has never been seen again.
Now the story stops.

and plenty of things could have happened after hannah left the bar that have nothing to do with the dreads guy.

 

[leilarose68]

I'd say his actions make it appear as though a crime occurred. He was the last to see her. If he dropped her off or whatever, why is he not sharing his side of the story? I'm a little concerned about that.

because he's very close to the crime + is thus, listening to his lawyer like any smart person does.

 

[SwampMama]

No that would be proof. A girl her age who has been missing for a week after last being seen walking off with some man at 2 am is evidence that she has met with foul play. It is not proof, but it certainly is evidence.

As seen in the Jaren Lockhart case, there was video of who she walked off with and witnesses who had been approached and invited to go "party" with them at a private party (those people had declined). That was the last seen of Jaren before her body was found a few days later. The suspects were quickly identified, claimed they didn't remember what happened that night/refused to answer questions and were not able to be charged with her death until TWO years later. They have never yet been able to identify the actually crimes scene where she was killed.

 

[missgulfsouth]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
There are NUMEROUS people that have been released as not guilty after being incarcerated for years based on LE being convinced that they had the right guy. since the use if DNA it happens all the time. I am hoping that Longo will do the right thing, but not convinced that he is. Releasing the POI's ID the manner in which he did ("I can't tell you but you can figure it out" way) is not really ethical, to me. He may be convinced that this is the guy. AND HE MAY BE THE GUY. BUT, what if he isn't? Now you have labelled this person for the rest of his life. It isn't a chance I think he should have taken, no matter how convinced he was.

What do you think LE should have done? He was the last person to be seen with a woman who has gone missing. And he is aware that they want to speak with him. And he is silent. If he is labeled for the rest of his life, I'd say he brought some of that upon himself.

 

[Fireweed]

If being missing is evidence of a crime, you should look up Leanne Bearden's case. She was missing for weeks after going out for a walk. Everyone said her husband killed her, when in fact she committed suicide in someone's backyard.

Being missing is evidence of a crime. You do not understand the difference between evidence and proof. A woman going missing after a walk is evidence that a crime has occurred. It is not proof that a crime has occurred, but it is evidence. It could be wrong. It could be wrong, but that does not mean that at the time it was not evidence that a crime may have occurred.

HG being missing for a week is evidence that a crime has occurred. It is not proof, of course, but it is evidence. If it were not evidence of a crime, then LE would not be searching cars and apartments and analyzing surveillance video. Clearly, LE involved in HG's disappearance believe there is evidence that a crime occurred.

Again, evidence and proof are not the same thing, and evidence can turn out to be wrong later, but when a woman goes missing under unusual circumstances, that is evidence that there has been some sort of criminal activity. It is not proof, and it is not infallible, but it is evidence.

 

[Claudia]

I'd say his actions make it appear as though a crime occurred. He was the last to see her. If he dropped her off or whatever, why is he not sharing his side of the story? I'm a little concerned about that.

He did speak with police the morning of the search, right? Perhaps he did give them his side of the story and we just don't know about it. Maybe?

 

[yupikgirl]

LE stated at the press conference they have lots of stuff they aren't releasing. They said they were releasing what they could so we could understand why they ended up at the apartment they did (not those exact words). LE encouraged media to release his name IMO


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[missgulfsouth]

because he's very close to the crime + is thus, listening to his lawyer like any smart person does.

We're back to the smart bit again. And I am still agreeing to disagree.

 

[absentia]

and plenty of things could have happened after hannah left the bar that have nothing to do with the dreads guy.

exactly. I don't want to assume anything negative about Hannah, but something was up way before she met up with DBG. She was on a mission. Why? What was it? She very well could have died in DBG's presence by no wrong doing of his. what he did after that would be suspect since it didn't involve a hospital.
I think the description of whomever was responsible for the other assaults that occurred right where HG said she was lost would be important.

 

[leilarose68]

Being missing is evidence of a crime. You do not understand the difference between evidence and proof. A woman going missing after a walk is evidence that a crime has occurred. It is not proof that a crime has occurred, but it is evidence. It could be wrong. It could be wrong, but that does not mean that at the time it was not evidence that a crime may have occurred.

HG being missing for a week is evidence that a crime has occurred. It is not proof, of course, but it is evidence. If it were not evidence of a crime, then LE would not be searching cars and apartments and analyzing surveillance video. Clearly, LE involved in HG's disappearance believe there is evidence that a crime occurred.

Again, evidence and proof are not the same thing, and evidence can turn out to be wrong later, but when a woman goes missing under unusual circumstances, that is evidence that there has been some sort of criminal activity. It is not proof, and it is not infallible, but it is evidence.

being missing isn't evidence of a crime. someone could have gone missing and drowned. do you consider someone drowning (and not drowned by someone else) to be a crime? if you do, well, i don't really know what to say to you. you aren't really making sense.

 

[C.Hound]

I don't know if the description changed in a more recent press conference, but two days ago WG was referred to as a "cooperative witness for now" per LE:

'Person of Interest' Sought in Disappearance of University of Virginia Student Hannah Graham
Sep 18, 2014, 5:30 PM ET
"The man [WG] called into the police tip line hours before the surveillance footage that showed him following Graham was released. He went to the police station at 10:15 p.m. Wednesday night.'Right now we're seeing him as a cooperative witness,' Capt. Gary Pleasants told ABC News referring to the man seen on the video. 'He told police that he was following Ms. Graham as she looked to be somewhat physically distressed and he wanted to make sure she got safely to wherever she was going,' police said in a statement."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-university-virginia-student-hannah-graham-man/story?id=25592387