VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #7

[Jmm124567]

maybe...there is one very clear copy of the McGrady vid floating around I watched last night- and of course I can't find it now. It seems she was distracted with her waistband and that could be why she trailed off the sidewalk, instead of drunken stumbling iwkwim...

It looks like she is actually putting her hands on her lower back and not playing with her waistband. I would imagine her lower back is a little sore from walking so long. My back gets sore after walking for a while and then I occasionally start rubbing my lower back with my hand while I walk.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Ok.. After reading and reading..

I think it's safe to say a few things.

1) police have evidence of some kind on JM, or else they wouldn't have been in his apartment.
2) Hannah was impaired at least some of the night to an extent
3) lots of news articles are mixing up information

I personally feel like this case has been very straight forward all along, and nowhere near as complicated as some are making it. Yes, some things do not match up yet, but that's mostly because of faulty news reporting.
The police don't just get handed search warrants for no reason. I can see maybe the car being a bit more of a Hunch warrant than the others, but to go into someone's house after finding cause in their vehicle? That's big. That's not a hunch or a tip.
So to me, no matter which way you spin the small details, the big picture is still straight forward.

I have followed many cases, and in pretty much every case that generates an active discussion, people will say how they have never seen a case like this/most interesting/extremely complex/craziest....and then fast forward a month or two later, and there is no one talking about the case anymore. I think people tend to slightly exaggerate when a case is hot, and perhaps in this case, even if not intentionally, people try to make the circumstances sound extremely sensational and fascinating to counteract any claims that the case is only getting the attention it is because Hannah is a missing white young woman.

 

[Jmm124567]

That's an excellent theory about the auto correct. Maybe she meant to say she was almost at that location, not AT that location. Very interesting! I think the POI told her he'd give her a ride home, which is near that location, correct?

Good point about the battery, too. I have always had Android phones but the older phones get, the less they hold a charge. Mine would never last all day anymore unless I have it turned off and I'm not using it. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that her battery could have just died.

Or maybe she was in JM's car wanting to get dropped off at 14th and Wertland which is where the original party was at in the apartments and maybe she sent the text before she was even there and said "lost at 14th and Wertland." She may have sent the text in advance before she got there because if she was in his car she was 5 minutes away at most so she may have just sent it before she was even there.

 

[msteach]

I think the only way she'd have had time to do that is if she did dual enrollment, which I just googled, and they do have that. Why?

They do have that in Virginia, but she was up in Fairfax County for HS and PVCC is down in C'ville...so I'd guess probably not. Why do you ask?

 

[steelman]

What I want to know more than anything is how these spur-of-the-moment, amatuer criminals, are able to hide bodies so well that hundreds and even thousands of people are unable to find them.

We see this in case after case in here.

Is there some sort of a massive flaw in the search methods ?

Is hiding an adult body so easy that any half-wit criminal can do it with little or no planning ?

I can't pull into an alley and take a whiz without some motorist driving by unexpectedly.

How are these types able to transport and dispose of someone so quickly and thoroughly, without detection, in a busy densely populated area ?

 

[andalso]

Are landfills being search?

This seems kind of obvious to me, I have to assume it is to LE also? I should/can make that assumption, right?

I realize it is a terrible thought, but we know by now...reality can be harsh.

And, there is a dumpster is so close to the searched apartments.

 

[TravelingBug]

Heres a thought I havent seen anyone touch upon.

<snip>

Im wondering if the drink she supposedly had in Tempo was enough to cause alcohol poisoning considering the possible factors above.

Purely speculating here but if she passed out on JLM's car and died either on route or in his apartment it would certainly explain his reluctance to speak to police.

Something very similar happened in the erotic asphyxiation death of Taylor Behl when Benjamin Fawley panicked and dumped her unburied body in a shallow ravine.

Not blaming the victim here, we were all young once and all of us have done stupid things, just trying to cover all possible scenarios.

I'm sure that's possible!

It happened just last year in McLean, VA. Emylee Lonczak - though it was drugs and not alcohol.

She passed out in the car on the way back home and they were going to dump her body en route back to McLean, but ended up taking her back to the home of one of the friends. After she died, they eventually dragged her to where she was found outside.

One friend, who now faces federal criminal charges, later told investigators that he was with the McLean High School student when she died, court papers say. Fearing he would get in trouble, he said, he dragged her body outside and left it near some shrubs. He covered it with a screen window.

Note him emphasizing his concern over what LE might think was based on having a previous history and being afraid that he'd be in more trouble because he was on probation. (He had a ton of drug charges and at least one drunkenness related one also)

He told a detective he believed Lonczak had “died in his presence,” and he was concerned about getting in trouble because he was on probation for other offenses, according to the affidavit. Court records show his probation stemmed from a trespassing charge.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...7e724a-8ab1-11e3-916e-e01534b1e132_story.html

At his sentencing:

Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Ben’Ary argued Alifom, 20, had a “classic criminal mind-set,” and his selfish fear of being found in violation of his probation led him to discard his friend’s body “like a piece of garbage.”

For his part, Alifom tearfully apologized to Lonczak’s family members and his own. He said he was “ashamed” of what he had done and was trying to turn away from a life of drug abuse.

“I meant no harm, and yet what I did was very irresponsible,” Alifom said. “That’s not who I am.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...fb3cce-dac0-11e3-bda1-9b46b2066796_story.html

There was far, far, far less attention on that case (heck, only 39 posts on it on WS!) and it got really ugly (and racial) in most of the very few places it was discussed much online.

 

[steelman]

Are landfills being search?

This seems kind of obvious to me, I have to assume it is to LE also? I should/can make that assumption, right?

I realize it is a terrible thought, but we know by now...reality can be harsh.

And, there is a dumpster is so close to the searched apartments.

I've suggested that possibility in many of the cases in here, especially where small young children are involved. It is almost always poo-poo'd and dismissed as if it is the dumbest idea anybody has ever heard of. I'm sure you will see what I am talking about as this thread expands.

I have no idea why it is seen as being a ridiculous theory.

I think part of it is because knee-jerk critics can only put it in context by visualizing the small, roll-around dumpster in front of their house. That is NOT what I am talking about. I am referring to those large, steel dumpsters you see behind dollar stores, supermarkets, furniture stores and most convenient stores.
They are everywhere. Those are not furnished by the city to be used by the residents. Those are furnished by private companies, have regularly scheduled pick-up days, some are gated off but many are not. People like to rifle through them to look for large moving boxes and the like.

I suspect that this is the method that is used to dispose of a lot of these bodies that are missing. However, when you suggest the idea, it is almost immediately dismissed as being absurd. Watch and see.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

If he dropped her off at the intersection near her apartment, why wouldn't he simply say so. She is missing, and it would be tremendously helpful of he would simply provide all the information he has about their interactions that night. Police can then focus on that area during a search.

And... If POI had driven HG from Tempo/mall parking spot to the intersection near her apartment... Wouldn't there have been some surveillance video footage from businesses along the route showing his car traveling that route?

:waitasec:

 

[Elley Mae]

Heres a thought I havent seen anyone touch upon.

By now most of us have seen the videos with Hannah running and moving at what appears to be an extremely rapid pace while intoxicated.

Were taught that physical activity helps us to sober up but as many drinkers can tell you this isnt always the case. Sometimes strenous physical activity (as in sex, running, or a fight) can speed up the bodies metabolism delivering even more alcohol to our system and making us even more drunk than we were before the activity. Its not uncommon for people to throw up at this stage and its believed that Hannah may have done so at McGradys.

Some drinks such as Red Bull and Vokda or Jager Bombs can also add to this. The energy boost from the drink counteracts the effects of the alcohol for a time and leads to a delayed reaction. This is why some states have talked about banning these kinds of drinks in bars and restaurants.

People did the same thing in the 50's and 60s with speed and alcohol and its been reported that mixing adderall and alcohol can have the same effects.

Some of the effects reported in the below article are eerily similar to the ones observed in HG that night.

http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/c/general/treatment?ic=pha&ic=pha

Im wondering if the drink she supposedly had in Tempo was enough to cause alcohol poisoning considering the possible factors above.

Purely speculating here but if she passed out on JLM's car and died either on route or in his apartment it would certainly explain his reluctance to speak to police.

Something very similar happened in the erotic asphyxiation death of Taylor Behl when Benjamin Fawley panicked and dumped her unburied body in a shallow ravine.

Not blaming the victim here, we were all young once and all of us have done stupid things, just trying to cover all possible scenarios.

bbm Did she have a drink at Tempo? I may have missed that. Is there a link? TIA

 

[Eileen730]

maybe...there is one very clear copy of the McGrady vid floating around I watched last night- and of course I can't find it now. It seems she was distracted with her waistband and that could be why she trailed off the sidewalk, instead of drunken stumbling iwkwim...

Just a thought.
She wasn't carrying a purse sooo maybe she had her debit card or money tucked into her waistband of her pants. I have done it. You also keep checking to make sure its still there.

 

[TTF14]

I've suggested that possibility in many of the cases in here, especially where small young children are involved. It is almost always poo-poo'd and dismissed as if it is the dumbest idea anybody has ever heard of. I'm sure you will see what I am talking about as this thread expands.

I have no idea why it is seen as being a ridiculous theory.

I think part of it is because knee-jerk critics can only put it in context by visualizing the small, roll-around dumpster in front of their house. That is NOT what I am talking about. I am referring to those large, steel dumpsters you see behind dollar stores, supermarkets, furniture stores and most convenient stores.
They are everywhere. Those are not furnished by the city to be used by the residents. Those are furnished by private companies, have regularly scheduled pick-up days, some are gated off but many are not. People like to rifle through them to look for large moving boxes and the like.

I suspect that this is the method that is used to dispose of a lot of these bodies that are missing. However, when you suggest the idea, it is almost immediately dismissed as being absurd. Watch and see.

Many apartment complexes have huge trash compactors, too. I just moved from a complex like this, and disposing of a body in one of those would be incredibly easy, especially if there are no cameras.

 

[Eileen730]

What I want to know more than anything is how these spur-of-the-moment, amatuer criminals, are able to hide bodies so well that hundreds and even thousands of people are unable to find them.

We see this in case after case in here.

Is there some sort of a massive flaw in the search methods ?

Is hiding an adult body so easy that any half-wit criminal can do it with little or no planning ?

I can't pull into an alley and take a whiz without some motorist driving by unexpectedly.

How are these types able to transport and dispose of someone so quickly and thoroughly, without detection, in a busy densely populated area ?

Many times the missing person is found in an area already shearched. That ONE spot was just overlooked.
When a person goes missing how do u know where to look? By statements given by this that least saw them? What if they are not telling the truth then LE is on a wild goose chase.
A search is only as good as the information it receives.

 

[blefuscu]

In retrospect I kind of find that offensive that he did not make an attempt to answer the reporters questions about those 2 assaults. Yes it was not about Hannah but it was 2 other women, someones daughters, and the public deserves to know about those crimes as much as missing Hannah.

Has anyone been arrested for those crimes yet?

To be honest though Longo made it perfectly clear at the start of the presser that it was all about Hannah. Therefore he may have thought that talking about other incidents would take away from the purpose of THAT particular press conference.

 

[Eileen730]

Walking alone on campus? There are apps for that

TapShield, founded by UF alumnus and former Student Body President Jordan Johnson, allows students to summon help with a tap of a finger. When “tapped,” the app sends the user’s caller identity and GPS location to local police. Students can also silently communicate with police through messages, and view and report local crime.

http://college.usatoday.com/2014/07/18/walking-alone-on-campus-there-are-apps-for-that/

 

[TravelingBug]

Wow this thread is moving fast.

POI coaches youth football which means he can pass a criminal background check. He has to have one every year.

Since it's a private Christian school and he wasn't an official coach but was a volunteer, I wonder if that actually happened regularly? Do you know if that's the case there/with him?

As if he's a volunteer, wouldn't that mean they run ALL volunteers annually (which would seem to have to include any parent volunteers also, no?)? That seems like it could be a heck of a lot of people, even at a smaller school.

 

[TTF14]

Since it's a private Christian school and he wasn't an official coach but was a volunteer, I wonder if that actually happened regularly? Do you know if that's the case there/with him?

As if he's a volunteer, wouldn't that mean they run ALL volunteers annually (which would seem to have to include any parent volunteers also, no?)? That seems like it could be a heck of a lot of people, even at a smaller school.

Having loads of experience with small Christian schools, I am going to venture to guess the answer is NO. Volunteers are cleared once.

This is all in my personal experience and I realize all schools would be different.

 

[steelman]

Many times the missing person is found in an area already shearched. That ONE spot was just overlooked.
When a person goes missing how do u know where to look? By statements given by this that least saw them? What if they are not telling the truth then LE is on a wild goose chase.
A search is only as good as the information it receives.

BBM-------so there IS a flaw in the search methods. Thanks.

 

[TravelingBug]

Walking alone on campus? There are apps for that

TapShield, founded by UF alumnus and former Student Body President Jordan Johnson, allows students to summon help with a tap of a finger. When “tapped,” the app sends the user’s caller identity and GPS location to local police. Students can also silently communicate with police through messages, and view and report local crime.

http://college.usatoday.com/2014/07/18/walking-alone-on-campus-there-are-apps-for-that/

Interesting!

 

[achilton1987]

Agree. I think both the assessments of what friends should have done and assessments of what HG did are harmful unless specifically necessary for sleuthing. Know what I mean?

At the same time, I have a feeling some of her friends know more and are not coming forward. Someone knew at that small gathering where she was going to or seeing.